*Understand that I'm a bit more liberal in what I'd accept as a reasonable MBA path because I'm in corporate finance and not in capital markets.
I know a lot of you dream of going to a top 10 MBA and that's not realistic for most of you considering the low acceptance rates. Maybe some of us need a reality check and consider a lower ranked program. At the same time, I wanted to hear stories from people who saw coworkers/friends/relatives go into an MBA and come out with zilch because the MBA was just too weak.
Case in point: I was looking for an MBA program in Florida and I thought "why not check out Miami?" Supposedly, it's ranked 96th in the country. What are there? 300, 400, maybe 500 MBA programs in the USA? Surely this has to be decent if it's in the top 20% right?
One web site reported that recent MBA grads at University of Miami have a 36% chance of finding a job within 3 months of graduation. If that's true....WTF!? Why would anyone slam down tens of thousands of dollars for such a poor network and such a poor resume padder? Employers must think those graduates are *worthless*.
1) Depends on your starting point. If you're making $30k a year, a lot more programs are "worth it" than if you're making $100k pre-MBA. 2) I don't know much about miami, but most top-100 programs have ATLEAST 2/3 finding jobs within 3 months of graduation. Many are considerably better, it's usually a salary issue, not employment issue. 3) For Corp finance, I'd recommend a top 25 school. Schools like Foster and such would be good enough for what you want to do. Aside from that, if you want to do a worse school, the recruiting is VERY local, so just find one close to the company you want to work at.
I work at major F500, and T50 is good enough for Corp Fin at F500.
You say you are in corporate finance but what do you want out of it? A lot of corporate finance peeps are in the top 20, including HSW. Really depends on what you want. If you want to go to another company to do the same thing, you can probably get a PT MBA just to get the extra step to get promoted. If you want the most "prestigious" job, aka IB/Consulting, or the most prestigious company, aka Google, Amazon, the top 20 is a much better choice.
I think if you want to live in a specific city but don't have any significant connections in that city, then an MBA could be a good way to do that.
I went to a school in the Midwest but work in FL. My undergrad alma mater has a weak alumni base in FL, so I have been considering going to a school like U of Florida for an MBA just because it is relatively inexpensive and has an extremely strong alumni network in FL.
With that said, I really am not convinced it's a great use of my time and money, but I could see a justification for going to a school outside of the top 25 for the reasons cited above. I think you just have to be really certain that you are going to "settle down" in a particular area - and you don't already have exceptionally strong connections in that area.
If you're a non-American, I would advise you not to apply to a college outside the top-10/12 i.e. it is advisable not to apply to a UNC/Emory/McCombs. This is because of: 1. the reduced quality of the jobs. 2. the small number of jobs for graduates that require sponsorship.
Best of luck :)
In my opinion, it depends on the job that you want to get out of it. If you want to go corporate finance for a large prestigious company (e.g. Google, IBM, etc.) a top 20/25 or a regional school next to their office will make that a lot easier because they're me apt to recruit there. Also, your preMBA pay makes a difference. As opsdude said, if you're making $30k before a lower ranked school can help you get access to noobs that can pay more. On the other hand, if you're making 100k, then a smaller number of schools will have the recruiting access to jobs above that pay threshold.
Negative value is a low bar and I think if you take a program seriously it's hard to argue that knowing more people is negative value...
Guys, going by US News ranking, where do you think is the bar where consultancy firms / I-Banks would just say "no"? To make it a level-playing ground, let's assume that a student at such a school has 730ish gmat score (above the median score for top-schools), a really good GPA as well (ranks at the top of his class), and has good communication skills
The bar is exactly between the 33rd and 34th ranked schools on the US News rankings. I know for a fact that all major consulting firms and IBs use this and make no exceptions at all. Ever.
Depends on the firm. But here, this (imperfect) data will help you:
http://poetsandquants.com/2014/01/17/where-top-mbas-work-in-consulting/…
Generally when you get outside the top-14 it becomes nearly impossible to get MBB (they'll take maybe 2-3 per year)...but 2nd tier firms will still bite in relatively large numbers at schools like Georgetown.
there's also a big drop after dartmouth.
