NYU Masters Real Estate vs. Non-Ivy MBA
I'm currently considering attending NYU's MS in Real Estate program part-time but have noticed certain job descriptions for positions within certain CRE investmente firms prefer or sometimes require either an MBA or CFA (outside of some REPE, i noticed a job for Allstate that mentioned this requirement). I have been working within CRE finance for 4 years with 3 years of experience in IB prior to that and am considering roles within certain structured capital shops (mezz, pref equity provider, etc)
It seems that a respected MS in RE would be applicable for someone who wants to stay within the industry but was curious if anyone has thoughts on this masters program versus average MBA programs in the NYC area such as UConn, Rutgers, Fordham, etc. Looking to go part time and not sure I'm ready to shell out $175k+ for a "rounded education" if i plan to stay within the CRE industry.
Also, anyone know if Columbia MSRED has a part-time component?
Thanks!
Hey I’m currently in the full time MSRE program at NYU so PM me if you have any questions.
I enrolled in this program following the concept that you should try to get into a top ranked MBA program and if that doesn’t work, then try a top ranked regional MBA or Master’s. My decision to attend the NYU Master’s program was grounded in the belief that a) it is heavily concentrated on finance b) it is very well recognized, especially in the NYC real estate market and c) if you work hard, network even harder, and have an idea of where you want to end up in the CRE industry, then the resources that NYU provides and the doors the brand name can open are limitless. I skipped the MBA route partially for the cost, partially for the 2 year time commitment, and almost 100% for the fact that MBA programs can be very generalist whereas the MSRE is 42 credits of in-depth CRE knowledge with a heavy focus on finance, capital markets, and private equity.
The program prepares you really well to get hired by a variety of players, depending on where you want to end up. I am confident that REPE, REIT’s, REIB’s, and a variety of other investors will entertain my resume and give me an interview…simply for the fact that the program is well known. Obviously it would be up to the strength and ambition of any candidate to get themselves hired, the program will not get you a guaranteed job on its own. The fact that the school hosts major industry conferences, hosts private events for its students to meet with top CRE professionals, and stays on your ass to network makes things easier if you’re looking to transition to CRE from another field (my story: corporate finance CRE finance depending on where I end up).
I just started my second semester there and here are a few key takeaways: all of my professors are working professional adjuncts…this is critically important because you don’t want to learn the academic side of finance only, you want to become marketable as soon as you graduate so having industry professional teach you how they think and make investment decisions really prepares you well. This semester alone, one professor is a MD at a top REPE shop, another a Director at a mortgage REIT, another a partner in a national development firm, and my legal professor is a managing partner of a large midtown based RE law firm. All of these guys are Ivy educated professionals with tons of work experience…I honestly don’t know where they find the time to teach but hey, I’m really thankful.
As for my classmates, 40% are part-time, 60% are full-time. Out of those numbers, 50% are former lawyers, accountants, bankers, and finance guys trying to develop a niche in CRE finance (3-5 years of former work experience). The remaining 50% are people who want to go into RE development, former sales brokers trying to transition into more analytic roles, and students who are pursuing the masters after finishing undergrad. Also something to note is that the program has up to 20% international student mix – the reason for this is that some of these international students come from families who operate large RE portfolio’s abroad, so the students are planning on joining family businesses back home. It is also common to hear that such graduate level CRE finance programs don’t really exist outside of the US.
Sorry for the long post, but if you have any more questions PM me.
These programs are expensive and getting more expensive with each passing year. I believe the NYU and Columbia programs average at least $4,500 to $5,000 per class.
The benefit of the NYU program aside from it being deeply rooted in the Manhattan real estate industry and being focused on practical skills (modeling etc) is that you can slow the program down (taking fewer classes) and jump into internship (and give yourself more time to network with such a nyc vested student body) so that when you finally graduate and get your master's you can have the winning combination of multiple internships (company like/want known quantities - having multiple pre-grad internships gives them comfort and shows them that you have real world skills, relationships and knowledge be it on how an acquisition is done from soup to nuts, fin modeling driven by assumptions that are not total academic bs but real and fresh, or how deals are sourced or what it means to be part of a team: each of these can be verified and augmented with a linkedin recommendation or hard copy rec from the team leader or employer) and a grad degree (which says that you are fully committed to real estate since who in the world pays over 5k per class for such a segmented background if they are not committed to it).
