UNC vs Penn State for retiring military guy
Hello, new to the forum. I have received an acceptance to Penn State and should hopefully find out about UNC on Monday. I will be doing both formats online. With my background I was wondering which one would allow me to transition into either consultation (ie McKinsey, BCG, etc) or finance. (Both are dream job fields)
My background is this: 18 years active duty Navy cryptology(computer network operations), bachelors degree is in Information Technology, and when I finish with my MBA I will be retiring from the military with 20 years of service. I am really curious from other Intel military guys and anyone else that could offer me some advice on any of this; school, post MBA jobs?
UNC assuming you get in.
UNC without a doubt but assuming you only get penn state, i still think you can make it work
UNC if you get in. That said, it's still a steeeep uphill battle to Associate at McKinsey from an online degree, even at UNC. While Kenan Flagler is a target for McK and BCG, I'm not sure if that includes their online program. I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll have the same access to on campus recruiting events, especially if you don't live in the area. So, you'd essentially be applying as a non-target student with an online degree. I'm not at all criticizing your plan, but I think McK and BCG will be a heavy reach and would require extensive networking and personal connections since you will not have the advantages of on campus recruiting at a target program. That said, for someone with a TS/SCI clearance and your IT experience and an MBA, you DEFINITELY can break into a post-MBA consulting position somewhere making very solid money. My hunch is you'd have better opportunities down that road than finance given your background.
Care to share more about your profile/goals? Current rank, undergrad school? Just curious. I'm current AD Navy exiting after 7 years this summer to start my MBA and possibly pursue consulting myself.
Food for thought: http://www.fins.com/Finance/Articles/SBB0001424052970204520204577249783…
I think you can overcome some of this perception due to your military situation, but it's still there and still significant. As you can see in the article linked, McKinsey doesn't recruit those with online MBAs. I suspect the rest of MBB is the same.
UNC if you can get in, but be prepared that your online MBA won't have the same shine in the eyes of McKinsey as a traditional program. Based on your military background you might find it easier to translate your skills into consulting firms that deal with the military and then eventually move over into McK. I know the clock is ticking as you are probably between 38 and 43 years old.
Good luck!
does anyone have info of placement for students of the online degree? or whether or not they're allowed into OCR?
Don't waste your time...go traditional all the way with "some" online classes. In total online programs your professors won't know you personally, they will never be familiar with your work and whether or not you are actually the person doing the work, and you'll never be able to network with the Tarheel Alumni, or the Nittany Lions. In other words you'll never feel like you are "with" you fellow alumni because you didn't suffer, and persevere in the class alongside other future alumni. There is less pressure with online programs and they lack stress Management Strategies.
Don't sweat your military experience or age, I know tons of other alumni who graduated in their fifties and still landed "dream jobs" (if there is such a concept--sorry). Both are good schools so, it depends on how you intend to network yourself, Tarheels usually associate with the Southeastern top schools network and they are very exclusive, Penn State usually associates with Ivy League alumni networks because they are considered an Ivy League State school. So if the other comments here are correct it sounds like McKinsey, BCG, tend to recruit intensively out of UNC. So, UNC sounds like your option.
Umm... Is this a joke?
No...not a joke...LOOK IT UP.
So you're of the opinion that Princeton and PennState alums are all out there chumming it up and have some sort of bond because of this fictional camaraderie they feel since PennState according to you is an "Ivy Leage State School?" I don't buy that whatsoever. Even by "Public Ivy" standards, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy) Penn State is not one. They are a "worthy runner-up" to the "Public Ivies" (That I'm assuming you were originally referring to). Given this, would you also argue that Harvard grads feel kinship and want to network with SUNY Binghampton grads? They're on the same list. They're also on another comparable list on that wikipedia with UC-Irvine.
I know this comes off as being very elitist and is certainly a tangent to the original thread and is seriously not meant to rag on any of the schools mentioned. I didn't go to an Ivy for undergrad and I don't pretend to. I just think it's ridiculous to give the OP the impression that someone going to PennState is going to have some network or bond with students at Ivy League schools. They are not at all the same.
I know that they are out there chumming it together because; I have worked with them personally. State school alumni and Ivy alum mingle and play golf together,, frequently. My family members managed a conglomerate company where both Ivys and non-Ivys controlled the company. I have family who are Harvard and Princeton alum and they all still associate with one another congenially.
Here is a reference from your cherished Wiki: "Penn State has another 19 commonwealth campuses and 5 special-mission campuses located across the state.9 Penn State has been labeled one of the "Public Ivies," a publicly funded university considered as providing a quality of education comparable to those of the Ivy League.1011" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_State_University).
I think that your perception is skewed and naïve. Being an alumni in any capacity requires building a good quality and content of character concurrently with your academic success, that is impartial, balanced, and well informed. This fact is more prevalent so for the Ivy's because, in general people either love them or hate them for their academic backgrounds. They are under a more intense personal obligation to develop the "good" quality of their character. Elitism is WRONG, and not part of the true Crimson way.
So it sounds like the people you know work together, therefore they network together. That makes perfect sense and seems to have nothing to do with where they went to school. This is normal. This is good. This is called networking at your job.
