Hi all,
Context:
I’m a tech product manager that has worked on financial technology my entire career. Started at a national bank on their technology teams building out payments technology, was employee #1 at startup that later got acquired by a large reputable fintech, afterwards joined another small startup (50ish employees) for a couple of years and now I’m at a larger tech company (1000+ employees).
Asks:
- Has anybody here ever made a lateral move from product engineering into CRE?
- if yes, what role, pay, and hours did you start with?
- do you regret leaving tech?
- what do you enjoy most about CRE?
The reason why: my grandfather was a big CRE guy and i was always fascinated by the concept of him building things in his local community. Unfortunately he passed while i was a teen and I didn’t get the chance to learn about the business from him. Today i have built a lot of things (mostly APIs and B2B software with some consumer facing software mixed in) but I can’t help but feel like I haven’t actually built anything since all of the things i ship aren’t tangible or physical things. It sounds silly but i would love to go for a drive in my local community and look at a building and be able to say “i built that.”
I’m aware I’d probably have to take a fairly sizable paycut to move into CRE as an analyst or jr. associate since i wouldn’t have the background to be hired into a senior role like I’m in now in tech. Good news is I’m a fairly fast learner and majored in finance so I’m familiar with the concepts needed for this type of finance i would just have to brush off the cobwebs since my day to day exposure to finance is limited to my product’s impact on ebitda.
Right now I’m at around 5 YOE in product and a Sr. PM in a MCOL (Raleigh, Charlotte, Chicago) with a cash comp of 200k + 160k in equity and doing about 40-45 hours per week.
Appreciate any and all insights/responses.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, it seems like a transition from tech product management to commercial real estate (CRE) is not unheard of. However, it's important to note that the skills and experiences required in these fields can be quite different.
In terms of roles, starting as an analyst or junior associate in CRE could be a good starting point. This would allow you to learn the ropes and gain the necessary industry knowledge.
As for pay and hours, it's hard to give a precise estimate without more specific information. However, it's worth noting that the pay might not be as high as in tech, especially at the beginning. The hours could also be longer, depending on the specific role and company.
Regarding regrets about leaving tech, this would largely depend on personal preferences and experiences. Some people might miss the fast-paced and innovative nature of the tech industry, while others might find more fulfillment in the tangible results of CRE.
The most enjoyable aspects of CRE could include the opportunity to contribute to the development of local communities, the tangible results of your work, and the potential for significant financial returns.
However, it's important to do thorough research and possibly seek advice from professionals in the field before making such a career change. You might also consider leveraging your tech background in a real estate tech company, or in a tech-related role within a traditional real estate company.
Remember, every monkey has to find his own jungle. So, take your time, do your research, and make sure to choose the path that feels right for you.
Sources: Best way to break into CRE coming from a computer science background?, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/real-estate/qa-non-target-career-changer-to-vp-of-development?customgpt=1, CRE Lending Exit Opps?, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/real-estate/people-that-have-left-the-corporate-cre-world-and-went-into-brokerage-how-has-it?customgpt=1
It will be a tough transition. Being a fast learner is good, however the only way to really learn in this industry is through reps, as in looking at deals constantly for 2-3 years straight. You would likely take a big pay cut just to get into the industry and youd be spending 3-5 yrs just trying to get to the pay you are at now.
I have not seen people make the move to CRE from tech. The lifestyle and pay is usually worse so I dont know why people would want to. If you want to stay in the same area you are now, you are looking at a small number of firms (unless you are in chicago) that would even consider hiring you as you would have to be in the office at least 3 days a week at the junior levels. Remote jobs are far and few in this industry.
I know little about product management, but my ex girlfriend was a PM. You would most likely have the easiest time moving into a development type role as those are very much project management based. You could also move into brokerage at a junior level, but you wouldnt really be building anything in that role.
Appreciate the response. I’ve zeroed in on development as a possible lateral move that would be most applicable to what i do today (use data to identify problems/opportunities, make a hypothesis, build something to test hypothesis, if it’s good and profitable grow the business line, if it sucks deprecate the product and reuse the relevant pieces for some other product) there’s a lot of project management that’s naturally included in the product development process where i would feel comfortable managing a lot of overlapping projects or tasks to get a deal across the finish line from soup to nuts. I’m definitely lacking the know how of what exactly those tasks are obviously but hoping a few reps could help me build that mental model out.
Appreciate the response. I’ve zeroed in on development as a possible lateral move that would be most applicable to what i do today (use data to identify problems/opportunities, make a hypothesis, build something to test hypothesis, if it’s good and profitable grow the business line, if it sucks deprecate the product and reuse the relevant pieces for some other product) there’s a lot of project management that’s naturally included in the product development process where i would feel comfortable managing a lot of overlapping projects or tasks to get a deal across the finish line from soup to nuts. I’m definitely lacking the know how of what exactly those tasks are obviously but hoping a few reps could help me build that mental model out.
Don’t do that
just be the thing you want to be. I’d you want to be in cre investing then get a Columbia mba and get into it in nyc
sr pm to real estate developer no sense makes
If you have any entrepreneurial instincts in you, you should find a way to create better technology for real estate. The tech and services we work with, both behind the scenes and on site, is clownish garbage. You could create a mediocre B- product and it would make you billions because it would still be dramatically better than everything currently being used. If I knew how to code at all, that would be my play.
