Timing MBA with Military service
Hey all,
This is my first post on here but I've been a long time lurker. I am a recent graduate of one of the service academies. I recognize that my number one priority for at least 5 years is to serve my country and be the best officer possible. However, I know at some point that I would like to attend a top MBA program and eventually transition into IB/PE.
My dilemma about the MBA is whether I should do it while on active duty or do it once I get out.
Option #1: My branch offers a program where I could be picked up for a MBA and my "job" for 1-2 years would be to go to school and maintain a certain GPA. While I would be in school, I would still receive full pay. The catch however is that I would owe an additional 3-4 years of service. This payback time however would typically be spent in some sort of finance role within the service. After I finished this additional time, I would have the option to leave the service or stay in. SIDE NOTE: While completing the MBA, I would be able to network with other students within the class. However, I would be limited to working at non-profits/government agencies for summer internships. I think not being able to do an IB/PE summer internship plus having to serve additional 3-4 years after my MBA may hurt my chances of landing an offer when I do leave the service.
Option #2: I transition after my service obligation and complete the MBA on my own terms. The only thing that has me nervous about this option is the opportunity costs (tuition, no salary, etc.)
Thank you in advance to responding to my question! I am open to any and all advice.
There's no point in getting an MBA to then dive right back into military service. If you're really that opposed to striking out on your own stay until your Post 9/11 GI Bill vests and then use that for your school costs.
Check your PM
As a recently separated vet heading to bschool this Fall, I would also pick option #2. A free MBA is tempting, but for your goals doing a full-time MBA would be better.
Thanks for the response! I've reached out to several alumni that did Option #1 and very few ended up in IB/PE. I did come across some that were able to land MBB gigs after doing Option #1 but I got the sense from them that it would have been easier doing Option #2 for traditional recruiting and not having to serve more time.
I think this is an easy decision once you answer a difficult question: do you want to stay in the military for 20+ or do you want to get out? If you want to stay in, why would you not take a free-MBA (while making ~$90k/year in O-3 salary)? If you don't see yourself in the military long term, then get out and do the MBA.
I wouldn't stay in the military just for a "free" MBA when you are a junior O-3. Are you really going to get out of the military with 10-12 years in? Probably not.
Option #2 for the on-campus recruiting and internship.
In the meantime, use your tuition assistance benefits (not GI Bill) to do a brand name school's online masters program (Georgetown MSF, Johns Hopkins MS in Applied Econ, etc.), but finish in your first couple years so that you don't pick up any additional commitment. Stay in long enough past your 5 year service academy commitment to get at least partial GI Bill to offset the cost of your MBA and give you BAH.
Sink Navy
Thanks for the response, I never had the GI benefits fully explained to me while at the Academy so I've been doing a lot of my own homework on it. Also is the online masters really that beneficial? I've seen mixed responses on this site on how online educational experience is viewed by the top programs. I did poorly my first year at the Academy but did very well the next 3 years within my major (my major GPA was .7 higher than my cumulative GPA). Besides aiming for 700+ on the GMAT and performing well as an officer, I would welcome anything to help mitigate my cumulative GPA.
Congrats on graduating and best of luck with your service. I'll preface my advice by saying I've never served so I would firstly defer to other officers who have moved onto an MBA program, however I do have some peripheral experience. I'd recommend to try to reach out to some of the alum from your academy who have got their MBA's and are working in finance currently and see what they say.
Generally, I think folks who choose to have their branch sponsor an MBA in exchange for additional service commitment seem to do it to help advance their military career. If you're goal is getting into finance after the military, I would suggest targeting getting out and going full time to an MBA program as a civilian. There are a lot of guys working in investment banking with that profile, and I've personally worked for a number of West Point and USNA grads with MBA's. The prospect of turning down a full-ride for your MBA is difficult, but if you're out of active duty service you'll be much better positioned to land a finance job. Most large banks that recruit their associates from MBA programs do so through summer associate programs between your 1st and 2nd year and will fill the majority of their full time slots with SA's from the summer. Just my two cents.
Quickly my background to provide some context: - Active military officer for ~ 8 years (assessed from OTS) - Got a MA from a "real school" while on active duty, paid nearly nothing, didn't use GI Bill - Left active duty, used 100% GI Bill plus Yellow Ribbon to get MBA from HBS - Stayed in reserves through b-school - Now working in energy sector (not banking or consulting)
Few quick points of advice:
I'd recommend thinking hard now about your personal priority set. What comes first? Family? Country? Unit? Career? Faith? There aren't necessarily right answers, but know that sacrifices in one or more of these areas will have to be made over the course of your service. Some of those sacrifices will be discretionary, others will be dictated. Now is the time, though, to think through how you will deal with those decision points.
