What does a long-term career in RE look like (does it get better)?
An2 at a fairly reputable REPE in London, doing a mix of assets/portfolio/corporate situations, largely value add/oppurtunistic. Pay is market, culture is ok, hours aren't great which is what prompted this thread. What does a long-term career in RE look like? Looking up at my seniors it doesn't seem to get better at least until VP/Principal/Director, and even then they work pretty grueling hours and are on almost always responsive. Even MDs/Partners are usually responsive and if they're not, they're working, not taking it easy.
I turn it to you, senior associates, principals, junior partners - when does it get better? When do you have time for your family, to be unresponsive, to work to live instead of live to work? Does it ever? I thought RE was supposed to be relatively relaxed compared to PE/HF but it seems about in line. Maybe I leave at 11pm intead of 1am but what about leaving at 6pm? What are the "true exit opps" in real estate from MF REPE/in general? Development could fit the bill, but in London it looks like a "British lads game" more than anything. Are Core funds chill?
Mainly looking for European perspectives, but very happy to turn this into a general discussion (US, MENA, APAC).
Would love to know
Bruh I leave at 6pm nearly every day and work in REPE. Look for a smaller or more regional firm, especially owner/operators. Less money than mega funds or big time LP firms but when broken down on a hourly rate basis it's shakes out to the same. Less burnout in the long term. All the Principals/MDs here are still generally available when needed, but they are out of the office around 4:00-5 and seem to have a great quality of life outside of work. Obviously there will be sprints around closings but otherwise it’s a nice middle ground.
^This. Smaller AUM REPE firms, owner/operators, regional developers, and family offices are where the sweet spot is in terms of comp/wlb.
You just have to find a better company. I've worked some of those bad hours over my career, now I'm probably ranging from 35-60 hours a week, with average of around 45.
What kind of firm do you work at? How did you get there, and were the bad hours worth it, in terms of career development to get there?
Patron Capital?
There are SO many opportunities to work a ~40 hour week in CRE. Get your fix of the big fund experience/"prestige" then look at pretty much any small/mid-sized shop to jump to.
What does salary/comp progression look like at these types of shops, beyond asso? How do you do your own DD on if a smaller shop is legit and worth leaving the prestige track for a long-term career? Are these types of places usually/always open to megafund asso's looking for a smaller fund experience, or by going to a megafund am I cutting this off?
It very much depends where you work. Personally, I prefer lifestyle firms to top dollar pay. While I check emails on the weekends, if someone can’t find me for 20 hours, no one will scream. If they need me to answer, they can call my personal phone. Week days I’m done by 530-730 PM (start around 9AM-10AM).
Also, generally speaking, working at a developer will have a better lifestyle than a PE fund. As developers do 1 or 2 deals annually, if that, there is just less going on. Which means better life. Not only I’m I at a lifestyle firm, I’m at a developer. I find this to be much more conducive to a long career without burnout.
I agree with this, and I think this is what I am looking for, your hours are a normal 9-5 job with a bit of hightened responsibility (weekend email etc).
How did you get to the type of firm you work at? Is there a value-add to the IB/megafund path, where this type of background would be able to hit the ground running pretty quickly and get responsibilities beyond their years in a shorter period of time?
What does your comp look like - and more importantly, how does it look on a long term career POV? Are you on a path to be making mid $000ks once you've got 8-10+ yrs of experience, starting to run your own deals etc?
Sidenote, do you think working for a prestige developer is worth it? (Hines, TCC, TS, Related) In terms of comp, project experience, resume branding? Or (if you've heard anything) are the hours/culture/pay not really worth going there?
I never wanted the IB / Mega fund path and it is 100% not needed. Most real estate people never worked in IB and frankly it is different work. IB is corporate level whereas real estate is asset level. Would it add value - maybe? But if I need an associate I would go with the bricks and sticks person who has worked in real estate over the IB person, personally. Though I do work with people who started in IB. It will not hinder your career.
I am currently at mid $200s. Could probably get more based upon recent conversations I’ve had with recruiters. However, my entire career they’ve always told me I could get 100-250k more by moving and it’s never panned out. Long term-there is 100% a path to $400-600k annually. People on this website seem to think every MD makes $1M but that is just not the case on my experience and quite rare. $1M is a ton of money and most companies just don’t pay that. My plan has always been to go off on my own and I always have looked at my job as a stepping stone to do so with the long term vision in mind. Work to build my network and learn because no company will pay me the amount I want.
By 8-10 years I’ll probably be making $350-$500K. I am currently at 7. When I began my career it was VP by 7-10 years and $300 K around that mark as well. This seems still pretty accurate to me. Some firms pay more and some less.
Yes, working for a name brand developer is always worth it. But it all also comes down to you and what you want. Some people don’t want to be in a corporate culture and would rather go work for a start up developer and take a lot of risk to make more money. I’ll take the cash due to my eventual career plans and how I want my life to unfold.
Director/VP is generally where it gets "easier" because you typically have people junior to you that you can use to leverage yourself.
That gives you more time to do higher level work or just work less.
There are definitely places that have the long working hours culture and firms that don't. I've been at both - spent my junior years working longer hours and VP/Principal years at places that allowed and trusted me to manage my own schedule. I had breakfast with a friend this morning and came in at 10 and nobody batted an eye. I'm leaving at 5pm on Thursday to catch a flight and nobody cares.
On the other hand, I do always have my phone and try and check my email every once in a while. So that never goes away permanently.
Quite funny to hear London Developers described as a Lad's game - I am at a London developer and always thought the same of London REPE!
Development is definitely more relaxed hours wise. I work 9 - 7 and have many peers / friends in development who work even less. I think the work is more varied and interesting but that's just my view of it. It's also common to be quite flexible, especially given that you are expected to be on site a few times a week - so it doesn't look strange to be away from the office.
Comp wise development in London is a step down from REPE - especially given how high REPE salaries have gone post Covid. There's been a bump in salaries in development but it was maybe 20% vs. the 50% that has happened at the top of the REPE analyst/associate market. At my level (associate) you can expect base of c. £80k-90k, a small bonus of 20-30% and a cut of carried interest / promote. The promote can be quite a big number but it's all hypothetical - especially right now!
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