Is it easy to switch from S&T to another banking divison?
Hi everyone,
I will begin my Master studies in Banking and Finance in Switzerland this autumn.
I've been trading my own account for a few years now and its what I'm most interested it, so I'm looking to get into S&T. However, there is so much gloom and doom about it, and massive layoffs are worrying me.
Assuming I get a S&T role in one of the Swiss banks, would it be easy to switch to another divison after some time? I would like to stay in S&T, but I have to prepare for the worst-case scenario anyways.
Thank you
No, I think it will be a bit difficult for you to change
Product area lateral moves in S&T (Originally Posted: 03/16/2010)
I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are in terms of lateral movements and/or exit ops in S&T when you work in one product area to another i.e. Commodities (energy or base metals) to say Fixed Incomes, or Equities to Fixed Income etc.
The trading methodologies are interchangeable however the products differ and trade in different ways. If you want to make a move from one area to another is it too difficult because you become pigeonholed?
As a general rule, the guy who sells/trades hybrid exotic interest rate products on a Fixed Income desk can easily make markets/pitch Listed Cash Equities.... the reverse? not so much
CD~
you do get pigeon-holed. that is inevitable. pick the right thing early.
rates to fx (or reverse) is managable. commodity to mortgage is tricky... usually it's micro to micro or macro to macro, but even rates to commodities is rare...
ppl ask you "why do you want to switch". you'd better have good answers.
Moving around as S&T Analyst (Originally Posted: 08/14/2013)
I recently started as an S&T analyst but was hired directly to a sales desk. Not sure that sales is really what i want to be doing for the long haul. How often do analysts move around to different products, across sales and trading, and how difficult would mobility be at the analyst level (moving to different banks in different roles)?
Would also like to know this...
It's not easy while you're an analyst, although this may differ between banks. Obviously your own bank would prefer you to move internally to you leaving for another bank, but that doesn't mean that will happen. Honestly, it's probably easier to move to buy side/prop trading and start over (which is still not easy) than to go to a new group at an analyst level.
Usually what you want does not play a large role in what management thinks you want/can do well. When I was in S&T, I was told after I was already leaving that the head of another group (that I would have enjoyed working for more) had wanted me but the head of my group turned him down because he thought I would be better in his group. Basically there are two ways to have more control over moving around in this industry: 1. Get promoted. 2. Move to a smaller and less corporate/political place.
How difficult is it to break into S&T (Sales) at the Associate level?
Not sure on an absolute level, but relative to S&T trading as an Associate, it's much easier.
Depending on the bank internal mobility can be likely. If these firms view you as a huge talent they will do what they can to make you happy. Moving between firms in the first 1-2 years is very hard unless you've already established yourself as a BSD
I find it somewhat hard to believe that your first role out of school is the only career path you can follow. Would a sales analyst role help if trying to start over as an analyst at another bank in trading/research/structuring. Is there really that little flexibility?
Of course there is flexibility, but it all depends on how much experience/rank/salary you want to sacrifice. I was under the assumption that you did not want to start over, but it could be easier if you do (not necessarily though, since a lot of firms want "blank slates" to work with.
Look at it this way.
Research can become a trader or a sales person Trader can become a sales person Sales people have a hard time moving
The younger you are the easier it is to move within different roles, but it wouldn't be strange to see a senior trader become a senior sales person.
As for products - the more complicated the product the easier it is to move. Distressed -> HY -> IG but not the other way around.
Moving around always come down to one thing: you have to make another person believe you can be an asset to them. If you can do that you can move anywhere you want. It comes down to performance and being able to establish relationship.
Currently in S&T, thinking of switching into tech (Originally Posted: 01/22/2014)
Hello WSO,
I am currently an undergraduate intern at a top FICC desk at a BB in NYC. During my internship, I have been thinking about switching into tech. I am a computer science major with strong coding skills and I study at a Silicon Valley target school in the US west coast. The main deciding factor is money. Assume that all other factors are equal (I am equally passionate about coding and trading, I am fine with the hours in S&T vs tech etc). In tech, I am fairly confident that I can earn $100k straight out of college and then plateau at $200k after 4-5 years. Then I want to become an entrepreneur and take a slim shot at a big upside. The problem is that I have no idea of how much I can expect to make in S&T. Even though I currently work in S&T, I only have a faint idea of how much my colleagues earn, even though I know that some of them make a lot and some of them not so much. I know that compensation in S&T has been declining, and I fear that it has deteriorated to the point that the net present expected value of a career in S&T has dipped below that of a slow and steady tech job. Can anyone provide any insight into what compensation I can expect in BB S&T, prop trading or quant hedge fund? I am fairly confident that I can become a decent trader with a solid PnL.
how are you an intern in january? are you simultaneously interning and going to school in california?
or do you mean you secured an internship, and haven't actually done anything except speculate? if so you really shouldn't make to many generalizations
if you are confident in your abilities and have big ideas as to what you want to make, then go for it?
A couple comments.
I presume you're doing a coop program rather than the standard summer analyst program. Congrats, if that's the case.
Regarding comp, you're right, it's been depressed across the board and it's not very attractive at the junior levels. Until you get your own book and have risk, you won't get paid based on PnL, meaning your bonus is miniscule (and you'll be sitting there envious of your friends in banking with high bonuses and tech with high bases). Many people choose to pursue trading over banking because of the lower hours, the opportunity to move to a buy-side trading role, and the (perceived) lifestyle (wining and dining, cocaine, fratty culture, yada yada).
If none of that interests you, and it sounds like it doesn't given your entrepreneurial aims, I don't think you should be in trading. Being 'confident' that you can become a decent trader is nothing. If you don't follow the markets passionately and have a genuine interest that will get you out of the bed at 6am five days a week, the job isn't for you.
Were I in your shoes, I'd be far more inclined to take a tech job that will pay me six figures out of school, offer absurd perks (dry cleaning, 'campus' style housing, meals, etc.), give me free time to pursue my own projects on the company dime, and require few enough hours from me weekly that I can work on my own projects on the side. You say you want to join a startup; what better way to do it in the evenings and weekends while being paid as a salaried employee by your firm?
The only concern is to make sure you aren't going to fall prey to intellectual property claims for work done while an employee of the firm, so make sure you read the fine print of the contract you sign.
To me, it sounds like you know what your real interest is, but you're trying to rationalize a major life decision based on short-term compensation trends. As I see it, that's the wrong way to go about it. Think about what motivates you and what drives you, then consider how each option in front of you can help you actualize your dreams.
From what you've shared, trading isn't going to afford you the opportunities you seek down the road. How many traders wind up as successful entrepreneurs? None that I know of personally, save for Uncle Eddie Braverman, and he wasn't even a trader. How many programmers do I know who spent a few months/years bouncing around between firms in Silicon Valley before joining a startup that made them rich (seven figures plus) within years? Over a dozen, and that's me anecdotally alone.
Feel free to PM me, but I don't think this is that hard a choice. Best of luck.
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