You mentioned a few times that your primary goal is now to do well in your primary duty as an officer. This can not be overstated. You owe your troops and your chain of command the best you can possibly offer.
Thinking about your career--always be a year away from leaving the service, and a year away from staying in. By that I mean be doing all the things you need to do to advance to the level you desire whether you're in the service or not. This means get that masters or certification, but also make sure you're completing your PMI, crushing your fitness tests, pursuing developmental opportunities, deploying, etc. I've definitely known people that were 100% certain that they were going to do 30 years in the military and then they got force-shaped out. I've also known folks that were 100% certain they were going to punch and start a civilian career and decided (literally at the last minute) to pull their separation package back. You can really screw yourself if you're not preparing for a long career either in or out of the military.
The service academy network is strong--reach out to some folks who have backgrounds like you who have gone where you think you want to go to get their story.
What makes you now (as you're exiting an academy and moving to your first job) want to do a career switch to finance? Is there something driving this Decision Point? Is the offer for b-school on the table now, but won't be later? In the absence of some outside driver requiring an immediate decision, I would recommend not mentally locking yourself into any one path. Just work hard at your job and see if you like the real military rather than the academy.
Anyway, my two cents. Best of luck to you.
Great response thanks! I realize my post could be construed as saying "this kid just wants to 5 and dive." I just wanted to hear input from a different audience besides officers at the academy on when to aim for getting a MBA/what would be appropriate if I did want to leave the service early. I also really liked what you said about walking the line between making yourself competitive for promotion and a potential civilian career.
I'm also not locking myself into looking at IB/PE, I mentioned that in the beginning to give people on here a reference point for a career I would use that MBA to transition into. I'll probably look through the forums to see how other vets made the change into other careers such as consulting, AM, etc. I have several family members that work in different banks around NYC, and I've used them to learn more about Wall St.
Can I PM you and ask more about how you pulled off the MA while on active duty? I ask not only for myself but I also want to help out the people in my unit with their own professional development. If there's one thing I will make sure my chain of command knows, it's that I'll do everything possible to take care of my people.
I can try to answer any questions you have in this thread--maybe it'll be helpful for others that come across it down the line. Working through the stay-or-go issue is something all of us have to do at some point, it helps to have lots of datapoints.
My advice: Don't tell anyone during your first 3 years. For the people who do know they can fuck right off. 5 years of service is still a lot of your life to give them.
Also, there's a lot of ways to knock out a grad degree while in the service. You can use tuition assistance + take a light class load from any one of the online MSF programs. Georgetown, Indiana, Carnegie Mellon, and Colorado (would recommend Indiana or CU because public program = no out of pocket) all have reputable MSF programs that you can knock out a class at a time.
Only extend your commitment if you want to be a lifer.
Speaking as another vet -> MBA.
Only do it in service if you are 100% sure you want to stay in for the whole 20.
Here would be my gameplan now:
First 3 years: Focus on absolutely NOTHING other than getting top bucket OER's. Your goal here is to get good recommendations you can use later. You aren't going to play the "careerist" suck up game that lifers do, but for now you're going to pretend to.
After you graduate OBC and move to your first unit start being proactive. Since you aren't a careerist I would highly recommend that you work with your chain of command and try to get an assignment based not on WHAT you will be doing or what the title is, but on who you'll be working for. That dream PL/XO job with someone who doesn't like you well enough to give a top rating and hagiographic recommendation won't benefit you as much as working in the ops shop with someone who does. How you sell your jobs and having good recommendations attached will matter more than what you actually do....doubly so because there isn't a direct civilian equivalent to most of the these jobs.
Year 4: Begin studying your GMAT and aim to take the first practice test. Make some cursory informational interviews with other service academy grads in finance. This will be invaluable for being able to craft an application that makes sense. You should be promoted to Captain.
At this point you should have a little bit more moral courage and a little bit more willingness to fall on your sword to protect your soldiers. If you have great recommendations lined up by now then you start to need Army political capital less.
Year 5: Drop your packet. Finalize the GMAT, score over 700, send off applications. At this point you should be strongly prioritizing your next career. Do everything that your duties demand, but also don't be afraid to spend all of your remaining political and social capital at this point if necessary.
Assuming you have a reasonable GPA from the service getting admission top an MBA business schools ">M7 school should be relatively easy if you succeed in everything I suggest here.
AFTER LEAVING:
DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO GET A PRE-MBA FINANCE INTERNSHIP. Do it unpaid if you have to. Do it for the shittiest, local shop in your town. Network with a local corporation and see if you can shadow a financial analyst. Even be a financial advisor. Literally ANYTHING capital markets related will put you in a much stronger position than strictly military experience, because people will know that you will at least understand the concept of financial statements and know what things like primary issues and options are.
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