CFA Level 3 or Learn Programming (Python/R)?
Background: 2 years front office experience in derivs sales/market analytics and 2 years in commodities research on a trading desk. Currently in the back office after commodities firm blew up and looking to move back to the front office at current BB.
I've been really debating signing up for CFA Level 3. I passed the first two easily and it was definitely a big time commitment. Having not really seen much of a return or difference in the job hunt both internally and externally, I'm hesitant to sign up for Level 3. Again, I do understand becoming a Charterholder is by no means a golden ticket. It seems a lot of the roles I'm interested in require some understanding of Python or R, and I feel my time would be better spent learning new languages while obviously continuing to network hard to make the successful transition to the front office. I feel I can always pass Level 3, which I intend to, but I'm thinking that picking up some data science skills and automation through Python would be a much better resume booster than passing Level 3. Just curious to hear everyone's thoughts before the early registration deadline ends.
What roles are you looking at?
I just passed Level III and I can speak to that aspect of your question. While it’s definitely not a golden ticket anywhere, it definitely will give you a leg up over other candidates. The designation is more of a signal of character and ability to learn than outright aptitude. It says that you can dedicate your time and effort to passing a series of strenuous tests while working full time and balancing everything. My feeling is that stopping without sitting for Level III may signal you don’t see things through. Obviously this could be talked around in an interview, but it’s worst case scenario...
Targeting roles within S&T and Asset Management (Credit Research, Market Data Analytics, Fixed Income Investments)
What motivated you to take the CFA? Did you feel it helped you in your recruiting efforts after passing any one of the three levels?
I was motivated to take the CFA for two reasons:
1) I was in a role I was worried about being "pidgeon-holded" in and wanted to make myself stand out against other candidates should I want to change jobs 2) I wanted to better myself, continue learning and gain a designation that is respected by all finance folks
In my case, being a candidate (I was a Level III candidate at the time) definitely helped me get my new job. I was looking for more of an operational finance role, but it turned out that one of the things this company was looking for in applicants was progress towards the CFA (I'm in a niche private equity space now).
Another thing - you can always learn Python or some other language down the road, but you can't always dedicate 300+ hours to a once-a-year test over a 6mo stretch, especially if you're starting a family (so i'm told)...
Personal opinion, take the CFA level 3. Computer science guy here, python is an incredibly easy programming language to learn. Here is a recommendation of a youtube video you should watch.
MileHighMonkey definitely concerned about being pigeonholed in my current role...
Another reason why I'm 50/50 on taking L3 is having seen some smart colleagues pass all three levels and still pigeonholed to their current role. Again, there's many factors at play such as a lack of networking or bad timing.
It's like that in most roles. Getting a new job is just hard bruh. Would be harder without the CFA I believe though...
To be honest, most of what you learn in the tests isn't directly applicable to the workplace, unless you work in ER. I've forgotten a lot of what I'd learned throughout the last three years of studying, but as I mentioned above the tests signal an ability to learn and be disciplined, not an overall level of aptitude (to a degree). The designation is not the golden ticket by any means, but when a recruiter is looking at two resumes that are identical other than the CFA experience, CFA applicant should win 9/10.
Well I just signed up for Level 3 lol. Other than that, any other advice on how I can successfully transition back to the front office? Crazy how I have 4 years of front office experience and still finding it incredibly difficult to transition. Maybe I need to work on my resume as the bullet points for my current role are shit? Finding it difficult to make the role sound remotely interesting. Thinking of using the WSO resume review service as well.
OP -
What made you curious about exploring programming?
BB is pushing hard for automation, AI, and data science. Already seeing teams losing headcount as technology is increasing efficiency. I kid you not, I saw an ops role posted that wanted someone with Python skills! To me this signals that basic programming skills will be a requirement for roles that traditionally never required anything more than Excel. In addition, a lot of interesting roles on the front office side are requiring basic programming skills as data analytics is being incorporated to better serve clients. I'm exploring programming to make myself more competitive on paper, stand a better shot at transferring internally to a front office role, and to not be one of those old timers that got wiped out during the introduction of Windows 95 lol.
I'm learning both R and Python since two years while studying (business major) and doing internships. I find that most internships and entry-level jobs require more than intermediate skills in these languages with experience in working on larger projects. Usually the companies prefer CS majors for these roles and then teach them the necessary finance knowledge. I read that MS, JPM and other banks started to provide coding classes to their FO staff. Mostly basic python for traders. But I haven't personally seen any of that. Might be because I'm in Europe. My point is that just because you see lots of interesting job descriptions with python or R doesn't mean it would be 1. easier as a CFA level to pick up programming languages or 2. lead to a considerable improvement in your job prospects. In my experience you would have to put in lots of effort and time to get to a level that employers recognise.
BTW I just registered for CFA level I. I would be glad to hear what lessons you learned while studying for level I and II?
Sorry for the late reply, was on a much needed vacation! CFA Level I is easy if your undergrad was in Finance or Econ because felt mostly like a review to me. Be prepared to give up your weekends and some time after work for 4-6 months to comfortably pass. CFA Level II definitely felt more quantitative/technical but again 4-6 months of serious studying and you can comfortably pass. I think CFA Level II is also very helpful in preparing you for interviews as the study material covers valuation, derivatives pricing, and financial statement analysis.
I agree that for quant/strat/data science roles employers look for math/CS degrees and strong working knowledge of multiple programming languages. From my observations, there seems to be a big shortage of individuals with basic programming skills to quickly manipulate vasts amount of data, generate reports, and automate tasks. You would be surprised how bad some people are at Excel even to this day at banks. Thus, having basic SQL, Python, or R on your resume easily impresses, and the firm is providing the resources (in house training or paying for coding bootcamps) to train people to better handle the integration of these languages into existing systems. The task or goal may be the same at the end of the day, but the efficiency gains is the real value add. In addition, the influx of all this new data is slightly changing the function of roles as you're asked more often to find an answer to a question utilizing data. I work with a ton of data as we're getting more granular, and Excel is just starting to not cut it these days. Hope this helps!
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