The Rise of The Semi-Target
Don't you think it's weird how many kids from semi-targets are able to land good internships nowadays? I used to, but not anymore.
I go to a semi-target--a small LAC that has good connections in finance. I joke that half the people here want to be investment bankers, and I'm not far from the truth--it's probably more like one fourth. But somehow this school comes through and is able to hook up its students with good placement. I'm starting to see why.
The rise of the semi-target I believe is due to three phenomena.
First, the rise of the boutiques, especially in the middle market. This is primarily a function of the past few years' hot deal market, which drives up the demand for ibanks. Boutiques are able to step in and offer kids a job after they're denied by the big names, that's obvious, but now those jobs are worth a lot because of the demand for their firms.
Second, the falling importance of on-campus recruiting. This was primarily driven by the pandemic, but I don't see it returning once the pandemic goes away. It costs a lot of money to do OCR because the analysts and associates take time off work they could be using for a deal (or you have to pay (semi-)dedicated people to conduct OCR, which is also costly). And what's the point when you're going to get a ton of apps for your analyst spot anyway. Banks don't have to pitch themselves that much anymore--people learn about them through WSO or alums and the salaries speak for themselves.
And this is the last but perhaps more important one: The elite schools are not as elite as they once were. There's a lot of talent that's been pushed away from the elite schools for a variety of reasons, and the schools now have a comparatively less elite student body. It's a self-inflicted wound by the elite schools, but it basically means they don't have a monopoly on talent like they once did. You can find incredibly talented and intelligent people at schools with weaker names and banks and recruiters have been realizing this for a few years now.
And once a semi-target gets its foot in the door, the floodgates kind of open. They have alumni connections to rally for the semi-target and help out the students.
I think (and hope) that the rise of the semi-targets is here to stay.
The elite schools are not as elite as they once were.
So False. Literally in our president’s speech he talked about how professors are astounded by how smart the kids are now versus 20 years ago. Regular Decision acceptances rates are 2-4% for the top schools and you have to accomplish an exorbitant amount of things to even break into one of the top schools (assuming you don’t have a fat check daddy can write). The standards are way higher now, and will continue to get higher as the years go on. I’d say semi-targets are seeing better placement because a lot of kids at top schools are looking toward tech or ESG work rather than traditional high finance.
"You dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a' education you coulda' got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library"
"In my short experience of human life I have found that the outward obstacles which stood in my way were not living men but dead institutions"
You're missing the point saying "So False. Literally in our president's speech he talked about how professors are astounded by how smart the kids are now versus 20 years ago. Regular Decision acceptances rates are 2-4% for the top schools and you have to accomplish an exorbitant amount of things to even break into one of the top schools (assuming you don't have a fat check daddy can write)."
The "exorbitant amount of things" have little to do with your aptitude, they say far more about how much time you spent buttering up your dossier to impress an adcom that participates in a laughable circle jerk. That's not to take away from all that buttering, that's an important skill to have when your MD loves bread. I would argue the discrepancy between top school admits and the plebeians is not as pronounced universally as it once was, of course every school has idiots, and sure semi targets have more, but the resources available to the seriously ambitious at both are largely the same. The monopoly persists in alumni networks and allegiances, but I doubt that changes. Why would you consider Harvard or Stanford to a full-ride elsewhere? Not quality of education? Perhaps, the perception from employers/alumni connections?
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I graduated in the bottom-10% of my high school class, and still went to the same BS Ivy League school (no I don’t come from money, I was in the military) the whole target schools are BS, the best asoc on my team went to U of Alabama
> Don't you think it's weird how many kids from semi-targets are able to land good internships nowadays?
Not really, if you pull the right strings you could get a good job out of a non-target. Perhaps in 10-20 years I'll find myself reading an equally ridiculous post about "The Rise of the Non-Target"
> Boutiques are able to step in and offer kids a job after they're denied by the big names
Spoken like a true intern. Many EB's are just as selective as BB's and have been competitive for a while.
> Banks don't have to pitch themselves that much anymore--people learn about them through WSO or alums and the salaries speak for themselves.
Damn, we should get this point to the marketing industry, no need for product placement and ad's on TV when you have word of mouth! Yeah of course there's always been word of mouth idiot, these talks serve to get students interested in the industry and in the company itself. Also you make it sound as if they're sending off half the analysts which is obviously untrue
> The elite schools are not as elite as they once were.
