Is it true quant trading/PM is very risky/stressful

While PnL is probably why we see some people at 5 YOE making high six to low seven figures a year, and some portfolio managers making around eight figures a year, is it really worth it?

Supposedly, you are very stressed 24/7 on the job with high turnover because it’s “eat what you kill.” How exaggerated is it? Is it fully true?

And if it’s actually a “you eat what you kill” type role, how does it differ from senior PE/IB bankers just doing sales for their income?

5 Comments
 

Quant trading and portfolio management (PM) are indeed high-risk, high-reward fields, and the stress levels can be significant. Based on the most helpful WSO content, here’s a breakdown of the realities:

  1. Risk and Stress in Quant Trading/PM:

    • The "eat what you kill" nature of the role is not exaggerated. Your performance is directly tied to your PnL (profit and loss), and this creates constant pressure to deliver results. Unlike other roles, there’s a live, quantitative metric tracking your success, which can be both motivating and stressful.
    • The stress comes from the need to consistently generate returns, often in volatile markets, and the fear of underperformance leading to job loss. As noted in WSO threads, the industry is shrinking, and opportunities are becoming more limited, adding to the pressure.
    • High turnover is a reality, especially for those who fail to meet performance expectations. This is compounded by the fact that recruiters often prefer younger talent with fewer years of experience, making it harder for mid-career professionals to pivot.
  2. Compensation and Career Trajectory:

    • While it’s true that some individuals with 5 years of experience can make high six to low seven figures, and top PMs can earn eight figures, these outcomes are not guaranteed. The compensation is highly variable and depends on individual performance, market conditions, and the firm’s structure.
    • Career progression can be challenging. Many professionals get stuck at the VP level, and only a select few make it to PM roles. The industry’s shrinking nature further limits upward mobility.
  3. Comparison to Senior PE/IB Bankers:

    • In senior PE/IB roles, the "sales" aspect involves building relationships, pitching deals, and managing client expectations. While there’s pressure to close deals, the income is often more stable due to base salaries and bonuses tied to team performance rather than individual PnL.
    • In quant trading/PM, the focus is on individual performance and decision-making. The stress is more immediate and tied to market outcomes, whereas in PE/IB, the stress is often related to deal timelines, client demands, and internal politics.
  4. Is It Worth It?:

    • This depends on your personality and career goals. If you thrive under pressure, enjoy the intellectual challenge of markets, and are motivated by the potential for high earnings, it can be worth it. However, the lifestyle and stress levels are not for everyone, and the risk of burnout is real.

In summary, quant trading/PM is a demanding career with significant rewards for those who excel, but it’s not without its challenges. The stress and risk are very real, and the "eat what you kill" nature of the role sets it apart from other high-stress finance careers like PE/IB.

Sources: Handling Stress / Burnout in Private Equity, Handling Stress / Burnout in Private Equity, Ask me anything - quant/quantamental Hedge fund manager/Consultant - Everything on liquid hedge fund strategies, Q&A: The Future/Current State of S&T - BB VP Macro Trader, Why Banking Over Private Equity/Hedge Fund?

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 
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Unlike hedge funds where the multi-manager model has been in vogue the past few years I think eat what you kill is becoming increasingly uncommon among decent to good quant trading firms. As the field has matured the research/trading infrastructure to be competitive has increased so increasingly systematic and even to some extent semi systematic trading strategies are either team efforts or individuals building on top of a substantial existing system rather than new pods which are mostly separate efforts. I don't think most people are stressed 24/7 but there is still considerable pressure to perform even in the absence of formulaic bonus pnl linkages. Involuntary turnover varies by firm and can range from low to high although I think has been somewhat lower in the past 4 years due to strong industry performance. Sharpes also tend to much higher in prop trading which I think also reduces potential stress from short term performance although that also means unlike traditional long only roles you cannot shake off a bad year so easily and still trust your process.

There are still some classic PM roles such as Tower which is still very much in the multi-manager setup although the skills required to do well as a PM in prop trading are extremely different from than those to do well in IB/PE so I don't really get that comparison.

 

To clarify the comparison, I wasn’t comparing what the roles do; I was questioning whether it would be similar to the sales aspect in banking if it were cutthroat, like “eat what you kill,” as I imagined before.

 

Maybe I have the wrong impression but especially for senior levels in PE at most firms although it is certainly cutthroat I believe comp is heavily weighted towards carry based on funds raised by the firm and not on performance of your individual deals like an "eat what you kill" trading shop. While "eat what you kill" trading shops would pay traders/PMs a contractual fraction of pnl minus costs on a monthly/quarterly/annual bonus some larger quant firms are moving towards having a large fraction of comp be deferred several years with final value depending on firm performance and also subject to "good leaver" provisions somewhat similar to many PE firms and hedge funds. Many well known trading firms also have partnerships for very senior employees which presumably compensate those employees through firmwide performance although the details of those partnerships are not public. 

Somewhat tangential but still interesting are these articles on "eat what you kill" at law firms (often catering to PE companies) and CVC

https://www.ft.com/content/e673c1f8-b23f-40ac-874c-cf58d038e657

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-05-08/why-cvc-na-s-eat-…?

 

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