For those of you with experience working at a larger multi merchant builders (thinking Mill Creek / Wood Partners / Alliance Resi. types.), how is the work life balance and comp compared to smaller development shops? What are your exit ops? I've worked for small, local entrepreneurial sponsors for almost my whole career with the idea that I would eventually replicate that model and go out on my own, but given the market right now I don't see that happening for a long time at this point. Now I might have an opportunity to jump to a larger, national development shop but I don't know that much about them if I'm being completely honest. Thank you in advance!
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I interned at one of the big ones not mentioned, then worked for two guys at a small firm who made their money at big name brand multi shops, and am friends with a number of MDs at those shops who came up through the ranks with me.
Our jobs truly weren’t that different. I never had to “count PTO days” or some of the other big company bullshit, but I also had to deal with a ton of small company bullshit that would never fly at a big shop. They got paid better salaries and bonuses, but I got paid promote from the time I was an associate so some years they’d come out ahead and some years I would. Their roles were more specific and regimented, mine was always more of an everything under the sun hodgepodge, but at the end of the day developing apartments is developing apartments. It’s always the same in some ways and always different in others.
When you are young, going with the big shop is better for your resume, but if you’re happy and making money where you are, there isn’t necessarily a reason to transfer laterally. I never would have left my small shop for a lateral move at a big shop—I only would have left had it been a clear step up.
Happy to answer any specific questions about my experience at a smaller shop or various buddies’ experiences at bigger shops, but for me, if I were you, it would come down to “is the specific new opportunity better?” and ignore the name on the shingle entirely.
Thank you for your response. I do get concerned about the bigger company BS that you mentioned (PTO days, etc.) since I've really never had to do that in my career. That aside, how are/was your buddies' work life balances and how "strict" is the corporate culture? Having worked at smaller shops, I am used to being available basically 24/7 and working weekends sometimes which I really do not mind, but with bigger shops I have a (perhaps irrational) fear of being stuck at my desk on a random slow Friday afternoon for no reason other than to keep up appearances.
The place where I interned was big on HR bullshit, but that could have just been because I was an intern. I tried to do the whole first in, last out thing to make a good impression but instead I got in trouble for working more than 40 hours a week. The solution could have been to not make me log hours like I was working retail or something and just pay me my intern salary, but that was against some policy. I had to accurately log my hours, and never work more than 40, but also still be there beyond 40, but also never lie about how many hours I was working. Hmm…
All that said, I have a buddy who was a VP at one of the shops you mentioned who is now a MD and I swear he is out of the country more than he is in it. His Instagram stories look like a travel influencers’.
TL:DR, it depends, although I’m surprised your shop is that sweaty. Everywhere I have worked, big or small, has cared far more about productivity. Sure, sometimes that requires ridiculous hours or weekend work, but on the flip side sometimes it means you work 3 real hours in a full week of “work.”
I spent time at one of the big shops as an associate, so I felt like I got a front row seat to how the MD's were treated (I knew from the beginning I wouldn't be at the firm longer than a couple of years). I can confirm that a majority of your concerns are valid. You are always reporting up to people unless you got into the firm early, but even then there's enough overhead that you are constantly being watched. Markets are split up pretty randomly (this was a national developer) and deal flow is really just luck often times. Salaries are good, but promote is set to an amount to make you nervous to leave but nothing life changing. Seemed like many of the development directors felt stuck at the firm in hopes of hitting that homerun, but knew it was likely never coming and didn't have the runway to go out and do their own thing as they were so buried within the org. Now I can't imagine how they are feeling.
It was incredibly political at the MD level, with it always feeling like 1-2 of the MD's were on the outside looking in. Obviously the more deals you pull off the better but often times it felt like it was just luck and some of the more talented people got screwed. PTO was really frowned upon at the top level and the work life balance while manageable, honestly sucked. I'm on a small team now and often work past midnight and few weekends - but when we're slow - can cut out at noon on a Friday or get an early workout during the week and go home. At my old shop you were stuck in the office until 5:30 on Fridays and 7PM during the week even when there was nothing going, which drove me up a wall.
Different strokes for different folks but I was ok taking a little more risk and less structure for my next role. I had a few candid convos prior to leaving and most of the folks understood that the company was a good fit for them. It's a way to risk the development business by increasing salary and giving up upside, but in turn, give up the flexibility that a majority of CRE shops offer. This firm's CEO is notorious for being an asshole so it could be better at other places.
hope this helps
What were the promotes if you recall? At my last shop, 10% was the highest, with it hovering more in between 5-10% for senior roles.
2-3% for development managers - I think the directors and executive MD's started getting into the 5-7%s but had coverage over more deals as they moved up. We were doing deals mostly $100MM+ and up to $500MM
I worked at one of the big boys sandwiched by two stints (one current) at family offices that were pretty small. Work-life balance was definitely way better at the smaller shops, I didn't count PTO days, they were chill about when you showed up, less bureaucracy and general bs. The "Investment Committee" at the family offices is the head family member, and "IC Approval" was just sitting down for 30 minutes with him as you ran through the model and your proposal. Sometimes you get the thumbs up, sometimes you need to come back with more analysis, but it was never the rigid circus that the large shops have.
The big shop definitely had the culture of staying late for appearances, lots of junk work that didn't really do anything but made the bosses happy, lots of repetitive reporting across multiple levels of the organization (weekly meetings with direct supervisor, monthly meetings with office MD, and monthly meetings with regional MDs) which would all required their own reports, etc. I remember some of our deals were going sideways because interest rates skyrocketed and my boss would just routinely yell at us that we need to work harder on our underwriting and analysis, as if there was any way to "excel" your way out of a bad land basis.
I would never go back to one of those kinds of shops unless they like doubled my current salary, it's not worth the brain damage at this stage in my life. That being said, having them on my resume definitely opened doors to get this current job, people see it and respect it, so for early career moves it can make sense. I don't know how long your career has been (are we talking 3 years or 14 years?) so hard to say if you should jump ship, but I doubt any of those shops are going to give you an easier time than a small operator.
i've worked at two of the national MF development shops and now work at a small, local (non-national) development shop. The previous comments reflect my experiences. Big shops have substantially more busy work, or work that is largely created for internal reporting. you'll generally need to wear more hats at a smaller development shop compared with the nationals. work-life balance is going to be better at a smaller development shop (generally). i think the smaller development shops respect the institutional know-how/rigor that comes from working at the larger companies, so i'd generally say it'd be better to go from large to small vs. small to large.
any thoughts on Greystar at senior (MD) level for their development team?
If you get that job, take it—at least for a handful of years.
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