Here's the % MBB from each of these schools, based on the data in the link: Harvard: 66% Stanford: 75% Chicago: 42% UPenn: 55% Northwestern: 50% MIT: 62% Columbia: 47% Dartmouth: 63%
DECENT SIZED DROP
Duke: 27% UC-Berkeley: 24% Cornell: 25% Michigan: 23% Virginia: 40% UCLA: 23% New York: 17% Carnegie: 15% Yale: 21% UNC: 12% Texas: 7% Indiana: 3% Emory: 11% Georgetown: 6% Washington U: 9% U Washington: 3% Vanderbilt: 5%
(obviously I added the emphasis around the drop) (edit: maybe you could argue there's a smaller step change down after yale, too) (edit2: to be clear, the step change in MBB recruiting occurs after M7 + Dartmouth)
Lol slow down, champs.
I'm in corporate finance making mid-50s /year doing business analysis and financial analysis (in the Baltimore region), which is like 90-100k in NYC. I don't think I have a future in anything really "prestigious" like PE, HF, or Consulting
I'm shooting for something lower, like being promoted at my own firm or working in the non-financial sector. It doesn't even have to be something as big as IBM or Amazon but yeah that'd be more my speed than Bain or something.
In your case, I almost would say don't get an MBA. If I were you, and your company wouldn't promote without an MBA (mine doesn't), then I would jump ship to another company. For what its worth, I'm applying to full time programs for a career change, but that doesn't seem like a good case for you.
If you're currently happy with your job (or worst case, you may not be in love with it, but you don't hate your situation), then it may not be worth going full-time. What you may want to look into is a part-time program in your area (Maryland) or weekend part-time in DC (although I think Georgetown's is only an evening program). That way, you aren't giving up an income while going to school, and you can still move up within your firm or move on according to whatever non-financial sector jobs you're interested in.
I have a very good friend in marketing at F500's (probably F50s but I don't feel like looking them up) in the cpg world-think P&G, Coke, Pepsi-who went for his MBA part time, slightly older at a top 50ish state school (probably comparable to Maryland) and it definitely helped him with his career. If that's your career goal, although in finance not marketing, don't listen to everyone on here who's GS TMT/Blackstone PE or bust. Like @mbaapply recommends I'd do the part time to not lose income but if you're making $50k now, get an MBA and can make $100-120k pretty soon thereafter it's worth it. Lower ranked MBA programs aren't worth it for someone coming from IB or MBB consulting because there's a good chance they're already making almost $200k and the jobs they'd get out of UMBC would be a downgrade monetarily but if you're a mere mortal as you described (no offense meant) it'll help your career and the roi will pan out.
Right - I like my job right now and I think it would be foolish to give up
A) the salary B) the career momentum
to go to a full-time program. The only way that would make sense, is for me to go to a top 10 MBA program full time, and if I thought I was that good, this thread wouldn't exist lol
My question to you is how realistic is it that a guy jumps from 50 to 110 coming out of Georgetown? Presumably, I'd be a senior financial/business analyst at that point pulling in 75k. What kind of job would I shoot for on graduation day and what kind of payscale would that carry?
Yeah, I'm not immortal....I'm a strong mortal. By my calculations, I'd only have to increase my base income by 9k just to break even, and that's not including soft benefits like resume boosting, networking, pride, fun etc
There are regional targets that are easier to get into, but you need to plan on living in that area.
I found a hard copy of the report for class of 2013: The average was 102k (not bad), but it didnt offer a breakdown of full time vs part time. I read in Businessweek a comment from a part-timer who was complaining how the part-timers get no love from the career center :(
I've seen people not get much career-wise out of lower tiered MBAs and others do spectacularly well for themselves. It all depends on what you want to get out of it and the stats for your particular school. Any program worth looking at will post their placement stats several months after each class wraps up, look closely at these. You'll be able to see average starting salaries, bonuses, and other comp by region, industry, function, etc. as well as placement rates and what companies are hiring students. Use this as your metric, much more important than a ranking # in US News in my opinion. If the stats look good for what you hope to make and want to do, then go for it, otherwise steer clear.
Based on the US News rankings, where should I make the cut-off for business school applications. (Originally Posted: 07/30/2014)
If I want to be successful and be respected for my Master's degree, at what point should I cut the applications at? Top 10? Top 25? Top 50?
All depends, if you want a generic F500 role, a top 50 may be plenty if you want BB in then you probably need a top 10.
