can someone give me insight on the culture at a physical trading house (vitol, trafigura, mercuria)
what’s the culture like? What are the hours? How often do you have to travel as a physical/ commodity trader? How much paid leave do you get? if anyone from the industry or anyone at these firms could answer these questions.. it would be greatly appreciated
Seems like half the S&T threads these days are on physical trading. Not complaining, but interesting.
I'm an incoming at one of the firms you mentioned and I'm not sure "super lucrative" is how I'd describe my salary/expected salary progression (or trading firms in general for that matter). I do agree that the industry is probably more resilient than its WS counterparts, and hope that trading firms will continue to be adaptable (my perception is that this is something hardcoded into their DNA by nature of what they do). But even if work doesn't get automated/disappear, seats are very limited to begin with. An entire global team of a commodity for example might only have 20-30 dedicated employees across multiple functions. Doesn't mean I'm not excited about the career path though.
If you have been on a news fast for the last 3 months, now would be a good time to break it.
Can speak to this, work the industry.
Pay for jr traders $100,000. Standard I know of is about $2/300k range, though I know heads running books making a couple mil all in.
Often take home some of their book. Hours are generally 7:30/8 - 6:30, occasionally after 8. Of course this is in office, I know a lot of calls are made from home given physical is more logistical. Travel can be huge, once a month is probably the least you’ll do, often to the ‘source’ (refinery or smelter is common).
interesting industry for sure, just know that you won’t trade for 5+ years in most shops - you run MO/BO roles with fancy job descriptions but awful roles.
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Where did you get the impression there is a culture at a company? Do you mean office, desk, what? My boss is not like the boss of another department. Please, I hope this doesn't surprise you. My advice, work for a small shop. Get your hands dirty, learn in the ins and outs, get close to a senior trader and follow him/her to client meetings. Cargill, Gencore, Trafi, Merc, they're big companies now. They aren't as lame as banks but they're trying their hardest to close the gap. If you're worried about culture, stick to a bank. When you are doing something real, rather than playing computer games, you realise that there are more important things than the correct shirt, suit, shoe combination.
I actually don't think that joining a smaller shop from the ground up is necessarily the optimum scenario. Before making the move, I started out with a bigger shop (think oil major / utility company.) and I really appreciated the training mentality of these places versus 'smaller' companies.
I am not saying that they are a bad place to begin. Far from it, for the right individual, this would work well and ultimately if one is committed to the sector they should take whatever 'in' they find. But, if I was starting out again and I was faced with that choice, I would still opt for a more structured programme of a larger corporation than the route you described.
I would also disagree regarding culture. Yes, dress code doesn't equate good/bad culture (although you will find that the trading houses are very prim and proper when it comes to fashion!) and yes this is a highly pressured workplace where attitudes differ vastly from desk to desk. However, working in an environment which suits your personality and with colleagues who you can be close and productive with are important cultural considerations for any job and caring about these does not make you unsuitable for this business.
I might chime in here. Company and desk culture is pretty important for a shop whether big or small. I’ve worked at places where they thought they were too big to fall that made them fairly arrogant in the market, and a small shop that appreciates business relationships.
Desks I have worked on and managed are driven by a no bullshit and fast pace environment. Teams must be available at all times, it’s not unheard of working on weekends dealing with shippers to have our cargo ready alongside ship for loading. There are accountabilities to your actions, and if you fuck up you will be in the lime light for a very long time until you prove yourself worthy again.
My desk is an extended family, and at times I see them more than my actual family. Everyone is across what others are doing and can pick things up for colleagues if they are travelling or busy with issues at home etc. Sick or holiday leave? We don’t care to be honest, most the time you can keep them accruing on your balance. Instead take a day or three off, we’ll cover your back. When our time comes you will too.
I wouldn’t consider joining any desk that doesn’t have a family-like or camaraderie culture, and to me that is what physical trading is.