Which PWM groups don't cold-call?
Which banks have an organized program for full time analysts (like JP Morgan)? Just wanted to see how many banks have a program compared to their analysts just cold-calling.
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GS/MS also have formal analyst programs in different groups (business strategy etc.) of wealth management where you aren't cold-calling. not sure if they are all front-office though.
BOfA ML also have analyst programs in their GWIM division. GWIM is composed of 7-8 sub-divisions, a few of them are GIS, U.S trust ( which im sure has analysts ) , and COO.
UBS does not cold call
so why do people consider these dead end jobs? is it JUST a prestige thing?
From what I've heard, a career in PWM does not require a lot of financial knowledge since most of the time there is a research team working for the actual advisors and ultimately becomes about sales. This makes it hard to transition to something like IB or PE. I could be wrong, it's just what I've heard. I don't work in PWM.
I wouldnt say its purely about prestige, part of it probably is though. It really comes down to an individuals preferences in what he wants to do in finance. If one wants to do pwm or gwm and thinks he will do well in it, than by all means he should pursue it. A lot of people work in pwm and make good money and are respected by the people around them.
my man: it's partially a prestige thing. PWM isn't a business where you see your group's work in the news like with IBD. Another factor is pay, the top guys may earn a couple million, but 80%+ of them are probably earning around $1k-$500k (yes, that's a guess, but an educated one). Compare that to, say, IBD, PE, S&T, HF where it's far more likely to see people earning in the $500k+ range. Another is the type of work. PWM is sales, first and foremost. It behooves you to know the markets, but when it comes down to it you need to be able to spit fire:
http://www.youtube.com/embed/xKzMd328bMw
There are other factors, I'm sure, but that's really it for me. I wouldn't be 100% against PWM by any means, it's a great job, you just have to be a great salesman. As for it not requiring a lot of financial knowledge, that may be true, doesn't mean you won't have the opportunity to learn a shitload if you pursue an education while there.
It honestly depends on the firm. I would say pwm at GS/ms/jp/BlackRock are much more prestigious than a MM IB. Everyone has the IB or bust mentality but top pwm shops are just as reputable as MM and some even bigger IBD. If the names were changed, I guarantee you the pwm would recruit better talent. The "IB" name is unnecessarily sought after, which should not be the case at a number of MM firms
PWM at GS is just glorified sales. It's just about building up a book and getting clients. JPM Private Banking is a bit more sophisticated. Can't speak for MS or BlackRock.
From an investment management standpoint the private banks actually tend to be less sophisticated in my experience. Far more emphasis on proprietary funds (products) and the profolios that I've seen were extremely basic. Where the private banks really shine is on servicing of the other side of the balance sheet. PWM shops can't compare when it comes to lending.
People don't go into PWM for the prestige, they go into it for the freedom, income and job security that an established practice offers. They are such different careers that any attempt to compare them is a waste of time.
There was a firm that didn't cold call, but I can't remember their name because they closed shop due to lack of revenue.
Merrill... Not
GS PWM is in the same division as Asset Management so you could try to switch into GSAM if you got into PWM.
I've never heard of anyone going from PWM to GSAM. Yes, they're both under the IMD umbrella, but totally different jobs. PWM is kissing rich people's ass while GSAM is working on complex strategies and products for sophisticated institutional investors. Goldman's internal quant fund, Global Alpha, was housed under GSAM. That should give you an idea of how badass GSAM is.
Dude, if cold calling is something you dread to the point you are making firm based decisions I'd probably rethink going into PWM. It just takes time and practice, but eventually you'll dial and smile without hesitation.
For most PWM, cold calling is a pretty important aspect of their business. The whole, PWM, PB, IB, AM, etc. debate is almost purely a prestige thing by rich kids out of Ivy League schools going into IB. Truth is, if you get into a BB there is a ton of overlap in PB and IB. There are many investment analysts, hedge fund research analysts, etc. positions in PB. And from my experience, the base salaries are the same as IB and the work/life is better. I know people who work in PWM for UBS, MS, ML, etc. and boy do I wish I had their lives. I know some who are making 1+ million per year, and they end their work day at 2:30-3....yep, that's right...2:30-3 for 1+ mil. Most people won't make it in PWM, but the people who do are highly regarded, and even envied by many financial professionals across all divisions.
Yep I'm happy with my comp being one of those analyst types for my 830 to 530 workweek. I'll gladly let everyone circle jerk into ibd vs looking at these AM and PWM roles to lessen the competition
so what's your story? are you at a PB, wirehouse, RIA, what?
Agreed, the roles could be great especially for work/life balance. Though the only issue is a lot of the roles can be very ambiguous and vary from person to person even with the same title
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