I kind of went down this path once before when i switched from banking to non-funded startup to being acquired. I could be interested in building a company from scratch again but honestly i don’t know enough about the CRE space problems today. I could research some though on the side. Any specific problems or pain points you experience today that you feel could make your life easier if they didn’t exist?
The biggest issue I have is our AV systems. We have TVs in our amenity spaces and we want the following functionality: a) tenants can change the channels and b) they can't steal the remotes. So we're left with these shitty wall mounted control panels that only work 60% of the time and constantly need to be reset. I'm sure there is a better solution on the market but our PM team doesn't have any ideas, they say everything they've worked with is terrible.
Any resident-facing interactivity.
Right now we have two different access control systems on site - both of which are garbage and go down constantly, an app that residents can use which is dogshit, a common area AV system like jarstar1 mentioned with both bad hardware and bad software, a different system for reserving common areas and micro offices, a different system for the package room, a resident-facing system for renting apartments, a back end system for managing apartment work orders and for residents to pay their rent, etc. There are probably other systems property management uses that I'm not even aware of, but I promise you that they suck too.
The dissonance from the iPhone in your pocket that is made out of super high quality hardware, has super responsive software, and just works to the garbage that residents have to put up with just makes it seem even worse and dates the apartment building the second it opens.
You should honestly just try to do some real estate investing as a side project. You make so much you would be taking a huge cut to switch.
save some money until you can buy some rental properties and learn the basics that way.
I have explored this in the past but I don’t like the idea of doing side gig work. I’m more of an all in or not at all type of person and have seen this flaw bite me in the past so i avoid business hobbies for now and just pick up pleasure only.
Will you be working for a $70K salary with a 10% bonus? or maybe no bonus with the way things are right now. Just want you to have the right expectations on the paycut you thought you would have to take.
Is the comp about this in a MCOL city? Or is this in something like NYC/SFO/LA?
MCOL and for someone new to CRE. Though with some gigs (brokerage/mortgage banking for example) it's not unusual to see that as a base for someone new to CRE in HCOL markets.
man with that comp and hours il swap you my repe job right now
is that 160K in equity per year or over the entire vesting period?
160k per year. My TC is somewhere around 360 +/- a few thousand here and there for performance related bonuses.
I'd echo the above comment and get an MBA and try to do real estate at a PE shop/Developer if your dead set on it.
Wouldn't ever recommend someone take a 70% paycut in a tough job environment.
This is fair advice. Appreciate the feedback and totally understand the paycut being higher risk given current environment. Definitely adds a variable to the decision.
I actually worked in product in a past life so this seems right up my alley. For context, I spent a few years after undergrad in a variety of product development roles without any desire to work in real estate. After 5 years I decided to go back to school and get my MBA to open doors to bigger and better companies. Long story short, after spending a summer interning as a PMT at a FAANG I realized that it was just not what I wanted to do. So my second year I decided to re-recruit and nearly accepted a consulting offer before I took a RE class on a whim with possibly the best professor I’ve ever had who made me fall in love with the space. Long story short, I was fortunate enough to land a job in development right out of school which has been great ever since.
So a few notes from my personal experience:
1) I would definitely recommend going back for an MBA if you’re looking for a massive pivot like this. Of those from my class who went into RE, I don’t think a single one had any sort of relevant experience beforehand and they all landed amazing jobs.
2) There will definitely be a notable pay-cut no matter how you slice it. I’m not familiar with non-MBA pipelines, but for MBA recruiting you’ll probably be in the $115K-145K range for base salary (you can look up the medians for specific programs in their annual employment reports).
3) There’s a ton of overlap in product management and development which should benefit you. In both you’re largely the fulcrum for efforts that involve plenty of moving pieces with incredibly specialized skillsets where you’ll need to know multiple “languages” to make sure everyone is on the same page and moving along. You just have to think about it as launching a product in a new space you’re unfamiliar with. Sure it’ll take some time to bone up on the specific concepts, but it’s not overwhelmingly daunting. Having a solid grasp of effective market analysis will also give you a massive leg up as you would not believe the amount of people I’ve spoken to whose entire market analysis is essentially pulling a Costar report and blindly trusting it.
4) You will be absolutely amazed as how archaic RE tech and certain practices are compared to what you’re used to, which can be both good and bad. On the bad side, you’re going to be pulling your hair out trying to understand why the entire industry is stuck in 2003 with an absurd amount of effort still being spent on manual manipulation of excel or Argus data. But on the other hand, you will look like an absolute wizard whenever you automate processes or otherwise save time.
5) There are definitely cultural differences between RE and tech and being a good personality fit is incredibly important (especially when it comes to moving up the ladder).
Happy to answer any other questions you might have!
This is a very thorough response and about what i was looking for. I’m curious if you have any answers for some of my questions about your decision after switching. Any regrets leaving tech? What do you love about it? What do you hate about it? Do you think there’s sufficient upside as a developer or are the career opportunities greater in tech?
Stay where you are. Continue making money then do your own real estate deals.
Congrats on Raleigh
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