Reflection on Summer Internship
I had someone on here who was about to start an off-cycle message me for tips/advice of what its like and upon reflection theres very little stuff on here directly adressing these questions in london. So lets use this as a Q&A hub for ppl.
Thought i would also share the advice i gave the person who messaged me. (he was asking, as a kid with a math/stats background with some coding experience, which desks to focus on)
Anyone who disagrees/thinks i missed smth pls feel free to write it below, i'd be grateful for the input
My advice:
Technical stuff:
If you're a math guy (for context which i am not) then i recommend focusing on the exotics desks, especially the volatility and dividend futures/options desks, they are the most mathematically complex products and with your background in numbers you will grasp the fundamentals behind them quicker than kids like me that just do econ or similar shit. The guys who ran the vol desks at my place were half math/physics/comp sci ppl and half 'trade with your nose' type ppl who learnt by doing and half of them didnt even go to university, naturally i gravitated towards the latter half and they liked me more. But the other interns with your background obv went towards the first half and were received enthusiastically. All the technical stuff about vol, vol surfaces, gamma hedging etc will be great for you to apply the math background to. (If youre into that stuff read Nasim Taleb's books) These guys also love programming so that'll be sweet for you too, honestly i cant say what the kids who did know programming did because i have no clue what programming is, i couldn't code my way out of a paper bag. I also had a great time learning about total return futures, how they're priced etc because they're a product that only really took off following covid and not many people understand them. Additionally, really enjoyed the dividend futures stuff, div options were a bit tougher for me to get considering i dont have a math background but you'll be fine. For Vol stuff you should read the first half of the book Trading Volatility by Colin Bennett, one of the seniors here worked with him back in the day and says his book is gospel, its almost like required reading for the juniors here so if you could get a head start on that, that'll be such a win for you.
Some general advice:
Fundamentally you will enjoy and learn the most off the ppl who like you the most, those ppl will probs be people with similar background to you but not necessarily. I spent half my free time this summer watching UFC so i could try make conversation with the guy who runs the equity finance desk because i wanted to learn his product but he was a physics phd who thought i was retarded because i didnt do a traditional stem degree. Get the juniors to like you first and then the seniors will begin to notice then like you too. Go drinking with them as much as possible, making good conversation with them outside of the office is literally just as important, if not more, as getting the on the desk stuff correct. no matter how smart you are, if they dont like you, youre never getting a return. One of my fellow interns spent his whole summer trying to only a single guy to like him, literally watched 6 series of anime to make this guy like him and it didnt work because he got 1 drinks order wrong at the pub after close and he hated him forever after that. Now his mistake was obv getting the drinks order wrong (youll hear the phrase: if you cant get a drinks order right youll never get a trade right), but his other mistake was he dindt cut his losses and move onto a different guy when it was clear after the first week this first guy didnt like him. Also, youre gonna get hit with so mmuch info and you will not remmeber all of it, i wrote a short summary/reflection of my day every night when i got home - best advice i was ever given
Do the things that require zero talent:
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Early is on time, on time is late
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Be presentable clean well dressed etc
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Ask questions all the time
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Write shit down
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Everything in life worth doing is worth overdoing, mediocrity is for cowards . (idk who said it first but everyone in my shop says it, theres a sign on the wall saying it)
What if you don't drink?
still go with them, just have a lemonade i guess
You're fine. Not sure where you're based, but in LDN there are many Muslims who have succeeded in IB, S&T, etc with a good number going on to be partners.
Thanks for the thread! Just hope to know about the interviews - is it very technical? Do you need to prepare for a lot of news / trends?
Also i dont code very well, is it a problem? I can code just fine but not software engineer level that builds a system out of the blue.
hardest part about SnT recruiting is getting the first round/passing the hirevue - thats mostly about being lucky. yapping about macro isnt hard if youre keeping up with the headlines and the brain teasers asked are usually straight out of the green book. as along as you can pull data and make a pretty chart with python/vba ur coding skills are fine
Can i dm you?
honestly depends entirely on who you get in the interview. The guy i had was more interested in the side hustle i was doing whilst in school and first year of university than he was about technicals.Obviously you never know whos gonna be on the other side of the interview, all you can do is try prepare the technical stuff as best you can.
The advice my boss gave me when describing any job in markets: "15% is knowing your product because it helps when someone calls you up that you know wtf you're talking about. The second 15% is being a good salesman, thats like an STD, you've either got it or you don't. And the last 70% is about managing relationships"
so going off his advice, the techs shouldn't be make or break, in my opinion i think its pretty unpredictable. If you have a nerd interviewing you that cares more about repo rates than people, then technicals will clearly be very important, but its a chill guy he might just assume that you've prepped just as much as the last 10 ppl he has interviewed and just ask questions about you/your life
You're a legend brother, thanks for this.
glad i could offer some assistance, i think this a great platform for this stuff. We all know how hard this application/recruiting shit is without all the infighting, least we can do is offer advice to those who come after us just as we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. No way i would've got this role if my friends who are smarter than me didn't sit down and help me understand this shit.
5 is from the ballad of the frogman in the movie lone survivor. (Not sure if that’s its origin but that is where ik it from)
Modi tenetur aut ut. Sit ab voluptatum libero ab.
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