Curious to hear some of your stories with firms in your career in the RE industry. I'm sure a lot of you had worked at small firms where it might have been a cluster fuck or you got hoodwinked into a position that wasn't what you thought it was.
| +74 | Rise48 - Posts Being Removed, Speaking Only Truths | 46 | 5h | |
| +61 | Help Me Understand Office Rationale Today… | 27 | 11m | |
| +59 | Multifamily Outlook | 26 | 44m | |
| +41 | Lender Funded Interest Reserve - Trying to Make Sense | 18 | 1d | |
| +40 | Real Estate DCM or Credit Family Office | 5 | 1d | |
| +31 | Seeking advice - Raising capital for the first time on a solo deal | 5 | 1h | |
| +22 | Long Term Comp Prospect of CRE | 7 | 3d | |
| +21 | Standing out as a new grad applying for analyst roles | 8 | 3d | |
| +20 | PERE 100 / 200 2024 | 16 | 2h | |
| +19 | Agency MF Underwriting Parameters Re: CNA | 1 | 1d |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
Worked in commercial/multifamily real estate appraisal for about a year in 2007/2008 (essentially, first job out of college). My first review was glowing--my boss said I had picked up on the industry and the work faster than any analyst they had ever seen. Three months later my boss called me into the office and fired me, saying that in this difficult market (2008) "performance is key," so they would have to let me go. To this day I consider it the worst moment of my career because I knew and they knew that I was being laid off because their pipeline of work had, in the matter of a week, completely disappeared, and yet right to my face they insulted my performance (and de facto my character) in order for them to save face.
I'm patiently awaiting the right moment, but I will have my revenge on this organization if it's the last thing I do.
Oh I'm right there with you.
My first job in the industry was awful. I worked for CBRE/JLL/Colliers/C&W. I networked my way into the company and had very minimal experience, so I started as a market analyst with a transition to brokerage planned. As a market analyst, I excelled, and quickly became the lead on all market research, all presentation materials, etc. for the entire office. I took the license test, passed, and got assigned to the office owner rep team.
Unfortunately, not only was the principal who ran the office owner rep team the strongest example of the Peter Principle I have ever personally witnessed, but he was a generally awful person, always pointing how how much "better" he was than me at real estate, (I had been working 6 months while he had been doing this for 25 years...) always questioning my dedication, always talking shit about me to the other principals while pretending to be my "greatest advocate" to my face, and just flat out being a shithead.
I never called off work, but when my car broke down one day during my hour long commute he made me text him a picture of my car in the garage because he didn't believe me, and when my dad had a serious health issue he gave me shit about taking a day off for it for over a month while he ironically had a kid with a minor health issue that he would take off work for constantly. My buddy at work got hired by a NYC debt broker and left, and my boss was furious at him for the "betrayal," which he proceeded to take out on me instead of talking to my friend because "my generation" was "disloyal." I tried talking to him about it. No avail. I tried switching to another team since the other principals respected me. It only reinforced how "disloyal" I was.
During this time I had personally sourced a major corporate sublease opportunity that would have been the largest deal in our office's history. I made the connection with a major foreign PE group that was buying the firm, I set the initial meeting with the PE principal, who was a man of intimidating impressiveness, and I got our into the contest to represent the space that we otherwise were not going to be invited to. My office's response? They did not put me on the pitch team or the proposed deal team, even though I was now on a first name basis with the executive from the PE firm. We came in second.
I was (low) salary + bonus + commission for this first year but that was rather strange for the industry, so as my year was coming to a close, and they were talking to me about going on a draw, I decided that I didn't want to be in debt to this company. With a month to go, I told them that I would not be renewing my contract but that I would finish out what I had on my plate before I left. For two weeks, I closed a handful of leases, only for them to fire me, making up tons of accusations that were complete nonsense. I didn't get paid those commissions or my year end bonus, and since I didn't have any money, there wasn't really anything I could do about it.
Best part? The three other principals fired me. My boss didn't have the balls to do it like a man.
I will forever hate this company and hope there comes a day when I can punish them for it.
"Good good...let the hate flow through you"
one time I thought I had to fart at the urinal, ended up guessing wrong
the upshot being that you were already next to an appropriate disaster response staging area?
