Curious for some anecdotal data from this board. If you're a 2nd/3rd year associate or higher, could I please survey y'all on:
- Your current title in PE
2. How long you've been in PE / How many years at current firm
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Expected timeline to VP promote / how long it took you to get to VP from assoc
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How long the average Assoc-VP promote cycle is for your firm
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How strong you / your Assoc-VP peers are
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Fund Size and jurisdiction/location (can be vague like HCOL US etc.)
Inspired by a little debate that happened with some associates at my shop. Debate was basically "3yrs is global standard and anything else means you are either a stud or a dud" vs. "3yrs cycle is not necessarily indicative of skillset at all". I skew to the former but don't really have as strong a view as the arguing junior associates did.
My answers:
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Associate
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Coming up on 3 yrs
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Expected at 3yr mark (been verbally guided to expect this)
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... 3 yrs. Have seen shorter and longer but most are 3.
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Reviews and guidance to expect promote suggest I am pretty good. The VPs are all quite strong in my view. I actually feel like I'm not of their caliber but that's another thread.
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Global MM with several industry focused verticals - ~$2bn in my vertical. HCOL in North America.
1. Associate
2. 4 Years / 4 Years at Current Firm (Did 2 Years as Analyst and Now at the 2 Year mark as Associate)
3. Expected at 5 year mark or 5.5 year at maximum (have been verbally guided); i.e 3 years to 3.5 years as Associate
4. ~3 years as Associate on average
5. Assoc-VP peers are very strong. I think I am in the middle of the pack. 3.5 years is likely given the VP level is very crowded so they want to phase it out a bit.
6. Megafund in one of their APAC offices
1. Senior Associate
2. 4 Years (2 Years Associate / 2 Years Senior Associate)
3. Expected at 5 year mark
4. Unclear small firm
6. LMM in HCOL in North America
This.
Question for you (and anybody under an Assoc->Senior Assoc program):
Is the Senior Associate meaningfully different from the Associate/VP roles it comes between? Would you say this is comparable to the 2+1 yr Assoc programs?
My shop is straight 3 year associate program, although not uncommon to see people gone after 2 yrs as an assoc. In my 3rd year I've gradually taken on increasing VP-esque responsibilities.
My guess is its different across funds but for me the senior associate program is pretty much a VP role (from a responsibilities perspective). I am leading diligence processes, coordinating / corralling consultants, negotiating directly with lenders and sellers and taking lead on certain legal docs (maybe a VP would take on more legal doc responsibility). I don't see a big difference in the roles other than compensation.
1. Associate
2. ~1.5 Years (technically first year associate under program but with off cycle start)
3. ~3.5 years (start in summer and promotion would come calendar year end of 3rd year)
4. ~3.5 years, it’s a standardized “up or out” program. Also requires incremental offer for 3rd year associate after 2 year program
5. Associate peers are all very strong and VPs that got the promo are excellent (very smart + hard working). I think I am bottom to mid bucket, not expecting to make VP (also will be headcount issues at that point) but hoping to stay for third year associate offer given COVID has really impacted my time
6. MF in the US
Analyst
1.5yrs (out of college)
Expecting another 1.5yrs to get to Associate
At my firm, analyst is 2.5-4yrs depending on performance, associate 2-4 years, senior associate 1-4 years then principal
Associates are very strong and can manage a deal with almost no supervision (no 2 and out, European fund)
Total fund size close do EUR 10bn, latest fund size about 2bn. Industry focused, Europe.
Carried interest is offered to analyst 2 and above.
Interesting stuff throughout your responses, given that on a superficial level our firms are seemingly similar in size and focus yet completely different from a staffing/structural perspective
Carry for Analyst 2 is wild to me.
Timelines also appear rather fluid - you could be 12 years before reaching principal. People have gone from Associate to MD at my firm in that time frame.
So is associates running deals with no supervision. Doesn't even happen at the VP level at my shop - you might be first line of defense in all deals and portco work and a general "herder of cats" as an associate, and you might manage the entire process from CIM to Definitive Agreement as VP, but always reporting up the chain at each level. One of my pet peeves actually is while I'm being given tasks and freedom and responsibilities, I'm not operating as independently as I'd like to be, and not given the platform to do so.
Yea, I think it's mostly a cultural difference between the US and European culture (non UK).
In the US, most people will do 2yrs IB and 2yrs PE, therefore, firms invest less in training junior as they are here to help the deal teams to manage the process / run the models and only a few will stay past the first 2 years.
At my firm people don't expect to leave at the 2 or 3 year mark, instead we get trained early on to be able to run smaller deals when associate with very light supervision from principal/MD.
As an analyst 1 I closed one bigger transaction in a team with 1 senior analyst/jr associate + principal + supervision from partner and one smaller deal where it was only me and a principal.
I like the fact that they give responsibilities to juniors, although it can be very stressful and I don't see myself ready for the "associate responsibilities" at the moment.
Carry is pretty small at my level but it's still an incentive to stay at the firm and it can make it difficult to leave down the line as you have to commit to new funds being raised every 3/4 years... Carry is optional for analysts - sr associates but most people take it then it's more or less mandatory for principals and above
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1. Associate 2
2. About 1.5 years
3. Expected timeline for me would be closer to 6 years, so another 4.5 if I decided to stay. I was explicitly told during my review that as someone that doesn't have a banking background, I'm on a slower trajectory
4. Theoretically, 2 years to Sr. Associate, then 2 years to VP, with an additional year in each case for those who don't meet performance criteria. I've been told I'm on the slowest trajectory given my background (which begs the question as to why I was hired in the first place, but I digress), and as such I don't expect to stay for much longer. The firm is already very crowded at the top so I don't think there's a VP spot for me regardless of performance, and both guys that were eligible for VP this year were passed over.
5. Mixed bag. We operate similar to a family office so as an external hire I'm competing with direct relatives and family friends of senior guys.
6. MM in medium COL city (Chicago/Dallas/Miami/etc)
Sounds less than ideal. In the context of #4 and #5, what's your 3-5 year plan?
Probably going to move to a smaller/startup fund where I can hopefully negotiate some carry/equity up front and where there's more room for growth. I actually have a couple of opportunities right now that look promising.
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