Elite schools are more elite than ever, top uni's have the best candidates and the lowest acceptance rates they've ever. Top uni's are taking an even more disproportionately large amount of top internships/jobs.
> It's a self-inflicted wound by the elite schools, but it basically means they don't have a monopoly on talent like they once did.
Once again completely wrong, dude you seriously sound like you're trying to cope. Someone got rejected from Harvard and it really shows
> And once a semi-target gets its foot in the door
They already have their foot in the door, thats why it's called a SEMI-TARGET. With all these alumni connections and growing endowments their sort of like a target but no quite. Maybe you could call them like a "half target". You did a pretty good job summarizing this stupid post with one stupid sentence.
You're wrong in that prestige for target schools isn't falling whatsoever. It honestly likely never will. Especially in finance. However, your point has merit in that it is much easier to get a job in finance from a semi-target type of place given how much more open banking recruiting has been in recent years and the power of an increased alumni network. To be clear, I went to a non-target, so I clearly benefitted from finance being more accepting of traditionally non-core schools, but it's just wrong to think that elite schools such as ivy leagues are losing their clout.
In essence, technology flattens the world. It is so much easier to network, interview, chat, recruit, everything due to technology. Just like the common app made it easier to apply to many schools, the Hireview makes it way easier for the companies to screen masses from anywhere. I forget which BB announced they were no longer doing OCR (I think JPM), but this trend will continue. The Pandemic eliminated many in person job fairs. Many of those are not going back as the employers have found they can recruit great talent completely virtually. Rather than spending the time and money to travel, they can assign X number of analysts and HR folks to screen Hireviews to a manageable number.
This opens the floodgates to many more universities. I think you'll find internal referring weight to have less influence across the board. Still need to network in some cases just to get a Hireview.
Genie is out of the bottle thanks to tech. That's not a bad thing.
It's not that elite schools aren't where they used to be, it's that they haven't grown at the same rate as the general population. If you assume that there is a relatively fixed percentage of the population that fits into your qualification of "elite" (which I don't really have a good argument for why there wouldn't be), then what you just see is people who couldn't get in simply from space constraints going to other schools. If there was a time when the Ivies could could absorb all of the top 1% in cognitive ability (as an example), they definitely don't have that ability anymore. Not because they can't but because they choose not to, Harvard could readily double their undergrad population with hardly a drop in the bucket of quality, but they don't, so those students have to go to "semi-targets".
I'm a student interviewer for my ivy.
Do you really think that ivy league schools are not elite anymore?
I just interviewed a black girl from a lower middle class family. She has purchased a home via an FHA loan (3.5% down) with money she acquired from her online business, got a near perfect SAT score, has read nearly every investing book (intelligent investor, security analysis, etc.), and is a contract computer science coder for a FAANG company.
These are the types of profiles that are going to ivy league schools today. I would argue that she is more successful than some of my former classmates
The typical near perfect SAT score, social work in Africa, valedictorian, upper middle class asian/white background goes to semi targets now. They would go to an ivy league maybe 10 years ago...
The truth is the world has become more competitive than it was before. There are less students at ivies that want to go into finance also. The ivies are seeking students that are more focused on impact rather than making money.
There are *fewer* students...
"The elite schools are not as elite as they once were. There's a lot of talent that's been pushed away from the elite schools for a variety of reasons."
If there are a variety of reasons, can you list some of them? You don't offer up any substantive evidence.
And finally, let me give you the real reason why banks are starting to hire more from non-targets. I once remember hearing an MD say that the elite college kids are often too smart for their own good. These banks want workhorses who just put their heads down and grind stuff out, not people who are constantly thinking about exit opportunities and wishing for more intellectual projects. In their experience, the hungry state school kid just sits at the desk and churns out models and powerpoints while the HYPMS kids are quickly burned out by the tedious and repetitive workflows. Banking is simply not a job that's suitable for those who are truly intellectually hungry. It may sound pretentious, but MD's themselves know it's the truth.
Yeah.
the most important reason is that less people want to be in IB now, especially in target schools, so banks have to open up for semi-target to have more options.