Employment reports and financial aid matter.
Top 10 for BB? Are you kidding me?
What about for MM or boutique?
Yes, if you want to be pretty comfortable you're looking at M7, Haas, Tuck, Fuqua, Stern and Yale. Johnson, Anderson, Tepper, Kenan-Fagler and the like are semi-targets.
All depends where you are now, and where you want to go... Respected and successful - pretty broad terminology. If you want PE/HF out of school - M7 (probably just H/S/W to be safe). If you want BB IBD - Top 25 (top 15 to be safe). Consulting - top 25. F500 - top 50.... And just remember, you can easily be respected and successful w/o an MBA.
Sorry I forgot about Darden, it is also a target
What's the best BAD school for an MBA? (Originally Posted: 04/21/2013)
Here's the deal, jabronis:
I have a bad GPA, a mediocre GMAT, and absolutely no history in finance. Nevertheless, I want to go to school and kind of need to do it immediately -- no time to take extra classes or redo the GMAT.
Could someone please just tell me a decent non-target school. Every time I bring one up (Notre Dame, Tulane, Urbana-Champaign) people tell me to avoid it like the plague.
Could someone just give me the name of a school where I might both get in and possibly get into I-banking?
University of Texas
By "bad" I mean one not in the top 20. Examples would be Tulane, Notre Dame, Urbana-Champaign, Arizona State, Brigham Young, etc.
Look into state schools in the midwest or south. Some of those programs place well locally and are not that hard to get into.
Why do you want to do IB? Why do you think you can do IB?
Examine your motives.
Rutgers, Pace University maybe.
Rutgers, Pace University maybe.
Look into some schools outside of US. For example, some top Canadian MBA programs like Ivey, Queens, or Rotman MBA. Or other Canadian MBA programs like UBC, York etc. There are chances of going to IB from all those school, and they usually do enjoy out of country applicants.
http://poetsandquants.com/2013/04/19/great-b-schools-where-your-chances…
I'm impressed by the real answers and lack of flaming / trolling
Vanderbilt's program places pretty well into IB and I think it's 25 or 30.
xoxo
i've come across a few MBAs from Notre Dame and Emory in BB IBD. needless to say they are the exception not the rule.
i would advise against an "IBD or bust" approach.
What should my cutoff be for applying to business schools? (Originally Posted: 08/14/2014)
I hear a wide variety of opinions on this. I'm going to go with the US News rankings since those, their oft mentioned flaws aside, seem to be the ones most commonly referenced.
Basically, I'm almost certain that short of something literally miraculous happening the M7 is out for me. I believe I have a decent shot at Cornell or something on that level and am 75% sure with the right actions on my part that I can get into Georgetown.
I'm a little confused, because I see all these schools that, in my undergraduate application experience, were considered in top class for desirability largely written off or at least derided as practically useless, including many that (in my limited and biased experience) are major brand names. I'm not trying to go into PE straight out of school or otherwise pretend I'm suddenly going to be top 0.1% achiever, but I don't want to wind up with a bunch of debt and two wasted years of my life. I'm a refugee from a "developing" country (with citizenship and as close to perfect English as I'm ever going to get), so I'm used to being poor from when I was a kid, but intend to do everything possible to make real money. However, I remember life without running water and with cholera so going into a boutique, consulting or work for F500 is hardly the end of the world by my standards.
This is obviously a very subjective question (in the sense that the answer isn't written down anywhere I'm aware of and I imagine varies on one's talent/experience to a great degree) and so I think asking real people on their experiences is more likely to yield an accurate answer than just blindly googling it.
In light of that, what's a reasonable cut off? Is it top 7 like I hear often, meaning I'm way below it and should go find another path in life lest I waste time and money? Is it closer to top 25, meaning I can squeeze in with hard work? Am I worried for no reason and it's actually top 50?
On this forum, it's generally top 15 with the sweet spot schools being Stern, Duke, UVA, Cornell, Yale, UCLA, and Ross, and M7 being reaches
It's hard to say without more information, i.e. GMAT, GPA, etc. In your case you might be better off at a Top 25 with a full scholarship, if you can muster it, than at a top 15. Your ROI will be much higher and you will have much more flexibility.
Back to your original question. Cornell and Georgetown are fine institutions and you should be more than okay over time.
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