Burnout
I have been working in CRE for a little over 3 years (2 years in consulting previously), and I’m feeling burnt out.
I work as a GSE underwriter, which I understand from the forums might not be typically a heavy work position, but it feels like this year has been a lot personally. I consider myself very efficient and if I work outside of normal hours (8-6) it was from dicking around during the day or a tight timeline, but this past year (even pre-COVID) has been a lot. I’ve been pretty consistently working 55 hours a week (not including morning/night emails or the occasional weekend logon) and unlike normal, I am usually working constantly the whole time and a lot of the time I work though or miss lunch.
Right now my typical workload is something like this:
- leading underwriting for 3/4 transactions on 30-45 day timelines
- performing analyst level work on anywhere from another 2-6 transactions
- working on a side project to revamp our company agency model
- training our new analysts
I come from a blue collar family, so I am already earning more than what I thought was a good lifetime goal (90k salary/35k bonus - high COL market), so it just feels like I’m churning to just keep getting more responsibility and work.
Am I just naive thinking people don’t actually work this much at other shops? Deal stress levels are high and I feel like I’d be better off working in a role that had longer timelines and that would be less stressful since I’m less focused on getting to crazy earning levels like some people.
Yeah, I would say there were occasional weeks in the past where it was straight up a 40 hr week, but I haven’t had a week like that in over a year. I don’t know if that is specific to my shop or what though since I know lending is generally down, but we are about to hit our growth goal before Q3 ends with a short staff most of the year. I also miss being able to actually go on inspections to breakup the time in the office
So, I'm going to go ahead and say what I am thinking after reading your post..... You are bored with your job.
I don't think the hours you are talking about are that bad or unusual for someone at your stage of a career (go post this in the IB forum....), but the fact that you are counting them is the issue. If you really loved what you did, you wouldn't care or complain the same way. You would find it to exciting. In fairness, GSE UW is not for everyone, and compared to other roles, these are better hours. I'd guess the hours in a GSE shop get better with promotions/seniority (but I can't speak from personal experience), but I don't think that will help you much. If you aren't loving it, it will feel like drudgery, even if its a strict 8-5, m-f, 40 hr work week with hr for lunch.
You use the phrase "deal stress", you may just not be best suited for transnational roles. Perhaps you can transfer over to portfolio management, compliance, risk management, or something else outside of the transactional side of the GSE you work for. In reality, some love the pressure of deals, others hate it. Nothing wrong with this and frankly your career will be far more successful the sooner you find the right fit; plenty of non-transactional roles are well paid and have pathways to promotion.
I think these are actually some fair points. I would say I am somewhat bored. The most creative I have to get on something is when a deal is fucked up so it is stressful to fix it and otherwise it feels monotonous. I am at the point where I feel like I’ve learned most of the stuff I feel like I can from the job, so a lot of the work I can do mentally and then I dread writing up everything.
I think the transaction life is definitely stressful too, but I’m wondering if portfolio/asset management would just be more boring? I don’t have a ton of experience interacting with our teams for that.
I wouldn’t compare myself to IB, because I knew specifically I’d hate that from just the hours alone. Id say I’ve been more consistently at 55 hr weeks with many individual weeks getting closer to 65-70, and I personally don’t see how people sustain those hours actually working during the full time vs working more like 50 hours but waiting around, taking breaks, shooting the shit with coworkers, etc for the other 20. Maybe I’m wrong though?
^This is one of the smartest things said on WSO! Yet somehow IB becomes the baseline for a lot of things finance/real estate. And yes, their long hours are in part of a lot of "waiting" for things to returned or given to them (from MDs, lawyers, clients, etc.), it is def not all productive time.
As to what you would find boring vs. exciting is really hard to say, and very personal. I don't know the debt space all that well beyond origination, so I would talk to friends in those departments where you work or elsewhere. I will say that the 'thrill' of transactions gets overrated. On the RE investment space, people think "acquisitions" is the coolest/most exciting place and asset mngt is dull/boring when viewed from the outside (or as a student); I really don't think this is close to true. Every dept/role has ups and downs. I would talk to people and really understand the daily cycle of these roles, I think you might like them more than you think. At least worth investigating.
If I am reading your post correctly, it looks like you are leading 4 deals and acting as an analyst on another 6 deals!? So you are currently staffed on 10 lives deals with 45 day timelines!? From my experience working at a DUS underwriter that is a large workload. I am sure there are other factors at play, but that would become a lot to handle for an extended period of time.
I know you're not alone feeling the way you do right now. The lack of vacation options has left a lot of people feeling really burnt out. Is there anyway you can take a week to recharge?
Take a week off asap. Burnout is incredibly common even in the best of times - and with COVID this is far from it. Even if you have nowhere to go, sit at home and relax for a week.
There's no real utility in comparing your work hours or your stress levels to someone else. The important thing is that you, right now, need a refresh.
Take it.
Are you me? I've had to switch to GSE underwriting since COVID hit and I am staffed on 8 live deals with the same turn times as you. Literally have not had time to relax at work since I switched, with steady 60-70 hour weeks (I'm used to that, but it's a pandemic ffs). I really cannot wait until I hear back on my MSRE apps for the spring because I am to the point where I actually despise some people at my firm as well as the overall culture. If someone pushes me the wrong way, I will pull the grad school card out of my backpocket and quit right there - that's how bad it's gotten for me.
The whole wfh thing has made it even worse and I honestly feel like I am depressed, but don't know if I actually am. I echo others and say that you should consider some time off. Thankfully I am moving apartments next Wednesday and took off Thursday and Friday so I have a 6-day weekend which is much needed. I suggest you do something similar because no job or company is worth potentially sacrificing your mental health.
Time off.
right now.
Take a break. Seriously.
Eaque molestiae omnis ipsam nihil. Omnis et ullam eius quia repudiandae pariatur. Recusandae aut et harum aspernatur corrupti. Veritatis ut laudantium repudiandae vel. Sint expedita id est tempore quo sit quis non.
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