My first job out of college was selling sub prime mortgages, no idea what they were or what the effect of this industry would have on our society but it was a decent job so I took it. My boss and my closest coworker at the company had the same first name. After an exceedingly rough day I was dumb enough to think I was emailing my coworker "John fucking hates me, I know I'm gonna get fired soon"...ended up sending it to the wrong John. John did indeed hate me and I was fired about 3 weeks later...this was mid 2000's and looking back on what they were teaching us and how they wanted us to talk to our customers on the phone it was a no brainer that the industry was on a downward spiral.
They basically just gave us a stack of names and phone numbers of people that got denied for mortgages previously on the basis low income or poor credit and had us cold call all day to those people to tell them that they would in fact qualify for our mortgage product. From what I remember our rates were around 10-15% apr with a few points up front. The people i worked with were absolute morons but they literally were showing up to work in beemers and benz's just like The Big Short. It was easy to sell the products since everything thought their houses were going to continue to appreciate by 25%/year. I got fired in the beginning of 2007, I think the whole company went under in early 2008.
Although this did not happen to me, I wanted to bring up a situation that happened at my friend's firm.
My friend ended up getting his friend a job. One this kid's first day, he woke up extra early to ensure the first day went smoothly. He had some extra time to kill, so the kid went to get a coffee before proceeding to his new office. While waiting in the lobby, the kid spilled his coffee all over the couch / seating area in the lobby. Kid was freaking out, ran to the bathroom and grabbed paper towels to clean up situation he just created. After he cleaned the mess up, he then went up to the office and went about his first day.
At the end of the day, the kid gets a call to come up to the founder's office. The founder of the company asks the kid to sit down, then pulls up the security camera footage. The founder explains to the kid that he had some very important investors coming in that day, and that he couldn't believe someone would have the willingness to make a mess in the lobby and not bring the situation up to anyone. The kid explains he was nervous and thought that he did a good enough job by cleaning it up with the paper towels from the bathroom. The founder ends up asking the kid to leave and never come back.
Later that day my friend texts his friend and asked him how his first day went. The kid said he got fired. My friend thought it was a joke, but then got the DL from his friend on what happened.
My friend had a pretty good relationship with the founder, so the next day he went into his office and demanded an explanation on wth happened. Founder asked my friend "If my employee can't be honest about a spill in our lobby, how can I trust this employee with a $2 billion fund?" And went on about how he couldn't believe the kid wouldn't mention it to someone... secretary, janitor, etc.
My friend ended up quitting shortly there after (6 months or so later) as he stated it was a toxic work environment.
I don't see anything wrong with the founder's perception, honestly speaking. But firing first day on the job? That's tough.
Yeah except for some 22 year old the thought might not have even crossed their mind that they should have brought it up to cleaning staff. A little coaching might have gone a long way in this situation (i.e. "Did it occur to you how this might look to a client walking through the lobby?"). I see why the founder would think that way and don't think he was wrong to be pissed, but still sounds like a dick for going right to the extreme for a little coffee spill.
My story..
I interned with a small multifamily investor back during college. Firm might not even be around anymore as they were the shadiest humans I have ever met. All our properties were located in the straight ghetto in a city which is one of worst in the US. They would have me venture out to take photos of them and keep tabs on any of our rehab projects as part of my responsibilities. I would also do some leasing for our Section 8 properties which accounted for 95% of our portfolio. One time I have a showing to potential tenants and I didn't have the right key on the key holder they gave me. So I'm literally outside trying to get into this multi family home with the people right by my side. I can't find the key. I call my boss to tell him and he tells me "we never had a key for it, use like a pin to pick the lock or swipe the lock with a credit card we do it all the time" I was like wtf. I ended up picking it.
Another type I went out to take pics of properties for a memorandum we were doing for an investor. I had to take photos inside as well. I pull up to this property and there's 6 gang members sitting on the porch. I drove off and said fuck it. Another property that day I went to I pull up and a guy runs out of the front door. I go inside and apparently he was random person living in the basement who broke in.
Man those were some fun times. Many times where I thought I would never make it back alive.
Coming out of my MSRE program, I had interviewed a few successful rounds with a development firm for an analyst position, a CMBS shop for underwriting, and a small family shop for a FA role. I ended up going with the CMBS shop since I had prior work experience in DCM and thought it would be a less riskier move than to join a developer or a family owner/operator. Also, the interview process was quick and my offer was right at my ask (which in my head was a little higher than even what I was expecting).
