NYU SPS MSRE Reputation (and others)
I’m currently considering NYU SPS MSRE with a concentration in Finance and Investments due to its appealing timing, location, and curriculum (subject to acceptance). However, I've encountered mixed reviews about its standing, especially in terms of ranking and reputation. My career goal is to work for a top firm (Related, JDS, Blackstone, and the like) and the last thing I want is to invest over $100,000 and 1 year in a program that might be perceived as mediocre or ambiguously prestigious when I can wait and try to get into a "better" one if it really makes a big difference.
I'm also contemplating Columbia's MSRED (or other programs), which would necessitate an additional wait of about 4-6 months. Given this, I'm seeking insights on where NYU SPS MSRE genuinely stands within the industry and academic circles. Would waiting for Columbia or another highly regarded program significantly enhance my prospects, or does NYU provide a comparable advantage? Any advice or perspectives would be immensely valuable.
Primary concerns:
- Value:
- pedigree, network, education
- Timing (speed to completion):
- NYU SPS MSRE next term starts on May 20th, 13-month program, I can knock it out relatively quickly with little to no downtime
Brief background of RE experience:
- REPE internship | Family Office |
- Casual/hybrid - Q1 2023 (3mo)
- REPE internship | Family Office |
- Full time / in-person - Current: going on 1.25 months with potential for a FT offer
- Family RE Portfolio
- 2-3 years (to date) helping manage it - several SFH (primary contact / bill payments / performance monitoring / etc.)
Thanks in advance!
Curious if you have a reason why you are not considering the NYU MSRED if you are considering the Columbia MSRED.
I am more interested in the finance/investing side of real estate to start off my career. From my understanding, Columbia only offers the MSRED. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to NYU MSRED (since I eventually want to get into development), but since I already have the option, I might as well go for a more finance heavy route. In my eyes it will pay more dividends in the long run.
Ah, Ok. I figured you knew about the MSRED, and I totally get your motive. Thanks for your reply, also considering NYU but for MSRED.
NYU's MSRE in Finance and Investment is finance heavy which lends itself to different roles than the bricks-and-sticks aspects of MSRED's. It is why it is thought of as a Swiss Army Knife degree in New York for general re acquisitions type work across all product types.
It's not about "knocking it out". You need to do relevant internships in great places during any MSRE or MBA program and then you can get placed. Unless you're doing a top 10 MBA, pedigree alone won't get you in the door at those places. See if you can get an analyst role somewhere, if not, and you can get in a top 10 MBA, do that, if not/need flexibility masters programs are great. Do the finance route at NYU
This is why I see NYU as advantageous given they have a part time option, which slightly eases the pressure to land an internship immediately.
Have been through the program and agree with others NYU is the most flexible - you can get 2-3 internships out of it and finish in 1-1.5 years.
Columbia was tough from the people I knew there, one internship maybe and they were also taking 5 classes. It's all about experience.
Also wouldn't shoot so high for JDS in my opinion, they're having financial issues - look at TRD owner has like a $1mm jet balance he owes and longtime people have left or been fired.
+1 Yes. This is why all MSRE/Ds are fully inert unless paired with 2-3 relevant internships. This is an unqualified rule. To get a finance background and 3 internships allows for a career pivot and it why that nyu program will be evergreen in nyc (despite yearly substantial increases in tuition without much change to the program).
How substantial are these increases? Planning on applying in one or two admission cycles. I think they have spring admissions, for what it’s worth.
Speaking generally, I don't believe that investing $100k in NYU MSRED is justified for someone with prior experience in commercial real estate. In such a case, pursuing an MBA or continuing to seek analyst roles might be more beneficial. What's your undergrad background and field of study? At my firm, we see NYU's MSRE program as inferior to its undergraduate program due to its high acceptance rate and short duration. Several graduates have emerged from the program with limited knowledge, although success ultimately depends on individual effort. While I wouldn't go as far as labeling it a cash grab, there are concerns within the industry. It could be valuable for individuals with subpar undergraduate degrees or lacking finance-related internships, but for those with strong backgrounds, the investment may not be worthwhile. I understand that the job market is tough right now, but for most people, that amount of money is a significant investment that needs a proper ROI. However, if it's not a big deal for you financially, then sure, go ahead. Personally, though, if given the choice, I'd lean towards Columbia if I were deciding between two candidates. If your goal is to work for the firms you mentioned a top 20 MBA is the best route by a long shot.