I'm glad to hear you have family that are Princeton and Harvard alums and that they still "associate with one other congenially" despite going to two different top institutions. What a shocker. I too know people from numerous top MBA programs. All of them are great guys who would gladly go golfing and network with a coworker from PennState, UofPhoenixOnline or anywhere else. It would have nothing to do with their school though, it would have to do with the fact that they have a relationship from working together. That's what you're missing. If someone cold-called/emailed them that they had no connection to but went to PennState, they wouldn't stop and go, "Oh, I better get back to this person cause they went to a sort-of-kinda "Public Ivy." Likewise, they wouldn't think that for any actual Ivy either unless it was their alma mater.
I'm neither naive or skewed. I'm realistic. You seem to be taking your personal experience and drawing the conclusion that people who go to PennState (which is only sometimes even defined as a "Public Ivy") have a built-in network with graduates of Ivy League schools. As you sort of finally came around to, NO ONE has a built in network, you build it based on personal relationships regardless of where you go to school. Some schools that's easier than others, but it's on you. For you to tell the OP that going to PennState (for an online program btw) will get him some great Ivy network is bullshit.
Finally, I noticed you have a 1:7 ratio of receiving bananas to receiving monkey shit so it seems you like to put out crap on here a lot and spread it around. I'll move along.
No, I am saying that people with good quality of character tend stay close to one another and protect their networks by avoiding frivolous debates or getting snared in Trolls traps who don't like hearing or reading the truth and throw monkey sht to try and screw up my profile. The Chief Monkey here has informed me that his banana to sht ratio is almost as bad.
You're delusional and downright wrong. Only people who talk about Public Ivies are attendees who have an inferiority complex for some reason. There's NO Public Ivy and P State wouldn't fall into that category.
Back on topic: OP, it's going to hard to break into MBB. Know 1st hand that McKinsey has a veteran hiring initiative for post service/pre MBA vets but it's limited. MBB is a group of brand whores so you either it's MBA business schools ">M7 MBA or an Academy grad.
Think you'd be much better off in DC area at a top defense consultancy and putting that clearance to use.
I agree with your last comment though. D.C., the Federal government, and the contractors do preserve the veterans "protected status," really well. It is probably a good option for him to consider, conversely, if he is determined and ambitious enough, still in good faculties and really wants to break into the industry---the he should go for it. Sounds like it is a matter of whether he really wants to make it happen. I don't think that he should allow anyone to box him into any corner.
Completely agreed. Thank you for trying to talk some sense into this guy. Unfortunately, I think his complex runs way too deep at this point. tombstone will read: "Here lies Countless Capital LLC, a graduate of an almost-sort-of (but definitely not really even close) "Public Ivy" university--if that were a thing that actually existed. Died of an aneurysm related to a Sandusky news story. RIP"
OP, you still there among all this junk? Sorry for getting tangential with the scrum going on. Would love to hear more about your goals and background to offer advice. Fellow vet starting MBA this Fall. I'd lean toward defense consultancy as well given what I currently know about your background and age, and an online MBA could definitely be a good thing for you depending on your end-game and personal factors. Need to be realistic about outcomes though. Feel free to message me privately.
IvyLeagueVet, so my main motivation for an MBA is to translate some of my experience and to learn more about corporate world. Do you think it is better to try and go for the gov't/tech consulting jobs and then try to transition into finance/management consulting? Or do you think trying for one of the vet post-mba hiring initiatives at places like JPM and Credit Suisse? I know that I am much older than many of the other post-mba guys out there, I am currently 38 and will be 40 when I retire. However I do have a very understanding and awesome wife who understands the corporate world hours and we have agreed that if I were to be hired at a great company that I would dedicate my first year to getting my footing in place. Basically treating the job like as if I am back in Baghdad and focus 100% on mission.
I'd figure out what you actually want to do BC you went from consulting to mentioning programs at JPM and CS.
There seems to be a fallacy about age. I know 30+ vets going into Associate roles via GS VIP, BAMLs Vet program and JPM Veteran program. The age "problem" perpetuated on this site is a function of self selection and a majority of college students that pretend to be in the know. You're never too old so get that idea out of your head.
1st, determine your goals. Do you want to shoot for MBB? Or IBs? If those are your goals, UNC MBA won't get you there. If you want to work at Booz Allen in DC using your clearance and cyber security experience making 6 figures, then that's easy with your background so skip the MBA or revisit if the opportunity presents itself.
All of those monkey sh*ts are from one individual.
That list-- "Greene's Guides"-- is highly skewed, subjective, inaccurate, elitist and self-serving for the propagated gain of those particular universities as with many parts of Wikipedia.
Hello everyone. Sorry for the late response, I was waiting on UNC's response before replying so that I could give a full picture of my options. Unfortunately, I did not make the cut for UNC. So, it looks like I will be going PennState, I did though receive another option, Auburn, but I think I will be going with PennState. For Auburn, I was considering them, because of the EMBA program that involved on campus residencies at the beginning of each semester. Like what an early poster commented, I do wish I could go to a brick and mortar school. But alas, I live in Augusta, Georgia area and well, I do not believe any of the local colleges would be better suited to my goals then PennState would.