Worst mistake of my life. The two principals in charge of my lending group had terrible attitudes with all staff, hated one another despite starting this division together from scratch, and rejected almost any client that was dumb enough to come to this group seeking a senior mortgage, turning them away for frivolous reasons. If these principals were good at anything, it was reminding borrowers that it was God’s gift to the borrower that my firm would even review your application and size a loan, only to reject the borrower over risks barely understood by these “veteran” fools. So many underwriters had come and left before I started but I didn’t learn of this information until the end of my first month.
Underwriting and closing loans requires less analysis than I initially thought since we used an in-house model, but a majority of the job was process and document management. It was more important that we screen the corporate entity borrowing the funds than the actual value of the real estate/financials that we were underwriting against. I was never trained by my manager on many of the things I worked on, and the one underwriter that was asked to help me along the way, was a know-it-all type that was very unpleasant to work with and was fired herself, after I was let go. I started in October of 2015, and flash forward 4 months to the first week of February, and the head of the group calls me into her office and tells me that she will not be recommending me for a year-end bonus (something she guaranteed when I signed on). I made my peace, apologized for my poor performance (not a single hour of training was provided), and tried to formulate a plan to become a better underwriter before walking back to my desk.
Over the next few weeks, our pipeline had completely dried out, we were facing regulatory headwinds which we knew we couldn’t survive, and not having applications from borrowers to analyze meant that most of my final days were spent watch Bloomberg news and twiddling my thumbs. By the end of February I was fired by the two principals, both citing my lack of experience, and professionalism. Both knew this was bullshit territory since we had no deals to work on and firing the new guy would reduce payroll expenses and give the impression that these two dopes were actively managing the business (which they were not…4 hour lunches were common).
Best feeling…learning that every other underwriter and originator that worked there either left or were let go a few weeks after me. Regulation A/B for CMBS conduit shops was the deathblow this division couldn’t survive and lo and behold, the division finally shut down 6 months after I was let go. I do not seek revenge however. But there is nothing more satisfying than checking on LinkedIn to see where these two principals have ended up…8 months have passed since these nut cases were fired and they still haven’t been able to find a new job. Neither did the underwriter who was suppose to train me. As for myself, I found a new home in Asset Management and acquisitions for a fairly decent sized NYC landlord. Life moved on rather pleasantly.
Not necessarily a bad a experience, but it kind of goes along with the whole "fired for a dumb reason theme" going on in this thread.
I worked at a fast food sandwich restaurant for a few months in college as a cashier. My job encompassed a few other things, like cleaning the front half of the store and helping with food prep. It was only planned to be a 3-4 month job, but after a few months I was "replaced." My hours basically got cut down to 1-2 per week for a couple weeks before the other guy fully took over. The explanation for my quick replacement was that I was not quick enough at cutting bread.
I have the most horrendous one yet.
I pull up to work every Monday, and the building is still standing. It's awful just awful.
I had a conversation with my manager which, unbeknownst to me, she considered to be incredibly negative.
The next day, we had a departmental meeting (70 people) going over that quarters results, and my managers laptop was used to deliver the Powerpoint. She "forgot" to turn off notifications, and about 5 minutes in she received an e-mail pop up from HR that said "Surferdude867 - Final Warning." Needless to say this was the beginning of the end for me.
Everyone turned to look at me, and all I could do was shrug my shoulders. I e-mailed her to ask if there was anthing I should be worried about. She came over to my desk, then pulled me into a room and said "no."
The next day I get called into a meeting with her and HR, who presented me with a letter to sign that said I "became aggressive and hostile towards Manager X, humiliated her publicly, and had been working to undermine her authority." She had a shit eating grin on her face and when I refused to sign said "you still have to do what I say, when I say it."
I quit 4 days later, and am ineligible for rehire
That cunt was eventually fired for "Breach of Trust."
I am going to destroy her.
how'd HR know your WSO name?
.
