Columbia MSRED vs NYU MSRE for MF REPE
Second year Ibanker here looking to make the move to REPE. I am looking around at MSRE/D programs, and I am interested in either NYC or DC markets.
My question is, which of the above programs (Columiba, NYU, maybe Georgetown) will put me in the best seat for Analyst/Associate roles at the larger REPE firms?
Realistically, none of them alone will get you there. But with your IB background and some networking efforts while in school, you can definitely make it work.
I'd say Columbia will give you the best chance (from what I've seen). NYU places all over the board due to the differences in experience within the classes. Can't speak on Georgetown but I know it's respected in DC and the East Coast.
Take a look at Cornell. Given your IB background, you would be able to network into a MF REPE summer internship and then leverage that into a return offer.
Cornell would want someone with only 2 years WE? Thanks for the reply.
Yes. They also accept about 1-2 undergrads per year.
Georgetown is very well regarded in DC, know a couple people there and they've placed at great firms in the area.
How great, though? On par with PERE Top 100?
Not being mean, genuine question.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
Curious about this as well, any marginal difference between the MBA / MPSRE(D)?
Not sure about placements in other markets, but firms like JBG Smith come to mind, let me look some people up.
Colombia has better reputation+career service,
I went to NYU RE and I learnt nothing ! I am stumbling in my career now ! I regret doing it and even my two classmates said same thing ! - TO AVOID- I even interviewed with a company in NYC and they told me they prefer to hire Colombia kids ! even though the person was NYU Alumni !
Wow this is the first I have heard of this. People say that program---even though it has a high acceptance rate, is better than Columbia for REPE.
Noted.
Thanks for your reply.
No, we even had a colombia Undergrad in our NYU Masters Program and he said same thing about his experience at Colombia Under vs NYU Schack !
Good luck ! I just feel I bought a branded degree, that is all, no gained skills, nothing ! I actually even regret doing this masters
Would’ve gotten hired if you can learn to spell colleges names. Must have done so much cocaine at NYU that you got the college and country all mixed up.
lol, when you can speak 4 languages at +B2/C1 Level, talk to me !
Okay, so this question gets asked often (OP you should read prior threads, always interesting...)... So, here is my quick defacto guide note on grad school in general..
More and more people are getting grad degrees (mainly MBAs but increasingly MSRE/Ds), thus the marginal advantage of getting one is falling as it won't make you that unique anymore. This has a clear flipside, it is also degrading the value of UG degrees at the same time. Simple but very real example. A job gets posted that says UG required but grad degree preferred or a 'plus'.... 100 applications come in, 20 have grad degrees and 80 are UG only... The firm may decide to only fish/sort the 20 with grad degrees and never even review the others. I can speak from authority to say this absolutely happens at some big name shops. They keep the flexibility to high UG only as a means of getting in a few known targets (like friends of friends, former interns, etc.). Thus, those without grad degrees are getting disadvantaged while those with are just holding steady.
This is really only a factor for maybe 5 at most 10 years from graduation, but it can be hypercritical in getting first jobs that can define a career. That is just the reality of it. Do you NEED a grad degree? No, hustle factor and performance can go a long way, but hyper competitive people are getting them (and keeping the debt that may come with it). Just the world we live in.
To your personal details, coming from I-banking should give you an advantage whatever route you take (I am presume you are the one saying you came from a "crappy unranked UG" with a 3.2 GPA). So, with that added detail, yeah a higher-end grad degree could be huge value-add play and absolutely reset your career trajectory. I am NYC based and can personally attest that grads of NYU/Columbia/Georgetown/Cornell/MIT (the main MSRE/D programs in the NE) work at all the big institutional CRE shops in all categories (pension/insurance invest mngt, REPE, development, IS/DE brokerage, and everything else). Those programs are big and have lots of grads and alumni. Do all get a big name job? NO, many work for smaller firms, there is ZERO guarantee of placement at some high end firm. But, if you work/network your ass off, you can be successful.
If you really want to work at a place like Blackstone/Starwood/KKR, then you probably should focus on admission to an M7 MBA. But in fairness, an M7 MBA is NOT a guarantee of that placement either, but your odds of getting an interview are markedly higher, especially with I-banking experience (that's supposedly the magic combo those firms want). If you can get in, and stomach paying for it, it's probably worthwhile. If you can't, then the MSRE/D route is worth considering. No guarantees in life, all a series of risk/reward decisions...