As I am only in my second semester in an MSRED at NYU I can comment only on what i've seen and the people i've met so far. As of now the program has been an amazing experience. All of the teachers have incredible backgrounds in their field and can share real life experience in what they are doing. I would say about 1/3 is international with a large portion of the rest of the students being part time and working in the real estate field whether its for a developer, finance, construction, etc. Teacher selection is important and if anyone reading decides to do the program I would make sure to get opinions on their professors as in every college, some teachers are definitely better than others.
There are consistent guest speakers from the absolute top of the real estate field who come in and give speeches, frequent networking events, and lots of excel modeling/argus prep for the real world. Again like a lot of people have mentioned you can either get a lot of out of this program or you could simply go to class with your head down, study, and get out. You also have the ability to Audit (for free) a number of very specific real estate classes that last from 3 or 4 sessions to the entire semester.
Everyone I have met who has finished the program have gotten great jobs and are certainly excelling in the real world. I was looking into the columbia program as well but to be honest I don't think 1 year is enough time to truly grasp the depth of material that real estate development has to offer, get the full benefit of the networking opportunities, and to begin to leave with any sort of mastery in real estate, just my 2 cents.
If you must go to an MSRE program (which i ++strongly++ recommend you work very hard to avoid on its face given the long time commitment and opportunity costs, the mounting sky-high cost of tuition and the real power of simple and determined individual networking via all these online mediums, industry events and re clubs in major metro areas especially NYC to get a good position if you put the time in, go full guerrilla-self-marketing, push hard to stack 2-4 internship opportunities and get creative about your overall search), NYU's is the sine qua non for real estate entrepreneurs.
I think the reason so many guys who left that program went out and actually bought nyc real estate on their own account within 5 years post-grad is because:
a) The program is filled with NYC/Manhattan real estate lifers. Their grandparents were in re, their parents, and they are currently working in some facet of the business . These people are deep in NYC re network and they are never leaving the City or the real estate game. It is common to have more than a handful of scions from the City’s and tristate’s real estate families in each and every incoming class. If you dig into associated Real Deal articles or Observer stories, you can draw lines and links between some of the start-ups coming out of the NYU program with there being a finance-technical savvy nyu re grad partnering up with the son of a 3 generational nyc re family to start their own thing (balance sheet plus technical skills = nyc re start up. this formula is not uncommon there, and it happens regularly enough).
b) Within your class, the total graduating class and the alumni base you have access to literally every skill-set and resource to build a business on a grassroots level without having to go looking for it or pay retail for the pieces of the entrepreneurial start-up puzzle. Classes are comprised of people with other professional degrees/backgrounds who now eagerly want to strike out on their own in some form or fashion.
c) The program is very practical and finance/excel technical. Each of the classes revolve around doing a real life based case study (arising out of the prof's day to day investment challenges and opportunities) in a small team format (where students form bonds and suss out each other's core skill-sets, highest best use within the team which may give them inspiration to become partners or go into business together after the program concludes), building models, presenting them to faux investment committees. Rinse and repeat to the next class. The result is after two years one can obtain a Swiss Army set of tools in finance, investment and excel to dig into quantitatively whatever real estate opportunity or problem comes their way including a group of people you enjoy working with and know their particular skill-sets. You are getting a broad yet practically focused finance degree that revolves around and is rooted in each area of real estate from development to the capital markets. For students who have a liberal arts undergrad degree or a less finance oriented background getting a practical degree in Finance and Investment recasts their bona fides and can open more investment-themed doors post-grad.
Columbia's program is small, "new-ish" and many of the students are from other countries (with a substantially over-weighted, relative to general US student demographics, amount of students coming from Asia. Columbia must have some sort of local recruitment vehicle at work in countries like China and Korea given their percentage cohort) and don't have a statistically significant connection to nyc, nothing on the extreme scale and long tail that NYU's RE program has, especially 2-5 years post grad where there is the greatest likelihood of "flight" to home countries for job opportunities thanks to a new credential or familial demands. The program has had a series of administrative shakeups over the past years leading to wide ranging curriculum shifts and back-and-forth focal point changes. Joshua Kahr, who did his master's at NYU (and speaks emphatically well about the program) built their finance curriculum from the ground up, if that tells you anything of its derivative nature.