S&T People of WSO, what's your sleep schedule like?
Starting as an S&T Analyst this summer and while I'm very excited to start this new chapter in my life, I am not at all looking forward to the early mornings and having to go into work every day (love WFH). I'm a little bit of a night owl so I typically fall asleep around 12:30am / 1am then wake up at 8:20am or so. I used to stay up even later but I've gotten "better".
Given how tired I am when I wake up at 8:20, I can't fathom having to get up at 5:00 / 5:30am every morning. Obviously I'll have to go to bed a bit earlier, but was just curious to hear how S&Ters handle this. What time do you go to bed and wake up? How do you like it? Have you gotten used to it? What are your weekends like (i.e., you must be tired on your nights out, no?)
Thanks!
Your college schedule is completely different from your working schedule. When I was in college, I'd go to bed at like 2-3am every night, wake up at 9 and roll into class. When I started S&T, I would try to go to bed around 11-12, and wake up around 5:30 or so to get to the desk by 6:30. One thing that happened for me is that my schedule sort of normalized after a week or so - think of it like 4 hour jet lag.
When I was 22, I used to work 6:30-7:30 during the days, and didn't really do much on weeknights. As a result, I really prioritized going out on Fridays and Saturdays. I'd usually be out until like 3-4 on those nights, and was able to recover on Sundays for the week. I can't imagine doing that now, but I think since you're likely early 20s, it shouldn't be too much of an issue if that's something you want to do.
What I would suggest though is that you try to ease yourself into waking up earlier and going to bed earlier like a week or so before you start. It will be that much easier to transition for your job.
EDIT: Also, if you're starting FT, the first 2-3 months is a lot of training and stuff so it's not like you need to be running at 100%. You'll be eased in by the time your time on the desk starts.
Unfortunately I will be starting at 25 (I turn 25 a month before I start this summer) as I am switching internally.
Congrats! The switch is probably not easy and you deserve it king
Assuming you're still in your early 20s, you're still effected by whats called the "sleep phase delay". Basically, being a night owl at that age is natural and expected, so you're going to have to use some supplements to help you fall asleep earlier.
Try to set a hard deadline around 11pm or 12am where you are in bed and basically not looking at any screens. After that by week 6 you will be customed to waking up and checking the FT/WSJ headlines first thing (so your body basically says its a trading day get the eff up).
Outside of that won't lie if you are very disclipned or workout lots (naturally makes your buddy want sleep/rest) most S&T just live on no sleep, the hours may be better but the idea of "REM sleep" is pretty not existent.
Weekends, you are going to burn out friday night for sure if your friends have regular jobs. It's better to go home after work on fridays rest a little and then recharge to stay out all night. Saturday you sleep in a bit more, and Saturday evening/night you goooo hard. Sunday by mid-day your brain will start to shift back to work like the market ha.
Oh lots of S&T folks also go super hard on Thursday nights (clients/ppl like to go out)...so another reason the Friday night is tough one.
Nothing to add but just wanna say I love your username. Classic
Junior in college going into IB this summer but desperately want to switch to S&T FT for the sleep/WLB. Can anyone tell me if this is a great idea? Or is ER a better field to be in? Love public markets btw
It all depends on what you’re looking for. S&T will certainly offer you better WLB, but it also offers less job security. The pay at the low levels is slightly lower for S&T, at higher levels the median D / MD tends to make lower than the median D / MD in IB, but the superstar S&T guys - the ones who go to Hedge Funds, start their own funds, etc. - crush everyone.
I personally am fascinated by the markets and love a fast-paced, client facing environment so that’s why I’m into S&T.
Just my 2 cents having worked at a bank for a couple years, thought about this a lot. Can’t make the decision for you but think I can give you a pretty accurate picture of what to expect.
Depends on what desk/city you are in S&T
Houston oil/natty trading was on the desk by 7am so wake up around 6am and minimize the time between getting out of bed and out the door
First 2 year analyst i remember not seeing the sun until i went out on lunch runs. Partially due to other analyst working until at least 7pm but moreso free dinners after 7pm
had one 1 year rotation where i was on the desk at 630am and out the door to workout by 330pm..junior years all depends on when the desk head leaves
Associate/VP level 7am-430/5pm no exceptions
Going into Houston energy trading at a super this summer. Thanks for this comment lol - could not have been more helpful
Not S&T, but research and we obviously interact with the sales team. Asleep by ~11pm, first alarm off at 5:50, on the desk at 6:20ish. This is all WFH so factoring commuting I'd push back the sleep and first alarm times.
You get used to it pretty easy. At least you aren't on the west coast, cause that would be brutal.
When I first interned in S&T in nyc, it was definitely a bioclock shock. In my case, I slept usually at 3-4am. The first week of the internship was mostly orientation stuff luckily, but my sleep schedule quickly adjusted. I just got tired a lot quicker. Soon start sleeping around 10-11. Your body will adjust no problem.
On the equities side of things, you'll most likely fall asleep around 10-11pm and get up by 6-6:30am. Rates and FX are much earlier, think 9-10pm and getting up at 4:30-5am. Credit is somewhere in between the two. Regardless, still MILES better than what it would be like in IB.
Bonds here - up at 6 AM, in by 630 in order to make morning call. Log off by 530 PM usually, in bed by 10...not bad at all. This market however is volatile, so basically any week I’m long significant risk right now I sleep like shit and constantly wake up to look at rates on my bloom all night
Does waking up in the middle of night to look at rates offer any tangible advantage, or is it more a symptom of your worrying about your position?
Partially a symptom of worrying, partially me developing a hypothesis for the morning. Your market opinion can change by the hour, and calamities overseas always happen at night, so I’ve gotten used to waking up at 1 am and checking my bloom for that kind of shit. The last thing you want is to go to your am sales call and not give those fuckers direction, hell your desk manager will even think you’re a dummy. Trading is a 24/hour job even when the screens are off
Up by 5:15am, on the desk by 6am, back home at 7pm, go to sleep at 9:30pm. About once a week I have to get up at 4:00am-4:30am, and once or twice a week home by 7:30-8pm. I don't really have dinner, because it sucks having dinner an hour before having to go to sleep and cooking dinner takes too much time.
The extra hour of sleep and not having to commute to/from the office when working from home made this job tolerable. Now that we're back in the office I'm constantly tired again. I'm just not a morning person, and don't think I ever will be. On vacations I naturally gravitate to a 1am bedtime and waking up by 9am.
wow those are rough hours. What product/location? London FX Exotics?
i see how futures open at 6pm (New York)...if not volatile, then i try to go to sleep asap..ideally be asleep by 7pm....so i can wakeup at 2am (sleep 7 hours) to catch the london open...trade till 3pm...then have "dinner" and relax with market charts in background until 7pm bedtime.
70% of my winning trades are initiated during the london morning....and i trade US Rates.
i use this sunrise simulation alarm clock to make waking up at 2am bearable...and my deaf-person vibrating watch alarm vibrates to help me wakeup.
wow, that's intense
i would prefer to just move to Europe...but my family is all in the US in the NYC area
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