Separate question - I'm at an M7 b-school right now. How had is it to get a solid REPE gig? Had a small real estate investing company before B-school and was self employed. What would be the path to get there? (BB IBD associate -> REPE?). Or could I recruit from school.
Honestly, I am probably not the best person to address this. I didn't get a m7 MBA nor do I work in REPE. So my 2 cents for what they may be worth is that like all things, hiring needs can be cyclical. If REPE firms expect net outflows from funds or otherwise slow fundraising, they will slow OCR and other recruiting. If they are going to go on a "buying spree" due to a downturn (they tend to like distressed investing as a rule), then it may ramp up. This what gets lost in all this talk, the job market is not even year to year.
Sometimes tech is in massive need of MBAs, sometimes it's IB/finance, sometimes consulting, etc. So, you can probably tell based on how aggressive the OCR fall schedule looks (granted, I'm sure the pandemic fucks that up logistically, zoom info sessions and super days??). This is a weird time all around, so it's hard for me to say.
I would apply to any REPE spots advertised as well as to the BB banks, the best gig is the one you get. That said, the principal side of real estate absolutely loves the training and experience you get from the high pressure transactional world. Two years in I-banking or investment sales teaches one a lot, especially if exposed to a lot of deal flow. Those "stints" can payoff big time, but they are hell in terms of work/life balance.
Bottom line... the best job... is the one you get offered.
OP here.
First off I want to thank you for taking the time to give such an amazing reply.
With that being said:
What GRE score would make me competitive at Cornell/Columbia?
I am essentially sold on the fact that one of these two programs are my best bet. I consider myself an exceptionally good networker (thus the Ibanking exp. with the shit stats) and thus can see myself having a high chance of breaking in--especially from Cornell due to the summer internship.
Not sure about what score is needed, but it will be substantially easier compared to an m7 admission criteria. Columbia harder than Cornell for sure.
Please, please, please do not go for an MBA unless it's Wharton or Columbia. I think people are stuck in a mindset that was relevant 20 years ago. Hines doesn't only take from HBS anymore guys.
Take a look at the curriculums of any of the M7 MBAs, including Wharton or Columbia even. You will be paying a LOT of fucking money to learn about shit like organizational behavior. The vast majority of your courses will be outside of real estate. Even if you're a real estate expert (real estate is a vast world, no one should be claiming they know everything there is to know about real estate), would you rather have a review of real estate or pay money to take marketing? You also aren't going to be around likeminded people because of the way MBAs do their admissions now. It's all TFA, Peace Corps, engineers, military, etc. people these days, lots of cool people, but way fewer traditional finance types. I know someone will fight me on this without having firsthand knowledge, but this is a fact. Not saying it's better or worse in general, but if you want to go into real estate, you're paying for a worse network than you would've years ago.
RE programs are really underrated by this forum, maybe because they aren't as selective? The way I see it, the more focused curriculum and being around likeminded people is extremely beneficial. I know people at the RE programs at Harvard, MIT, Columbia, and Cornell who have gotten interviews and even offers at BX, Starwood and top developers like Hines, Related, Tishman. PERE 100 firms are 100% within reach. I'm sure the other programs are good too, but I know for an absolute fact that people at the schools I listed have gone to megafunds.
*Whoops accidentally replied to a comment I didn't mean to, but I'm too lazy to move this.
Meh. Lot of cross industry courses are pretty solid in my M7 MBA program that aren't traditionally offered in the real estate masters program. Also good to have a network of people from other industries, rather than just RE.
I go to a RE program at a school with an M7 MBA (narrows it down a ton) and we can take any of the MBA courses. I've actually found the quality of MBA classes to be pretty poor because learning is case based and most of the students don't have any background in finance, accounting, etc.
I agree that it's helpful to have a network of people from other industries, but I don't want to have an overwhelming majority of my network to be outside of my chosen industry. My network from undergrad can check the 'network of people from other industries' box.
I disagree with the "M7 or bust" theory with the MBA. REPE is very much a relationship business but more importantly it's a "what do you know and how can you help me?" type of business. I'm in an MBA program that's not top 10 but has a specialized real estate track, that's one of the best in the country. The entire curriculum is based on practical application: dissecting OMs, modeling, Argus training, etc. Grads come out of it super trained and can immediately add value to their firms. There are many alums working at some of the Top 100 PERE firms that were mentioned on this thread. I don't have any data to back this up, but I'd be willing to bet that the MDs and Dir. of Acqs at these firms will hire these well-trained grads vs. someone from Tuck (random example from the M7, nothing personal against Tuck!) just because they're M7.
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