WSO Elite Modeling Package

  • 6 courses to mastery: Excel, Financial Statement, LBO, M&A, Valuation and DCF
  • Elite instructors from top BB investment banks and private equity megafunds
  • Includes Company DB + Video Library Access (1 year)

Comments (69)

Most Helpful
  • Prospect in Consulting
Mar 22, 2021 - 7:50am

Because in the workplace claims coming from a female about mistreatment are going to be taken much more seriously and can feed into accusations of sexism very quickly

Learn More

300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses.

Learn more
Funniest
Mar 22, 2021 - 9:05am

I would stop introducing her to anyone. Stop feeling empathy for her. Do everything that is "acceptable" by other VP's (no-rule breaking). This bitch just tried to derail your career, and bit the hand that fed her. I am taking everything you said at face-value (as if you are a good person, and had all the right intentions). If that is true, then thsi means war. Slowly pile on more and more work each week. Stop caring about whether she's over staffed or not. Destroy her. 

Mar 22, 2021 - 9:17am

Thanks a lot - the whole thing took a massive psychological toll on me & next time I will be ultra cautious before putting energy into helping/mentoring anyone

The corporate speech at senior level of the banks ('women's duty should be to mentor other women' / junior females should be 'more nurtured' than other juniors) is so much in disconnect with today's reality, and does not apply to those juniors who will happily take the extra help / interest you invest in them, and then go above your head as soon as they feel they're ready to move on to 'bigger & better things' within the team

Mar 22, 2021 - 3:11pm

Sir you are doing gods work I wish my seniors would care more about my development in this WFH environment.  

[BumbleBee45] Said it well. I would slowly keep serving her work. IDK if your directors would  actually take any of her "overworked" comments with a grain of salt but if your boss realize the work is needed then just keep her staffed at capacity.  Then if she is still here by the time of still around for annual review make sure your bosses know how she is not a team player and she should be bottom bucket.  

  • Associate 2 in IB - Gen
Mar 22, 2021 - 9:16am

Maybe there is a chance she doesn't realize how important those particular projects were? Might be a case where she isn't involved enough to realize where her work fits in the request of your MD or the client. 

Mar 22, 2021 - 9:22am

I don't think I ever gave her work which was un-necessary, or that I myself would not be willing to do if she declined doing it (ie I only gave her actual necessary deliverables). But to your point maybe in the future as 'I withdraw from working with her' she will realise I was not coming up with stuff, as seniors start asking her to do similar things (but then the 'damage' has already been done to me seeing how quickly she went to complain)

  • Associate 2 in IB - Gen
Mar 22, 2021 - 10:08am

I see well I honestly don't think this is a huge deal for you overall. Maybe one thing you can do is schedule a 1v1 with her so she has a chance to voice any concerns directly. 

There may be a chance she thinks you delegate too much work instead of taking it on like a team. I've had this issue come up before early on as an associate. But hey, sometimes you do need to delegate more aggressively when you're staffed on multiple deals. 

Overall, I wouldn't worry too much but good luck. 

  • Associate 3 in IB-M&A
Mar 22, 2021 - 9:45am

You are approaching this as though she is 100% in the wrong. Could you have done anything better here? Your post sounds very high school (I don't consider her behavior bullying or backstabbing) without acknowledging that you could have some part in this.

1. You worked as late as her - how late? Were you consistently keeping the analyst up very late for work that could have been done the next day?

2. Who is she going to for complaints? If it's the staffer or the MD on your project, this is not backstabbing or bullying - she should have come to you first, but those are legitimate chains of command through which to handle issues. 

3. Do other associates/VPs have the same problems with this analyst?

Mar 22, 2021 - 9:52am

not too keen to go into specifics:

1. answers are in this order: 'not very late for either of us / absolutely not' 

2. I used the word 'backstab' because I initially had invested an insane amount of time teaching her / developing her / introducing her to my network. I used the word 'bullying' because she had a real go at me for no reason that I can point out, and she kept going on until my mental health started suffering (which I believe is a form of bullying). Otherwise I'd probably just have been pissed off and brushed the whole thing off easily 

3. n/a (tough to benchmark due to team structure)

Mar 22, 2021 - 10:19am

First, when you have some free time, write down every concrete example of how the junior has attempted to go behind your back, and see if you have any associated proof of it. Second, document everything going forward and put it all in writing. At this point, your take should be how do I cover my ass in case something happens. Even though it sounds like your boss has your back, nothing beats having proof if it comes down to it. Cases of My Word vs Your Word are notoriously hard to prove unless you have written documentation or proof to show that you're getting screwed over by a Junior. 

