What was the point of Ivy League? Major Regret and Depression
Hi everyone,
I attended Wharton for undergrad, did a MF PE analyst program in New York, and now am an associate at the same firm in the London office.
I attended Wharton because of my interest in finance and the reputation the school has for being the top in the world. It cost me $120,000 to attend.
Being in the London office, I am working with people from all over the world. My colleagues come from schools like Oxford, University of Sydney, and various other schools spread out amongst Europe.
After talking with them, I realized a few things…
1) Their schools are extremely cheap to attend. The most expensive was Oxford, which cost $45,000. This is a third of what it cost to attend Wharton.
2) Their college experience was easier. They take one exam at the end of each year. This is in contrast to the constant quizzing, exams, and homework that I went through at Wharton.
3) The only people at my firm who have heard of Wharton are the other Americans. My European colleagues have only heard of Harvard. Again, I was under the impression that Wharton was a top business school so this came as a massive surprise to me that people working in the finance industry had never even heard of it.
I feel extremely depressed thinking back to college. It makes me extremely upset thinking about how much me and my family paid to attend Wharton. I feel like I was completely lied to about the benefits of Wharton and Ivy League in general. I don’t feel like I have benefited from the alumni network, the brand of the school, or the curriculum itself that was taught. I have been constantly depressed about it and have been suffering severe regret.
I know this is a finance forum and not a therapy session, but I just felt like I needed to vent. I’ve been extremely down the past months and haven’t been able to pull myself out of it. Thank you for listening.
You're ~4 years into your career and are constantly depressed / severely regretting where you went to UG? If you are feeling spited over the $120k you / family paid for Wharton, help pay your family back... you're a MFPE associate. Not trying to diminish your post / way you feel, it just strikes me as odd that your coworkers not having heard of Wharton (which seems...doubtful, if you're really at MFPE) and the tuition you paid are making your spiral like this.
You have a great career ahead of you, don't focus so much on what's behind
You landed a MF PE offer, how was the decision not a wild success?
In a high finance career $120K is a drop in the bucket when you have career earnings potential in the millions or 10's of millions; pay your parents back with interest in the future if you feel so bad
This is the most ridiculous first would problem I've ever heard. The work was harder? You'll be thanking them down the line for the preparation
ok I'm gonna stop you right there and highlight how fortunate you are to have attended Wharton: yes in London you will see people from other UK targets like Oxbridge, Imperial etc, hell even Warwick will pop-up more than a few times and will make you question why the hell you paid so much for Wharton if you could break in from much cheaper places but this is flawed reasoning. UK recruitment doesn't work off of OCR, we have to go through online testing, multiple interviews/hirevues etc and ultimately, as there isn't much of a concept of resume pushing at BB/EB, there's huge degree of uncertainty in the London recruiting process. Even attending Oxbridge, you gotta be on the ball with applying early, making sure your on societies and can do enough practise to pass online tests each bank does. And then there's the impact of randomness that is less prevalent at top US schools as I have seen people at HYP/Wharton put in minimal effort for networking and still land decent MBB/EB gigs. Banks come to you at top US targets to court you, interview you and push your CV; its leagues different to how it is in the UK. For every 5 LSE people you see, 15-30 didn't make the cut
Sure banks come visit campus but its usually for generic talks, the power of recruiting from them is much weaker. Wharton also has the strongest buyside recruiting network out of undergrad in the world imho - your Oxbridge counterparts probably had to push through the deluge that is the shitshow of london sellside recruiting, do an IB stint and then lateral over. Your school is one of the best in the world, saying their college experience is easier is tone-deaf since at Oxbridge at least many courses require them to write 5000 word essays every week (and they don't even get credit for this) - many europeans in finance have certainly heard of Wharton and would kill to go there, unsure what's with your colleagues tbh but obviously Europeans will have a stronger understanding of their own schools. Unsure why you recruited for London/work in London though, seems many undergrads/new hires in Europe tend to want to go to the US for higher pay and better opps but to each their own.
TLDR; Wharton made recruiting for MF PE much easier than most Oxbridge hires, even if it was more expensive.
OP here, and actually I’m gonna stop you right here.
Based on your post history you’re a college student who failed to break into the finance industry at all and are still waiting on your A levels. I have no idea why your entire post history consists of you giving out career and salary advice given that you don’t even have a job.
Secondly, I have no idea how you know what recruiting is like at US colleges for MBB/EB careers considering, again, that you’re a British citizen who has never lived, studied, or worked in the US.
Lastly, I transferred to the London office due to better firm culture, an international experience, and to further build out our European network after being asked by the partners at my fund. I know your biggest concern is the “increase of pay” you get from working in the US, so I fully understand why you don’t realize the intricacies and dynamics that come with managing an actual PE career besides just the salary that comes with it.