Ah, my last experience was freaking terrible! After my MBA, I joined a tech firm to do corporate finance but had the itch to get back in CRE. I networked my way to a firm of engineers who now owned a boutique investment firm. The founders said they had built a tool with AI, BOTS, etc to acquire real estate which sounded neat, also focused on being data driven. They had a home run transaction which was all over the news and the founders seemed ligit, so I joined the company. Also, the owner said they where in the process of raising $100 million which gives them dry powder for $300 million in deals. FALSE FALSE FALSE! Just a syndicator slamming deals together and a lot of lies along the way.
Once I started, I knew right away I had fucked up. The company didn't have AI or BOTS to acquire real estate, they were using excel. Even better, it was REFM tool with a new output page and some edits. I posted 2-3 months after I started about "MORON MANAGER... HELP". So many people told me to leave the firm but I was trying so hard to make things work. People had no idea what sources & uses mean, discount rate or just basic things when it comes to analyze a deal. I built a model and moron who was supposedly responsible for on boarding me changed the font colors and said we partnered on the project together. On another occasion, I had spent almost a week putting together a pitch to send to an advisory firm, this moron manager just jammed himself into my work to send it to an outside firm. To expand on how much of a moron this guy was, he was trying to do IRR on two assets and he highlighted both rows across 5 years to get the IRR which led to a higher IRR. Nothing in his lizard brain said add up the cash flows and do IRR or XIRR. It was a total nightmare experience. When I voiced some of my concerns to the principals, I got gas lighted!!! It freaking sucked ass working at this shop but i didn't want to look like someone bouncing jobs after 6 months at this terrible shop.
After getting gas lighted, the owners told me to revamp their commercial tools because I had included some data tables, sources & uses and other key performance indicators in the multifamily tool I built...after doing that I got FIRED! I GOT PUMPED AND DUMPED. Mind you, I introduced this group to my buddy's private equity shop with over $10 billion in assets and these POS guys didn't want to work with them. They said it was easier to work with high net worth individuals which was weird to me. They put in the firing letter I did a bad job and I wasn't a company fit haha. Luckily for me, I had all my emails and in my 7 months at the firm, I networked like hell and many brokers in my market liked my approach. There are two firms in my market that won't deal with this company because of their shadiness. I networked like hell and got a job in 5-6 weeks at a better shop with folks who know what they are doing.
The group I was at would buy core deals that generate lower returns, use lower cap rates to show investors 18% IRR which would make them invest. We are in a somewhat strong market so everything is still growing. Time will tell if they get caught with their pants down.
After that experience, I am not sure I will ever trust anyone who says they have a unique technology to buy real estate. I guess my first red flag should have been that the owners didnt' want to monetize their tech product. The AI/BOTS was a capital raising tool with tech investors. Also, the owner would lie on buyer interview they had capital handy which was a lie, usually had to go out and raise additional capital through their net work and crowdstreet to get deals done. It's sickening there are shady folks in CRE but joining the wrong firm can be a fucking nightmare!!
My story not related to CRE, but since others have veered off that course .. and its Friday, I will too. This is story is more about a young kid getting a look at how the real world operates (well, in some places anyways).
I grew up very close to a tier 2 level horse racing track. They had 2 big events during the season. I got a gig in the valet "department." I was not a full time hire, but an overflow guy .. I would be called in for the 2 big events, Mothers/Fathers Day, or just weekends that were showing great weather.
One of my first days was for their biggest event of the year. Got there at 8am and it was basically non stop until noon. I mean physically running from the parking lot back to the valet circle, grab another car ... repeat, repeat, repeat. Then there was about 2-3 hours where it was quiet, and then it was non-stop again from say 3-6pm.
When customers were on their way out, most of them would tip .. anywhere between $3-5 usually. It was demanded that all tips be immdiately thrown in the pool .. so that they could be divided up "equally." We were to come by the track the next morning, and our supervisor would give us our cut.
Now, I was the lowest of the low guys on the totem pole .. meaning I was being given the keys to the LeSabres and not the Maseratis .. and I would estimate I probably got tipped on 100 cars. Call it $3.50 aveage tip .. so let's call my total tips ~$350.
The next morning I drive to the track and find my supervisor chain smoking in the parking lot in his caprice classic. He opens the trunk and hands me my envelope.... $40. This greaseball clearly took his cut... and I found out later that all the other valets would try as hard as they could to pocket their tips .. Unless they were in direct line of sight of our supervisor.
It was a microcosm of the pitfalls socialism .. sure sounded great in theory.