Duration-wise: Columbia's program is a year with NYU's being 2 years. One is development-focused and the other is finance-focused. One has a very heavily weighted foreign student body (see Chinese recruitments, alumni flight, easy ivy stamp/red-head stepchild stigma) and the other is weighted towards lifelong New Yorkers or transplants who have fully committed to New York. NYU has a much more useful, deeper, historical, and local alumni network. The Columbia program was not in a small part crafted by former NYU program alum/admins from Josh Kahr to others. NYU's program is one of the oldest in the country and has been well respected in NYC RE circles for a very long time. Not a fungible comparison. Survivor bias aside - a superficial LinkedIn search shows with some degree of objectivity (absent in thread-sphere) how well NYU consistently places in the top NYC firms. As a supporting search - juxtapose the undergrad quality, work histories, and professional degrees/licenses of the NYU MSRE's vs Columbia MSRED's. The emerging patterns between each group will tell you 5x more than the sea of opinions that make up this board. An MSRE should deliver at least 3 things: 1. Strong, expansive, receptive local network; 2. Practical and relevant skill-set(s); 3. Minimum of 2-3 internships by post-grad, wherein the NYU program excels (notwithstanding at a $100k+ price tag ---mitigated by the ability to work and study concurrently).
Went to NYU, candidly is a cash grab. A lot of the students are not well prepared coming in and are not that bright, you're back in undergrad carrying some of these projects solo because they can't model or don't know the basics of RE but I guess that's every program? Around half of the people didn't even try so I can see where people say they come out with limited knowledge, I can unfortunately agree.
More history and many well known firms are involved in the program (Silverstein, others) but that won't necessarily translate into a job at those firms.
Better than Columbia in terms of the flexibility and internship opportunities (that you have to get on your own), but from what I saw Columbia seems to have a more rigorous program.
I got my BBA in Accounting and Legal Studies (Double Major) from a top 100 school (was ~#40 when I got in and currently sits at around #70) - 3.4 GPA - thoughts?
In a perfect world I would jump straight into the work force, however the job market is terrible right now. I have been fortunate enough to land an internship for the time being, they really like me there but deal volume is low so there is no real need to bring me on full time currently. I have had a couple of interviews and a common trend that I'm seeing is that they are flooded with overqualified candidates. I even interviewed for an internship and the hiring manager was telling me how he was surprised with the amount of candidates he was getting with several years of full time work experience.
Regarding the top 20 MBA, the consensus appears to be that it is the best option. I know I'm probably looking at it from a flawed perspective, but I am in my mid 20s undergoing a career change, and I feel like time is working against me. I would have to spend 3-6 months prepping for the GMAT/GRE with the hopes that I can achieve a high enough score, and if I don't get that score I am back at square one with 3-6 months lost. NYU SPS MSRE fits well within my timeline, but from the way you and others speak of the program I'm having a hard time getting behind it.
See if you can work part time at firms right now, you're done in August right?
Your network will get you in the door - not pedigree. I am an NYU grad. Working at a top developer in Manhattan & worked at a Life Co right out of grad school.
NYU from a school perspective is easy. Classes are what you make of them - if you put in the work you’ll learn. You get a network and a door opening. The school pounds your network into you and that network got me my current job. many people in the program get hired by the professors who mostly work in NYC RE. Many professors will also open doors for students.
Can’t comment on the Columbia program but I’m sure it’s also good. Probably better academically. Either program you can’t go wrong.
At 2 of the 3 firms I’ve worked for - a large portion of the staff did NYU as their masters. Everyone in NYc respects the degree.
Thanks for the reply, very insightful. Which program specifically did you do at NYU?
MS in finance and investments at Schack.
^this and other wisdom through this thread. Always enjoy reading every couple years what folks are sharing regarding a program that allowed me to pivot and now support my family while enjoying my post-grad career. This forum was a place myself, and many of my fellow alumni classmates looked for insight prior to applying, joining, and graduating from the NYU program.
Went through NYU and was very involved during my time in New York. Post grad, successfully joined an institutional investment manager focused on real estate debt including pref and mezz (AUM: $325B+ | CRE ~ $48B+ AUM, 2020). Now in production at a larger debt & equity shop. Executing across all asset types and executions ~ construction debt, bridge financing, mezz, preferred equity, and various other perm debt structures & capital solutions. Large emphasis on institutional mixed-use & multifamily assets.