TLDR; You’re a student who couldn’t get a job in the industry. Stop posting advice like you actually work in finance.
Couldn't get a job in the industry..? You realise i haven't actually recruited yet right? -In fact every pre-university pipeline from BB to prop trading I've applied to I've managed to get onto so I'm already on the track but that's neither here nor there. Like I'm actually confused if you understand how recruiting works in the UK because you somehow think getting into PE out of undergrad isn't exceptional (and was only doable because you went to a top-rated school in the US). I give advice because I'm well read and have mentors/people I know in the USA (who are actually the people helping me prepare for the first part of recruiting in the UK) who have been kind enough to explain how recruiting works over there compared to London. Didn't realise you had to live in the US to understand how recruiting/reputation there works - but by using this moronic logic wouldn't that also explain why EUROPEANs might not have heard of Wharton either and so it shouldn't reflect poorly on the school at all? - Not that this is the case at all because yk, you don't need to eat shit to realise it probably doesn't taste great... I'm not verified, if anyone takes my advice without a grain of salt then they deserve to fail , I can only say what I know and people are free to agree/disagree with me.
My biggest concern isn't increase of pay, nor did I suggest it was for you, but many people would think twice before moving somewhere they know they'll take a salary hit so wondered why you would want to leave since you'd undoubtedly have reasons for doing so more important than money. All you had to say was: yeah firm culture better in London. That would have been it. I'm sorry you're depressed and I hope that gets better for you but I don't think you really understand how much Wharton has helped you to get where you are and how much it can help you in the future. Oxbridge grads don't even get into MF PE out of undergrad, whether or not that justifies paying how much you did is up to you, I just wanted to put your story into context. No need to cry about it.
You are without a doubt the whiniest fucking person I've seen on this sub. You're pitching a bitch fit over paying a bunch for Wharton and starting at a MF right out of undergrad? You've made enough money at this point to pay off all your loans and then some with reasonable saving, full stop. Holy fuck talk about entitled.
Privileged fuck
I was super poor and grew up on food stamps and got a 1580 on the SAT by using borrowed prep books from the library. I wanted to go to Wharton - they rejected me. I went to a low ranked extreme nontarget and spent countless hours on hundreds of networking emails and applied to everything I could before breaking into a BB. Most people wouldn’t open my email or help me out, simply because of the name of the school on my resume. Going by test scores, I was just as smart as the Ivy League kids, but since I didn’t have the elite credentials, almost no one in banking would give me a shot, much less MF PE. Because the reality is your school brand is just that important, and there’s doors that are closed unless you go to top schools. $120,000 for Wharton is one of the best investments you can make, and if you’re too dumb to see the countless intangible and tangible benefits that it’s given you, that’s on you buddy.
It takes much more than good test scores to get into any Ivy let alone Wharton.
Yeah having your daddy cut a fat check helps too
Aww you had to go to Wharton? That's so sad bro... lemme pour one out for you
I went to a private school in a developing country - so while I had a cushy upbringing, I was surrounded by people who didn't. My school was big into charity and service to the community so for one events for school credit, we had to go visit the AIDS hospice and the nursery with the AIDs children. They, despite being doomed to death within a few years, appeared to have a more positive attitude than you.
Your mistake was going back to London. Wharton degrees are meant for freedom, not living under a Queen. Did you even get the proper license to make this post? Smh.
This has to be be one of the more ridiculous posts I’ve seen. I am not sure why you care about how people view Wharton at this stage in your career. If you really feel bad about how much your family paid for Wharton, then maybe you should put your money where you mouth is an pay it back to them—we all know you can afford to with your job (which you were able to get because of Wharton).
Hindsight is 20/20. Wharton has given you significant optionality and you are just on one of the many paths that Wharton opened up for you. What if your peers wanted to do MF PE in US? It would probably be a lot more difficult for them. Also, you have some survivorship bias because you are only seeing the successful ones from those schools. With your logic, even your peers education is a scam and waste of money because you could have dropped out of college and founded a multi billion dollar startup. I thought people from Wharton were more intelligent.
Hi OP, I know you’re getting roasted by everyone in here but I thought I could contribute since we have similar backgrounds.
My background: Attended Ivy for undergrad (not Wharton), did a MF PE analyst program, but decided to go the hedge fund route rather than staying in PE.
Personally, I don’t feel like attending Ivy League made much of a difference in my life. The reason I say that is because at each stage of my career I’ve worked with kids who came from State Schools, Flagship Publics, and various smaller schools. What I’ve come to realize is there’s a lot of paths that eventually all lead to the same place.