  • 1
Mar 22, 2021 - 10:30am

You're welcome. While I hate giving that advice, at the end of the day, it's either you or her. You have to do what you can to protect yourself. 

  • 1
Mar 22, 2021 - 11:08am

mine is fine - hers is totally in the making as she just joined the bank last summer mid-covid so no one really knows her (other than my own network / people I introduced her to) 

Mar 22, 2021 - 11:14am

that's a very valid remark - I will be extremely cautious with future juniors and I will not go out of my way to help them - but I will do my best to treat them 100% fairly 

it's slightly sad that I feel zero drive to mentor people now, and don't think I will be able to go back in that mood for a long while 

  • Intern in PE - Growth
Mar 22, 2021 - 11:13am

What is this, Don´t bully me, Miss Analyst? My little Analyst cannot be that rude? The Investment Banking-Kouhai? Sounds pretty made up if you ask me, bruv.

Mar 22, 2021 - 12:25pm

There will come a time when you'll have to write her a performance review. If she doesn't come to her senses be then, destroy her review - which btw will be a fair and reasonable act. She can try to derail you through the back door (foolishly enough) and you can do it legitimately and officially as her superior.

Laborare Pugnare Parati Sumus

  • 1
  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Mar 22, 2021 - 12:47pm

When I started my current role I had a similar experience. I felt that I was given more work than others at my rank. But I never complained to anyone senior or to others at my supervisor's level/ VP. I was never angry/salty but felt it was a bit unfair. However, as I started to get closer to my teammates (same level) I realized that they are also getting the same amount of work. 

My takeaway was that remote work/COVID has made it difficult to see if everyone is getting the same amount of work so either my VPs could have done a better job of showing that its equally distributed (e.g. a team chat where work is allocated) or I could have looked into it further (which I did in my case). 

Also, after speaking with many students, one thing I have noticed is that many do not know the unwritten rules of conduct such as not complaining to ppl above your boss unless it's something very important, helping out your team (even if you are done with your work), etc. This is probably because this new generation (and yes I am part of it) was brought up with helicopter parents, loser trophies, and activism around rights where you are brainwashed into thinking the solutions to everything is to speak up and out/in public. I always end up giving a lecture/rant to students/ young professionals I have spoken to about the unwritten rules of conduct in the finance industry.

That being said, she needs to be taught a lesson!

Mar 22, 2021 - 1:33pm

Wow thank you, pretty interesting insights throughout. First I will keep this in mind for our future recruits and from day 1

I love that your generation feels free to speak up (I never felt like I was allowed to during my first 6 years as analyst/assoc - still don't feel like I can) but I really wish this power was used for 'good' rather than to try and go above the mid-level person who was trying to be a mentor. With great power comes great responsibility :) in her specific case I have zero hope - however I will 100% try to keep your entire comment in mind for our future new joiners. 

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Mar 22, 2021 - 1:55pm

To your love for the new generation speaking up, I am still personally not sure what I stand. I like the fact that more people are speaking up but I am not sure if they are doing it properly. What I mean is that most are "trained" into speaking more and thinking less. This means that it's a reflex to just speak up, without thinking or waiting for more information.

In your case, if she would have thought it through and maybe talked to others at her lvl then maybe she would have felt differently (this ofc is giving her the benefit of doubt / assuming that she is not out to ruin your carrier). And I do not agree with her method of talking to your seniors even if she did think it was unfair work allocation - again lack of ability to think and also lack of thoughtfulness for others/others' POV. 

One thing I realized is that most in my generation are not able to balance selfishness and kindness. I like that they are speaking up and making sure their health isn't at risk/defending themselves but many are just being complete dicks and are willing to step over everyone else. The worse part is that they don't realize it.  I sometimes hate my gen....and that's why I go for cougars!

Now I am not going to preach about forgiveness and shit like that, even though I am pretty forgiving myself, bc it's finance and something you need these experiences to learn.  Please give me some SBs if you like this post. Need to get to the next rank.

