Why Are Wharton / Penn People Insufferable to Network With?
I'm at the point where it benefits me to do some cold networking again. I've had a pretty good response rate so far, all things considered.
I went to Wharton. Someone tell me why 0/5 Penn people have responded to me? Why are Penn people like this? It was like this during my banking days too.
State school kids / nontarget kids think twice about how easy it is for target school people - at least your fellow alums will respond to you.
I also want to add this: the handful of times I networked successfully with other Penn people, they never threw me a bone.
All of my opportunities in banking came from state school people or even other Ivy Leaguers putting the good word in for me. Wtf?
Exact same boat here. My best networking has come from state school/smaller school guys/girls with less traditional backgrounds. Only ever encountered one ivy-leaguer who truly went to bat for me and she had an ivy masters and state school undergrad.
My man really said "think twice about how easy it is for target school people" - boo hoo man it must be super hard
How many Penn kids trying to network w/ you have you thrown a bone?
Every single time without question, though I didn't do banking at a BB. I'm sure Penn people at BBs get inundated with outreach.
Might have something to do with the fact that they are, buy and large, the biggest dickheads in finance (I went to Penn btw)
Penn kids see other Penn kids as competition, others will bend over backwards for their own.
The thing about "target" schools is that they have excellent access to all of these "official" pipelines, campus visits/coffee chats, events, and other tracked and school-facilitated exposure so that enough are able to convert this way leaving those who don't out in the cold amongst an alumni network that always had the opportunities placed in front of them to capitalize on so they never had to actively or creatively source an opportunity first and then capitalize on it the way "non-targets" have built up the skill and calluses to do so.
Many Penn kids are content existing within the track they're in and not deviating outside of it. Those at the top of the prestige opportunity ladder literally had recruiters, campus reps etc. place the job roles in front of them so that skillset of grittily sourcing the opportunity to have a shot isn't something they've had to do, something that ultimately hinders them long-term as they eventually get to a point where they're no longer inundated with recruiters etc. and have to think for themselves for the very first time at 30 years old getting our hustled creatively by those who went to a "lesser" school.
You can see this in target vs. non-target networking norms where non-targets always go to bat for their fellow alum whereas fellow target alum either ignore you or are at best indifferent and rarely actively bat for you. Straight up there are also a lot of Penn kids for whom the idea of helping someone else for any reason at all is entirely foreign.
People also assume that bc you're from a target "you have tons of opportunity" but when everyone expects someone else to take that shot on you you end up with a very small opportunity set. There is also a small growing bias towards actively not hiring "target school" kids due to the impression they're "entitled" or "snobby" (which there are enough out there who do play into everyone's stereotypes to give us all a bad name).
Well said. In the professional world, I've found many Penn graduates are cold-blooded, opportunistic, and withdrawn. If you don't provide clear, obvious, and relatively immediate value to them, you may as well provide none at all.
To add to your point, many people overlook the selection bias that goes into becoming a Penn (especially Wharton) student. If you're at Wharton undergrad, there's a higher chance you've been groomed by your parents to become a finance professional. I knew so many kids that by their Sophomore year were 100% confident they had a Goldman Sachs position or a position at a Tiger Cub, and they ended up being right because their parents were rich, powerful, and well connected. They didn't need to worry about networking - it was already done for them.
To many of the "old money" undergraduate alums (which I would guess at ~35% of the student body and no more because Wharton has done a decent job balancing pleasing old money admits and paving the way to give middle and lower class people opportunity), I suspect a Wharton person reaching out to them is a signal they aren't well connected enough to be worth helping.
I'm sure many Penn people reading this are familiar with "Penn Face". Like I said above, 35% of the student body is already going to be generally unwilling to help. Other Wharton undergrads see this behavior and further exacerbate it with the "Penn Face" mentality, making even more of Penn / Wharton unwilling to entertain networking.
"If someone is networking, that means they're asking for help. Asking for help is wrong and weak"
"buy" and large? lol
no one owes you anything lmao
It's not about owing me anything. IMO, it's about camaraderie -- at the end of the day, you should help your fellow alums out because (1) you're on the same team and (2) it elevates your school's reputation
I see helping your alums out as like being on a sports team. You should just help your teammate out.
Harald said it well "If you don't provide clear, obvious, and relatively immediate value to them, you may as well provide none at all."
Recent ex of mine went to Wharton (MBA) and hanging out with her and her b-school classmates...man, just a bunch of shallow, status driven people. Her idea of an insult was telling someone who went to Harvard Law School and makes USD 500k as an 8th year associate was "that's it?" which she later tried to justify to me with a "oh its just I know people 2 years out of MBA who make that" (mind you, said ex made half that a year in her bs strategy job at a tech company).
She was just an insecure twat lol. When I was networking trying to break into banking back in the day there were some really cool laid-back folks I met that went to Ivies and were willing to lend a hand and they embraced it. Unfortunately, some (particulary old money WASP-y) find it weak while others embrace it. Honestly, I just feel that people tend to be super full of themselves and its really not that serious. I actually had someone that went to Wharton reach out to me back then on Linkedin and ask for help. I didnt see anything wrong with it but then again I went to a non-target. We are still cool to this day. Hes doing well for himself working at a LO HF.
Mind you, this is someone who "didnt hang out with the finance peeps at Wharton mostly because she found them elitist" and she feels a bit insecure about being one of the only people in her friend group who actually had to take out loans for their MBA.
Whaton grads are weird. I went to go visit for B-School and the whole school turned me off. The one Wharton grad at my office (he went UG & MBA) is incredibly weird. No clue how this guy ever got a job but he cannot network, has no social skills, but damn can he put a powerpoint together but his excel skills are ehhh. I actually feel bad for the guy because I do not think he has any activities powerpoint.
Did an MBA, not undergrad at Wharton, but this just wasn’t my experience…
Would say most of my colleagues who went into banking were genuinely good people who outside of 2 months of focused recruiting really just wanted to have two years to travel, pick back up old hobbies, enjoy life and not have to think about work for a while.
Don’t know how you’re filtering people but if you’re looking at MM PE funds or top groups in leading banks, the people you’re reaching out to could be getting 20+ inbounds a week.
If you went to Wharton for undergrad, any reason not to start with former classmates with mutual funds in the industry? Lots of alumni who are eager to help but only have so many hours in a day…
Sorry that your experience has not been positive.
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