Does this mean you should break down and regret the specific path you took? I don’t think so. But I do think it’s great that you made this post. I think more students should be aware of how many different paths to success exist and that attending college in the US, especially an expensive Ivy League, isn’t the end all be all of things.
Nonetheless, if you want to PM each other I’d be happy to. Would be great to compare our PE experiences and can talk a little more about our careers up to this point.
I just don't understand this mindset- I went to a different top ivy and ended up at a less prestigious job than you (non-top IB) and I still don't understand this mindset at all.
Sure, I work with kids who graduated from Ohio State or whatever random school. But these kids from non targets are literally the top of their class from that school and have networked their ass of to get where they are. I was drunk all the time and got straight Bs, and I promise you if I went to a non target I would've had no chance of landing an IB gig. Like someone else mentioned, it's survivorship bias. Just because it is theoretically possible to get to whatever job from a nontarget school, your odds are obviously way better from wharton.
You work in PE so let's do some risk analysis... if 1 kid from OSU in a class of 10,000 goes to MFPE and 10 kids from a wharton class of 600 go to MFPE, are these two schools the same because both place into MFPE?
This person is either a troll or a horrible person. 120k is half the cost of what Wharton costs, you make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and you're complaining that a few of your colleagues don't know the name of your school? Then, you shit on someone for trying to offer positive advice by saying they don't know anything and aren't cut out for finance. I wish nothing but the worst for you.
Aw I’m so sorry :( poor OP only landed MFPE out of undergrad! How will you ever feed your family?
It sounds like your main complaint is that your co-workers won’t suck your dick over your undergrad degree, since A2A MF progression says placement wasn’t the issue.
Get over it, or build a time machine and apply to Harvard.
I bought ten powerball tickets and I won. I wish I'd just bought the one with the winning numbers and saved myself the other nine bucks.
I’m an American citizen and a rising Oxbridge first-year, so I think I can add some perspective to your post.
tl;dr - Oxbridge is not cheaper, easier, or more well known
You’re ridiculous. You went to a top 3 business school worldwide, are working in PE out of uni and are probably making £100-200k a year easily. You lived in the US and now work in London. You’re doing what you want. Stop bitching like a little girl and start realizing how fortunate you are. I literally cannot believe someone is complaining his world class education wasn’t worth the £100k + he’s making.
Disappointing you worked a bit in college ? Less fortunate people will work their ass off for a tenth of the opportunities you had.
Plus, sorry to say but if you compare to other school systems like France (prep school), Hong Kong and Japan, you worked a lot less than these guys.
As for tuition fees, what you’re failing to see it Oxbridge students may have paid £50k for uni, but in London you’re making £80-100k max out of college, not $150-200k like in NYC. Would have assume you have a taste for benchmark and currency conversion after Wharton. If you didn’t want to make big money in the States, stop crying on here, that’s your choice.
The sad thing is that your degree is so important to you to the point of hurting your ego. The reality is people don’t care where you went to school as everybody is already in the top 1%. Don’t expect people to bow when you enter in the room and treat you like a semi god.
EDIT: I just realised, your family paid for Wharton? So you didn’t even pay anything yourself and your complaining ? Is this a joke ?
100% OP is Asian. Such a prestige and external validation whore, quite pathetic.
Nope, am 100% white. Also, the entire point of my post was saying that I wish I went to a cheaper/more fun school rather than Wharton. That’s literally the opposite of seeking external validation and caring about prestige.
And lastly, your comment is pretty disgusting and blatantly racist against Asians. I know you were trying to make a cheap joke and be edgy, but maybe one day you’ll grow up and realize your jokes shouldn’t come at the expense of stereotyping an entire race.
I just wanted to add a follow up comment so future readers can see this.
OP sent me a PM and we got into contact. I’m currently a first year analyst in New York and OP arranged for me to have a lunch meeting with a Principal at his PE fund here in the city.
I have no idea what is wrong with all of you. 99% of the content on this site is from high schoolers and college students. Then when someone who actually works in the industry decides to post, you all do nothing but fling monkey shit, name call, and bombard them with attacks.
OP deciding to post has led to me getting a meeting which can potentially change my life and career. This is the type of content I come on this site for and am beyond grateful this happened. OP was nothing but helpful, classy, and humble when talking with me.
You all can go ahead and keep throwing silver bananas at other college students. I hope you all enjoy your imaginary bananas. I’ll enjoy my meeting and actually building my career in real life. A MF PE associate decides to vent on here, and this is how you all react.
Thank you again to OP and thank you to this site for making this happen for me.
Go ahead and fling the monkey shit boys. I’m out ✌🏼
Sorry I can't understand anything you are saying whilst OP's ballsare lodged in your throat