In sum, the NYU program can open doors and provide a bridge for many. Similar to other programs. The name on any of these respective programs may/may not open a door by itself or alone. Not to get all preachy or trying providing a pep talk not asked for, if you want to have a successful career rather than an entry level post grad job - its all what you make of it. This is CRE, which requires a lot of hustle and proactiveness to create and maintain relationships, especially in today's environment - which the NYU program's culture aligns with. Cornell has a great program, but wildly different as it is in upstate New York. Columbia is also in Manhattan but a very different structure and class size. Great exit opps at both, and have friends that completed each, but they are a completely different experience than the program you are inquiring about in NYU. Simply, I believe all are great opportunities, and each can be used as leverage however one wants for next steps within a career.
Simply put, the NYU is a masters program that is based in the middle of Midtown Manhattan with a network of alumni dating back >30 years still in the industry and many that are still based in the area. The graduate program holds multiple events every week that brings in industry folks across all seats at the table - REPE, Asset Management, Lenders, Developers, Construction, etc. Hard to replicate the same experience, which is why it is unique and you'll find most folks appreciating the opportunity to look at recent live deals in the classroom or network with future employers or industry friends so often. My post-grad opportunities led me outside of NYC, which are harder to come by, however - it can be done.
Feel free to reach out. Happy to help in any way I can. Cheers!
Carl Passmore
[email protected]
"The graduate program holds multiple events every week that brings in industry folks across all seats at the table - REPE, Asset Management, Lenders, Developers, Construction, etc. Hard to replicate the same experience, which is why it is unique and you'll find most folks appreciating the opportunity to look at recent live deals in the classroom or network with future employers or industry friends so often."
I think this aspect has been missed in the general discussion about regular and frequent boots-on-the-ground NYC networking opportunities and what that looks like practically speaking.
NYU grad here, I landed in institutional real estate post grad and have stayed at that level of shop to date, eventually I want to branch out and do my own deals.
Let’s start with the cons and work our way up. For one, it certainly is not the highest barrier to entry, you will meet people that barely know what a cap rate is, you will also meet people who worked in JP Morgan’s IB RE group (more rare). My experience is that the people who realize they didn’t just get into NYU Stern (providing them with endless networking opportunities) typically do better. 70-80% of the people you meet will likely have an underwhelming background which makes you question why you did the program and the cost will reinforce this negative mindset. You will also struggle to get interviews at Related and most of the professors will give attention to students who already came in with a strong background as they will likely be the ones who place best. You will have to work much harder than if you did an MBA, my experience is the Columbia program is maybe only slightly better than NYU at placing candidates FWIW.
The pros:
Your network will dwarf Columbia’s by a mile, there are so many NYU MSRE’s vs Columbia’s that it’s not even funny, by sheer numbers you will find successful alumni. It’s also well respected across the country, obviously there are those that respect it more than others but it’s a big positive on the resume for the most part. You will also be exposed to many many internship opportunities, a lot of these internships may even lead to a full time job. You can use these internships to ask the dumb questions and come out ahead of the undergrads. It will also reinforce the basics, provide you with tools to master excel/argus/real estate fundamentals.
Keep in mind, every MSRE program is inferior to their undergrad program for the most part. NYU gets magnified to the nth degree because its acceptance rate is higher than other elite universities, this does not mean you cannot succeed. If you decide to go this route, make sure to keep in mind, you will have to get coffee with everyone you can, LinkedIn blast every alumni you can, go to every networking event you can (whether it’s directly in what you want to do or not). You will have to be a sponge and likeable, that’s what I did and it worked out well for me. Others may feel differently. Also, it's important to understand if you're looking at an MSRE through the context of an MBA you're looking at the bigger picture incorrectly. You cannot expect a Harvard MSRE, USC MSRE, or NYU MSRE to compete at the same level as an MBA from NYU or the like. The people who are doing MSRE's know that they want to work in real estate and their undergrad degree is probably not an Ivy league or a public Ivy and they probably don't have the work experience they'd prefer, if they do, there's a lot smaller chance they would look at this degree in the first place.
NYU's MSRE program has a lot of Cornell undergrads (and good amount of folks with professional degrees) if that matters or is worth mentioning.
Spot on analysis having gone through the program as well, one caveat is the internships depend on the market so for example two years ago when I started there were some internships but NYU and Columbia probably had 10-15% of candidates placed in internships due to the lack thereof. A year and a half ago there were even less opportunities, so something to keep in mind, worked with Columbia grads and they said they were a handful who landed work experience - partly due to the market and their class schedule.
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