So, to answer a few of the other questions, my bachelor's degree is from Excelsior (Albany, NY) another online school. The primary reason why I choose them over the other military schools on campus like UMUC, or Phoenix, was because they would accept my brick and mortar classes and they were very military friendly. What I mean by that is that I was able to attend classes at local campus' at different duty stations in person and then was able to transfer those credits to Excelisior to finish with my Bachelor's of Science in Information Technology. I do have a few professional certifications, but they are primarily for my job, ie Certified Ethical Hacker, Security+, etc..
For my professional background, I have been with the Navy for almost 18 years, and a little over 14 of those years has been with a government agency as a Navy CTN. I do have a very solid technical background in this field and I also teach courses as a collateral for this field and for Navy Leadership courses. That being said, even though I have this background and I seem to always be a perfect fit for a lot of Technical leadership jobs, I have been doing this type of work for almost 18 years. About four years ago, I also started volunteering my time as a Command Financial Specialist devoting time to educating young military people on major topics such as basic Investing, Retirement, and Budgeting. While I have been doing this, I have found that I have a strong passion for this field. Although I truly know very little in comparison to many of you, I find the consulting and IBD field very interesting. As for the McKinsey and Goldman Sachs, the reason why I have indicated them as a dream job is because I have read a lot about their in house training programs, something I think would greatly benefit me for a transition to the civilian life and corporate structure.
Well, hopefully I have answered many of your questions to help me out with guidance and mentorship. I truly appreciate any and all advice, whether it is good or bad, it is still information and information that I can utilize to form my own opinions and conclusions. Thank you everyone.
deanS,
Thanks for your detailed response. I still think you can get into consulting. However, MBB, Deloitte S+O, etc is probably not going to give you the time of day. That's just how it is. They're going to see your two online degrees and most likely move right along. If I were you, I would strongly consider tech/network consulting firm or division within a firm that is strong on government/military contracts. I'm not familiar with which specific firms but they're definitely out there and I think you'd be a very viable candidate for some of those roles with the MBA you're currently pursuing. Even without it you'd probably have a strong application for some of these roles. I know that's probably not what you want to hear.
Conversely, your other option if you truly, truly want to have a shot at getting into management consulting is to apply to brick and mortar full-time 2 year programs. You would not be the average military candidate given your age and academic background, but it's not impossible. There are enlisted guys at lots of top schools who work their asses off and do what it takes to get in. You didn't mention your GMAT, but for someone with an online undergrad, you're gonna need to rock it to put the adcoms nerves at ease in order to get into a top 20 school with strong consulting recruiting. You mentioned CA and TX. UCLA (Anderson) and UT (McCombs) could be options if you decide you want to pursue this further and take the time to put together a good application. Combined with a lot of legwork networking with current vets and adcoms at the schools you're applying and strong essays you'd have a legitimate shot (with a >700 GMAT). If you did all that, I'd say you'd have a decent shot at schools in that range. This is clearly a higher risk pursuit for someone at your age who already has great skills/certs you could use to land a job in government IT/network consulting making easily over 110k/yr.
Small side point here. If I were reviewing your application I wouldn't view the Command Financial Specialist as volunteer work and I would recommend you not present it as such. It is something you go to a Navy class for (1-2wks?) and then do as a collateral duty to your everyday job at work. This is different than volunteering in the community or something on your own time. For non-military here, I'd say it's more akin to a consultant having other firm responsibilities they devote time to such as campus recruitment or some internal initiative. All the work takes place at work and it's part of your job, it just makes your FITREP/Eval look a little better for going the extra mile to contribute. However, it's pretty much expected and often mandated for someone in any position of leadership. While I was a division officer I had numerous different jobs like this. Stuff like CFS as well as managing the command's equal opportunity program and anti-sexual assault programs. It all sounds nice, but I wouldn't call it volunteering on an application.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. For background, I've got 7yrs Navy in the Surface community and am resigning this summer to pursue a T-10 MBA and hopefully break into consulting. You are welcome to private message me with any questions.
Oh, as far as location, I understand that NYC, Boston, and DC area's would be optimal in this field. But if were talking US locations, I am originally from Texas and have many relatives in California so those would be great, and Hawaii, but I know that for these types of positions there are not many if any jobs in that area. Overseas, I have lived in Japan and Italy, so Tokyo and Rome are great cities, but I also like Hong Kong, Australia, Germany, Spain, France, and that area. I am also not opposed to going to the middle east, Qatar is pretty awesome, but would prefer not to have be going to Baghdad. Oh and also to answer one of the other questions, no I do not have PTSD.
UNC is NOT a target school for McK, Bain and BCG. They cumulatively take less than 5 consultants annually. UNC is a Deloitte school (10-15 annually). Fortunately you are an American, so your chances of landing a great job are higher as compared to your non-American peers. Also, you should try to join the full time program as I have honestly never heard of the transition from online MBA to Consulting. I suspect networking opportunities are limited in online MBA.
Also, with your background I think you can do better than UNC/Penn.
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