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QuadReal is a pension so if we're counting that:
CPP
PSP
Ivanhoe Cambridge (Otera is the lending arm)
Oxford Properties
HOOPP
AIMCO
Cadillac Fairview
QuadReal
These are some of the largest pensions. In Canada, each has a different mandate. Some may have an obligation to invest in Canada / their respective jurisdictions. Some like CPP and PSP may do LP style investing in Canada, whereas shops like Cadillac and QuadReal fully own and operate their assets. Internationally, all of them are LPs through fund investments and JVs.
Other major real estate shops:
Brookfield Asset Management
KingSett Capital
Fiera Capital
Slate Asset Management
Crestpoint
BGO
Blackstone (opened TO office in 2022)
Starlight
From what I know, KingSett pays well but wlb will get hit. Starlight pays shit for juniors. Brookfield does more out of its NYC office. Fiera is based out of Montreal, has TO offices, pay is pretty trash there too.
Wow, thanks for the detailed breakdown - very helpful.
What have you heard about Slate and Crestpoint?
Slate has a good rep and I think pay is good (can't confirm). Crestpoint is owned by CC&L, they have good JV partners so that can be an indicator of doing well. Maybe others can chime in for more.
Great shops, great reputations, exceptionally smart people. KingSett and Slate are both known for terrible WLB cause their principals are absolute hardos (look at Jon Love's posts on LinkedIn for a sense of what kind of culture that guy would create). KingSett is also all-in on office to this day so we'll see how that pans out for them.
Crestpoint is very reputable, top shop nationally for sure. To my knowledge they do less opportunistic/value-add investing than the others and generally have a more conservative approach.
Can't comment on current comp but historically KingSett has been one of if not the best paying firms. Slate I have heard is similar (have never heard somebody say their comp is bad contrary to what the other response says).
Great list and agree with above. I would add Hazelview to the list of other major shops.
You've also got a ton of great REITs to choose from but for traditional REPE I think that about covers the major players. Lots of smaller shops kicking around as well.
talked to some recruiters, in my opinion kingsett is below market. 100k base for 2nd year analyst / associate is what i heard.
what would market pay be if 100k base for a 2nd year is considered low?
rephrase your question
How many hours of my week do I have to give to Kingsett to make $100k?
Never worked there, but it sounds high... like 60ish I'm assuming. Thats $32 an hour.
You can make $100k and 2nd year analyst working at a lifeco or on the lending side making 80-90% of that salary for 35 hours per week (nearly half of kingsett).
Oh and you probably don't have to wear a suit either!
You don't judge market wage based on hours otherwise IB pay would be trash. $100k is above market salary as a 2nd year analyst (LifeCos do not pay 2nd years $100k, nor do pension funds, unless it's a post-MBA hire).
I can also promise you, as somebody who works regularly with pension funds and LifeCos that you do not work 35 hours a week in a transactions-oriented role at those companies. It's probably 45-50 hours on average but you're still pushing 60 hours/week in crunch time. Those shops also generally require far more travel than most of the REPE/dev shops in Canada because you're investing capital all over the country or even internationally.
You're right on the suit though, such a lame, old school requirement from KingSett and Slate.
Pension funds have such a great reputation for their wlb and compensation. I'm at REPE doing AM/PM job. What's the best way to be in pension funds? Thanks so much.
They recruit regularly, either through LinkedIn/job forums, their website, or recruiters. Just apply.
One thing I think people should know before getting into jobs are pension funds or LifeCos is that the job is very different from what you would do in REPE. Generally speaking, pension funds have a million times more red tape to cut through to get a deal done and much stricter reporting requirements. A huge portion of the Investments roles at these companies are meticulous record keeping, reviewing appraisals, checking off boxes that your organization requires, and general asset/portfolio management work.
Not to say they aren't phenomenal investors, but it's not the same kind of rapid-fire, in-depth analysis investing that a GP or typical REPE fund is doing. They rely heavily on their operating partners to do the heavy lifting and are mostly just asking questions, creating IC memos based on info provided from partners, and reviewing deliverables. Your negotiations are more focused on JV agreements to protect yourself if the GP messes up, and less so on structuring the individual transactions with sellers.
How many hours do they work at KingSett and what's pay like there?
I will add about LaSalle and Tricon. LaSalle has amazing culture and great wlb, but the pay is low. Tricon has crazy hours (~60 hours). I was asked if I like long hours during interview. In return, their comp is very high.
The best place in Canada is pension funds.
what does comp look like?
60 hours is not crazy hours whatsoever... At most shops mentioned on this thread so far other than the pension funds you are going to work 50-60 hours on average without question.
What was comp at Tricon?
Quoted by HR this week - Associate 1 is 150 - 160 base with 25% bonus.
what does Tricon pay? how does it compare to pension funds?
What's Tricon's comp like?
No idea. HR never told me anything.
What is Lasalle comp like?
DM me
Crestpoint pays ~$65-70k first year.
Anybody have data points for other firms?
Wait what? It’s that low? From a reliable source?
I’m just shocked since they’re considered a top fund.
Yup this is real. Its first year for investment team
A friend of mine started at Cushman beginning the summer of 2022. The pay was 70K.
I am a Canadian expat living in London but am considering a move back in the next few years.
I am currently in development at the associate / senior associate level. The REPE salaries are giving me a bit of a scare as they are 30 - 50% less than London! Does anybody in the forum have insight on how development salaries compare to REPE in Toronto?
