Beta Testing for my Startup - Chess 4 Money

Hey what's up guys - over the last couple years I've been working on a startup in tandem with my day job in finance, and we're approaching public launch. 

My startup, WagerMatch, is a platform where users can play chess for money with friends or strangers online of similar rating head-to-head. 

We're currently starting beta testing, and looking to get as much feedback as possible from users. 

I invite all of you to join our discord or check out our website WagerMatch (DOT CA NOT DOT COM) and explore and participate in the come up. 

We'll be hosting some free cash prize tournaments - you definitely don't need to be good to play, there's a fair game matchup for everyone. Currently only available in Canada and the USA. 

Mods feel free to remove if this isn't allowed, but I feel like I've been around here long enough to be able to share my passion project with our community in the off-topic section. 


Discord: https://discord.gg/3vv7gcU7

Site: https://wagermatch.ca

 

My unsolicited thoughts: I like the idea, but I think it's impossible to effectively prevent cheating.

Even chess.com, which has the resources to put massive amounts of money into best-in-class anti-cheat, has issues catching blatant cheaters for a while. It's impossible to prevent someone from selectively/strategically using an engine in a way where it's difficult for the anti-cheat to catch it, especially when money is on the line.

 

My unsolicited thoughts: I like the idea, but I think it's impossible to effectively prevent cheating.

Even chess.com, which has the resources to put massive amounts of money into best-in-class anti-cheat, has issues catching blatant cheaters for a while. It's impossible to prevent someone from selectively/strategically using an engine in a way where it's difficult for the anti-cheat to catch it, especially when money is on the line.

Yeah valid question that we've given a lot of thinking to - our strategy is two-fold: 1) We leverage existing anti-cheat from lichess, where our games are hosted, and 2) we deter cheaters by creating system to make it unprofitable to cheat (e.g. one account per real ID, right to seize all deposited funds if we suspect cheating, lifetime bans, player reporting and game reviews prior to large withdrawals, player reputation/credibility ratings, etc.).

STONKS
 

“Right to seize all deposited funds if suspected cheating” sounds like a non starter for me - if some guy ‘suspects’ I cheated because he’s angry he lost (which will happen a lot more than on Chess.com because there’s money at stake), you have the right to take all my money? I wouldn’t put more than $50 in with a rule like that in place, especially for a new platform.

I see what you’re going for here (strongly disincentivizing cheating), but I would change the language / rules to be centered taking funds from ‘proven’ cheaters. Otherwise you are declaring you have the right to take money from any player in the ecosystem on a whim. 

 
ConsultingQs

"Right to seize all deposited funds if suspected cheating" sounds like a non starter for me - if some guy 'suspects' I cheated because he's angry he lost (which will happen a lot more than on Chess.com because there's money at stake), you have the right to take all my money? I wouldn't put more than $50 in with a rule like that in place, especially for a new platform.

I see what you're going for here (strongly disincentivizing cheating), but I would change the language / rules to be centered taking funds from 'proven' cheaters. Otherwise you are declaring you have the right to take money from any player in the ecosystem on a whim. 

We’ve consulted with the best people in chess cheat detection, and I can confirm there is literally NO way to prove a cheater from a single game, hence why we’ve taken the approach we’re taking which is trying to deter it, and relying on catching cheaters who repeatedly break the rules, and then just not allowing them to profit from this activity, 

We’ll surely fine tune the messaging to regular users don’t panic when they read “right to seize funds” but the reality is we would only do this when we’re quite certain someone is cheating, and we have a lot of strategies we can use to come to a relatively safe (95% sure) conclusion. 
 

We don’t think this will be a huge problem in practice, despite it might not sounding the best in theory. 

STONKS
 

I’m sure you guys have considered this but smurf accounts (good players creating new accounts with low ratings) are going to be a huge problem on this platform. Right now anyone can create a new account on chess.com and start from the bottom of the ratings. People don’t do this often now because their max rating is what they care about - there’s little incentive to deliberately pair yourself against weaker players, as there’s no money to be won.
 

In poker, by contrast, people don’t want to play against players of similar skill - they want to play against the worst players they can find. That’s because there’s money on the line. This platform would create the same effect for chess, with GM level players creating new accounts to make a quick buck off amateurs. Poker survives this effect because it is random enough in the short term that ‘fish’ (weak players) will still win hands a lot of the time even against pros, leaving them coming back for more. An 800 rated player against a GM pretending to be 800 will get blown off the $&@ing board - there will be no illusion they could have won. Between the demoralization and the money lost, new players will quickly leave the ecosystem if this happens to them more than a couple of times.

I know you mentioned verifying IDs, but I’m not sure how you expect to really catch people without state of the art duplicate account detection, as they could easily borrow an ID from a friend. That’s a tough problem for a small company to have to solve. Even then, a GM could create a new account and have a legitimate 800 rating in your ecosystem (unless you are requiring them to disclose existing ELO scores) and can make some quick money until they climb up to their actual rating level, without even breaking the rules.

One potential way to reduce this is to give some sort of financial incentive for higher rated players - maybe certain stakes are only available at certain ratings, or the rake taken by the house / membership fees decline. The parallel in poker is that pro players are usually willing to play higher stakes even though they have less of an edge because there is more for them to win per hour and less rake, even if they have a lower win %. But these incentives have to be really finely tuned for chess, and even then…high stakes poker still has some fishes, whereas GM level chess by definition has none. It would still be far easier for strong players to play weak players for guaranteed money in chess.

Another potential solution is to position yourself primarily as a platform for friends to wager against each other, and place less of a focus on matchmaking with strangers. I and others would welcome a platform where I can put money on a game against a friend, as I know who I am signing up to play against. Obviously this would decrease the scope of the platform significantly, though.

Hopefully this doesn’t come across as overly negative or critical - on the contrary, I think this is a really good idea, and have thought about it a lot before. It’s just that wagering is uncommon in games that have low variance, and chess has once of the lowest variances out of any game. 

 
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