Supermajor or Bank for Energy trading
Hi all,
Generally speaking. As a fresh grad starting in a support role for energy trading ( scheduler, market risk etc.), would I have a higher chance of eventually becoming a trader if I start at a supermajor or bank?
It is possible at super majors. Not sure about banks. But you have to be aware that promotions in energy trading are non linear. Outside the role you are in now, there is no track for you to go on. If you want to move up or in a different direction, you have to make it happen yourself.
If you start as a scheduler or in risk, no one is going to think- hey this person is good- let’s make them a trader in 3 years. You have to put yourself in front of people, make your interest clear, do a good job, and with some luck, another seat opens up which helps to put you there. Two risk analysts I know became desk analysts who became traders this way. But it can take years to get it done. So don’t go in thinking it will be easy.
To add some color to oil_quant's comment. If you go to a bank you will be most likely trading paper only, which requires less supply chain knowledge like knowing how to move a cargo etc. This means you will more quickly be "qualified" to trade. Also since the grad program at banks is highly structured (an1 -> an2 - asso1 - asso2 - …) you are almost guaranteed to be given a book at some point. Once you become a trader your PnL is all that matters. It's actually quite common to see traders at trading houses with prior trading experience at a bank. Once you have trading experience you will be hired as a trader, but if you only have worked in a support role, it's hard to convince someone to give you a trader seat no matter how many yoe you have. It's kind of a zero to one thing. Doesn't make 100% sense but it's how it works.
You are very correct, but it does make sense. These firms are flat/lean/low-turnover (hope to be) everyone who gets a book their goal is they keep that book. So tough to give someone their first shot unless internal vs “finding someone who has a successful strategy and just needs capital or better direct comp”.
Makes sense except turnover is absurdly high on the junior level. Youngins who are ambitious and smart jump ship as soon as they realize that trader seat is a mirage. Why take any chances at a house if you are almost guaranteed a seat at banks/prop shops. You can always come back as a trader if you still want to do commodities.
Do you have both offers?
Also I really do not get why this is the one section of WSO, people cannot write citi/gs/ms vs shell/bp/total. These things become very firm specific truly.
If my end goal is to become a paper trader should I go Citi or Glencore/Trafi?
If its a path like grad program etc i would lean to trafi/glencore, citi does not pay great to jr traders these days nor rush people on a desk.
By paper trader I am going to assume a term person trades financially mainly in future and is not a BD style direct physical only trader.
citi
No, I don't have offers to both. I only have an offer from a Shell/BP rotational. Recently saw JPMorgan post a position for market risk- Power, Gas and Environmental trading and got curious. Just wondering if I made the right choice going with a supermajor instead of bank. I rarely see energy trading positions open up at banks but constantly see job postings from oil and gas companies so I have no idea.
You made right decision its going to take a good amount of time for JPM to figure out how they plan to grow that business as its been moved to bare bones.
Reason you seeing these roles now is that all banks have an edge to startup carbon trading based on their client rolodex. That said JPM gig probably pays better starting out, much better.
One thing to note is that the BP TDP that is open to college grads (can) lead to a trading role while the Shell GDP (something like that- has graduate in the name) that is open to college grads (usually) does not. The Shell TDP that is open to people with some experience does.
BP Trading Development Program- no question
shell/bp 100%
if you are not into their trader program you don't have a shot really at either..... the big machine hires folks annually and thinking you will somehow get into the mix is a very low % shot... I would say close to 0.
Thanks, didn't get into bp trading program but I will try for Shell's Trader program in 3 years since they require experience. Currently accepted to join Shell's Graduate program, hoping it's easier as an internal hire to their trader program.
you are in a good spot overall.. good luck... reach out direct if you have any questions
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