Can you do an AMA about your expat experience? Tons of canadians looking to move out to Europe, some on this forum I'm sure.
Did you do that young worker program that Canada UK has? Basically guaranteed 1 year visa if you're under 35 plus you can extend it a year I believe. Curious ,thanks!
I'd be happy to, do I just start a new thread and call it AMA?
I've not heard of the 1 year visa,
There is a 2 year "Youth Mobility" visa that works if you are under 30: https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility
There is also a 2 year "High Potential" visa that you can get if you went to a number of Universities (a few of the better Canadian ones are on here): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list/high-potential-individual-visa-global-universities-list-2021
There two visas are a good way to move here but I don't think either help you get permanent residency. In order to get permanent residency, you need to move to a Tier 2 visa, which is sponsored by your company: https://www.gov.uk/skilled-worker-visa
Development is slightly lower than REPE. Typical associate range is $110-130k, 20-40% bonus. As with anything else, there are exceptions, but that's market.
Comp is dogshit in Canada. Somewhat surprised to hear salaries in London are that much higher, but currently working in the US and it's the same story. All-in Associate 1 comp in LA/SF is $200K+ CAD all-day.
is Sales & Trading any different in Canada ?
Because I'm trying to move from France. I also heard that Paris pays more than London now when considering the cost of life.
Responded in a thread above and thought I'd repost in case anyone was interested.
___
Just finished up recruiting for a dev shop in Toronto that pays at/slightly above market. Was contacted through a headhunter who provided what seemed to be fairly reasonable salary bands. I can echo some guidance as to salary ranges for junior levels.
Analyst out of UG - $70-75k + 10-15% bonus. Anything higher is super fortunate. Have multiple friends in the industry that can confirm.
Analyst 1-2 years exp. - $85-90k + 10-15% bonus. This is the range that I landed in after 1 year working FT.
Associate - $110-120k + 10-20% bonus.
Obviously YMMV, and it is also very shop-dependent, but salaries in Toronto are obviously not what they are in New York/London. I know a lot of firms are offering additional incentives to juniors. Mine, for example, has a relatively meaningful profit sharing program that begins after 1 year at the company.
brutal salaries TBH in canada.
freelance out to the USA and get a +35% premium on your wage for doing nothin!
$80 USD is $107 CAD
How does it work? What about work visa?
For UG pay if you have internships experience wth the company already or at least 2 internships in the industry would that number go up at all?
No because you probably need those internships to even get your foot in the door.
Everybody in this thread complaining about salaries - Canada is not the US and Toronto is not NYC. People are not compensated the same way in Canada in any industry, IB and PE are the same boat, salaries are generally nowhere near their US counterparts.
Thanks both, that's very helpful
Seems like the spread between London and Toronto is slightly smaller for development - especially with how low the pound is these days!
Normal associate level here is £70k - £100k (it's a very wide range with how salaries are moving) with 20% - 40% bonus. I am in the middle of the base range but have promote on my deals, which makes up for it.
Any ideas about the comps for analysts & associates at large pension funds?
I work as a Broker for some of these Shops. Kingsett is my major client.
I have brought them a $25M Development site & brought over 5 buyers for their assets. So I know them well.
Kingsett employees a bunch of kind hearted and ethical people. I like their culture and they are the first guys I go to when I got a deal. CPP is a pain in the A** because they got a few SNOBS at the senior level who flaunt their positions. Oxford is a great place and more in line with a corporate structured firm.
Kingsett's bread and butter is income producing assets, they don't develop 90% of the time. Instead do partnerships or sell the newly zoned & site plan approved sites.
Brookfield RE is top dog. They are a great firm to learn & look at these $1B+ assets.
But if you want to learn the ropes and nitty gritty, go to a small shop. Small shops are great.
Thanks for the detailed info! What are some shops in your experience, to avoid?
Can only speak from POV as a broker bringing buyers & sellers to these funds for assets.
I spoke with the Head of CPP Canada for RE investments for a few of their assets. They're snobby so I stopped bringing them any deals. They are not motivated to execute on deals unless its done via a memo from their higher-ups.
Ivanhoe is not bad in terms of culture but their entrepreneurial spirit is not high. They are not motivated to look for deals unless its a memo from their higher-ups.
Marlin Springs is a decent shop - B tier.
CAPREIT is also decent
Forum Asset management is doing some unique transactions. Example they are converting calgary office into Residential and its not as easy as it sounds to be frank. Also they focus on student housing more so than Rental Housing.
I thought Brookfield's only RE group in Toronto was their AM team and not acquisitions/development?
Bump
Anyone heard anything about Greystar in Canada?
Does anyone have any insight into Greybrook? WLB & reputation in Toronto?
Good shop and reputation, very niche investment strategy (exclusively invest in condo development in Ontario and certain Florida markets the last time I checked). They're known to be a hands on partner and take interest in all aspects of the development process.
If you're more interested in fund management/investment strategy its probably not the best shop for you, but if you like their investment profile and want to get more exposure to the actual nuts and bolts of real estate they'd be great.
Can't speak to WLB and comp but I will say they seem to be hiring Asso/Sr Asso roles more than any other shop so maybe some churn issues?
Thank you!
You have to pronounce it “REPEH?”
Currently working for a small developer at the director level after being laid off last year from a prestigious US REPE firm (Associate). I've been here a few months and its not obviously as institutional. Will it be possible to transition back into the institutional investment level roles? Will they consider my current experience? (currently hiding) given the tough market conditions.
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