Mar 22, 2021 - 1:48pm

30+ comments and not a single one has said "regardless of who was right/wrong, you 2 were not on the same page and you should make an effort to get on the same page". You're both (I'm assuming) smart and rational people. Reach out, walk through the times she felt overworked, and explain the fact that you were working the whole time too, then she'll understand. Or she'll explain all the times you left her with a mountain of work. None of us know the situation other than you and her, so figure it out. If I was in her shoes, I would much rather prefer a direct confrontation than have you destroying me without talking about it. Be the bigger person and get it straightened out.

Mar 22, 2021 - 3:00pm

Yes and no. This chick could've put OPs career on the line (in the most extreme scenario, imagining OP had some bad relationships up top for whatever reason or some toxic woke HR who would use this as an excuse for virtue signalling). This chick deserves to be worked hard, and get trashed on her review (trashed on a more interpersonal level though, I wouldn't lie about her working hard if she actually does so).

Mar 22, 2021 - 3:36pm

This is precisely why mid level managers in IB don't give 2 shits about juniors. The new generation is incredibly and I mean INCREDIBLY fucking soft. Pampered and given participation trophies. They run into a few all nighters in a row and suddenly talk about mental health deterioration (see GS 13 analysts in sf).

It has always been like this. It will always be like this. The only difference is the role used to pay more. Tech has largely changed that.

Mar 22, 2021 - 5:39pm

Wasn't suggesting people in IB to switch to tech. The 2 domains largely don't intersect. I was just making a point that pre-2008 when pay was multiples of what it is now, analysts could tolerate stuff like this and wouldn't whine as much. The drop in pay relative to other fields has disillusioned a bunch of juniors.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Mar 22, 2021 - 5:23pm

Says the guy in Ops. Sounds like the classic "In my day I walked uphill both ways." There is unusual attrition at the analyst level this year specifically, that must just be how soft this one class of graduates is right?

Mar 22, 2021 - 5:37pm

Who is in ops? I did my time in coverage at a sweat shop BB group. I've exited and run my own 2 businesses now so unsure what you're referring to.

You need to chill with your 1st world problems. Talent level in this industry has gone to shit post '08. See my comment on pay dropping as reason #1 why.

Mar 23, 2021 - 2:20pm

Why the fuck are you still on this site? You don't work in the industry, never add anything of value to conversations, and always complain about other people's choices. Go fuck yourself loser.

Mar 22, 2021 - 5:38pm

She doesn't sound like a good person. I would have a talk with her and ask her why she didn't come to you first? You can say that you're disappointed in how she handled the situation, and you can address her points head on and suggest to her going forward if she has any questions about why a certain analysis is done, she can ask. I would definitely bring up the hours you've worked and the effort you put into developing her. Going forward, treat her like a snake. Work with her but don't put any effort into developing her, just the minimum to get through the job. I would also screw over her PE

If OP is a guy:

Tread carefully. The good thing about remote work is everything is recorded, so if she makes a claim you were harassing her, you'll be ok since I'm sure all calls are recorded. Everything else I listed above applies here. But be super careful with your interactions with her going forward as she sounds like a snake. If she sends you an email response with a smile, don't reply back with one for fear it may be misconstrued as "flirting". 

Good luck.

Array
  • 1
  • Principal in AM - Other
Mar 23, 2021 - 11:20am

Waddafaq is this? At my firm, if a junior employee went to a senior Partner and said he/she was being worked too hard, they would be shown the door by the end of the week. A note would go into their personnel file for not having the right attitude or some bullshit. I think it's even happened once or twice - somehow, an Analyst makes it in and then realizes the 12 - 14 hour workdays are very real.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Mar 23, 2021 - 7:10pm

Yea I definitely agree with this sentiment; the senior bankers must know that she is overstepping her bounds via going directly to them and not to you. All in all you are probably safe reputation wise but still yea echos the sentiment above.

Start Discussion

Total Avg Compensation

May 2021 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (9) $911
  • Vice President (35) $364
  • Associates (194) $234
  • 2nd Year Analyst (110) $151
  • Intern/Summer Associate (96) $145
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (26) $145
  • 1st Year Analyst (404) $131
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (329) $82