Accepted to HBS 2+2: Q&A
Just graduated college and was fortunate to be accepted to the 2+2 program at HBS. When I was going through the application process there was a noticeable lack of business school info on WSO geared towards college seniors, so I figured I'd do a Q&A to help future monkeys.
Some basic info on my profile, applications, and outcomes:
School: Non-target state flagship (ranked 40-60 in USNWR) Major: Finance GPA: 3.9+ GMAT: 740 (49Q, 42V) Extracurriculars: President of multiple business clubs Internship: MBB, will be starting at the same MBB in a couple weeks
I applied early to three schools:
HBS: Accepted Stanford GSB: Rejected, no interview MIT Sloan: Interviewed, but I found out about HBS first and pulled my application from MIT the same day For anything else, ask away! EDIT: I've been getting lots of PMs asking for a sensitive version of my resume, so I'll just post it here to be helpful to everyone. Link: http://docdro.id/e1Kabd1
GMAT?
Oh shoot, forgot to add that. I'll edit the post. Thanks!
Congratulations to you! Knowing that you're going to HBS 2+ years out is truly huge. Talk to other 2+2ers / HBS kids and connect / get as much advice as you can. Are you an under represented minority? female?
Thank you! I definitely feel very fortunate to be in this position and will try to make the most of it! To answer your question, nope. I'm a white male with no real "hooks" in that sense.
Why do you feel like you got rejected from Stanford but into HBS?
How'd you get a MBB internship from a non-target state school?
Feel free to not do this, but would you be able to upload a copy of your resume (all personal info hidden of course) just so I can see what a SUCCESSFUL MBB & HBS resume looks like?
I'll probably have more to come lol, but thanks for doing this!
While both approaches are important and I certainly try live a values-based life, my profile is just way over indexed on the habit of leadership and community impact. That's what Harvard is looking for.
In my Stanford essays I could and did talk about life hardships that shaped the way I am today, but as a white male from an affluent state I think I lost that battle to countless qualified candidates with less advantaged backgrounds than my own. Their stories could simply be better, and for me there's no shame in that.
I made a long post about it about a year and a half ago. Check it out here: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/non-target-to-bainbcg-intern
I won't post my resume here, but if you PM me I can send you a sensitized version.
Would you mind sending me your resume in a PM as well? Would love to get some more insight. About to start at MBB and the goal is to be at HBS down the road as well!
Would you mind PMing me your resume as well? Would be a huge help
Same comment as above. Thanks for doing this, this is great info for college students I mentor. +1.
thanks for posting! adding to frontpage
Is your username a T&F reference? Congratulations on your acceptance to a great program.
You got it! I was a big mile runner back in high school/early college
Right on, me too. Did you study for the GMAT during undergrad? Currently an undergrad and weighting taking the GMAT or delaying 1 year.
Thanks for posting this! What ultimately made you decide to pursue bschool and the 2+2 program over other options?
Reasons for me to apply to 2+2:
Typical reasons to go to business school like gaining a brand name school on my resume (especially helpful for a non-target like myself), expanding my network, learning more about management, etc.
The 2+2 program offers so much flexibility. I can choose to go in 2, 3, or 4 years from now; or not at all. So as of right now I still haven't closed any other doors and instead have HBS in my back pocket when planning the short-term of my career. I think that's a strong place to be in.
I feel more differentiated now than I will be 3 years from now in the eyes of an admissions committee. 3 years from now I could easily be looked at as "just another consultant" but without a top undergrad. Right now I'm the non-target kid who beat the odds to break into MBB and used my position there to help other non=targets break in as well. I think that's a more compelling story.
My firm will likely sponsor my MBA.
Have you got any work experience?
Other than two summer internships, no.
Not from US so I just heard about this program, so Harvard basically finds placements for you in the two years time frame, then you study full time for 2 years?
I can see that this program has benefits, but I don't see a business/finance/econ undergraduate major heading towards it. How is this different from a normal MBA from Harvard with previous work experience?
Not quite. The main benefit of this program is the flexibility and peace of mind knowing that you're going to HBS 2-4 years from now. I got the MBB job on my own. So say I stay at MBB for 3 years then enroll in HBS, I will be no different than someone who worked for a different MBB for 3 years then went the traditional route to business school.
Do you happen to fall within an underrepresented group?
When I was a college senior, I was discouraged to apply because I didn't hit any of the main buckets (female, URM, STEM). Any thoughts on this? Very similar stats to yourself so maybe I should have applied!
I don't. Like I said I'm a white male from a non-target in an affluent state, so I didn't really have any of those going for me. I just put together the best app I could and gave myself a shot.
Bummer that you didn't apply, but you will have the chance to soon I'm sure!
Thanks for doing this! I'm thinking of applying for 2+2 this upcoming year too. My question is: how do you answer the question why business school now? I understand your rationale as stated above, but how do you spin your story for the adcom? My impression was that the 2+2 is more geared towards people who wouldn't necessarily pursue an MBA later on, but I guess that is not the case for a Finance major/MBB?
If you're thinking about applying, definitely do it. I have a friend who got in with a 660 GMAT, so even if you don't think your measurables are up to par it's still worth the $100 application fee.
In my experience the "Why business school now?" question wasn't as relevant for me as a 2+2 applicant, but it morphed into "Why will knowing now that you're going to HBS in 2-4 years be helpful to you?" To that end I laid out a path that talked about how getting in now would give me the flexibility to do maybe 2 years at MBB then 2 more years at an EdTech startup (EdTech ties into my story) without the risk of worrying about MBA admissions while at the startup.
Ultimately adcoms want to see how an MBA fits within your goal. Ideally you want to paint the picture that you'll use the MBA as a tool to accomplish X goal, so in the case of 2+2 you just need to talk about what X is before and after business school.
Can you talk about letters of recommendation? Who did you ask, how did you set yourself up favorably with these people, and what qualities did you try to emphasize?
Letters of rec were a strong point of my overall application. While in undergrad I worked closely with two alumni who advised our undergraduate consulting group. I've easily spent 100+ hours talking to these guys about project strategy, group dynamics, career planning, etc. Both of them had gone on to earn MBA business schools">M7 MBAs themselves, so they were also great resources in helping me refine my application materials. When it came time to ask for recs, they were the obvious choices. I set up a PowerPoint deck outlining what I wanted them to say and providing examples for each, and they pretty much followed that. My strategy was to have one focus more on leadership impact, and have the other focus on my personal qualities and character. That way there wasn't much overlap in what they wrote.
did you happen to meet Brady4MVP while at HBS?
not as a fellow classmate, but as the janitor etc. etc.
Just curious, do you see workloads for your MBB life sustainable? Also as a MBA business schools">M7 grad, I'm curious of are you planning towards PE VC or the corporate leadership route post-HBS?
also happy to answer your q's if you have any. but I guess you'd also see a ton of MBAs in any MBB who will stay or leave in 2 years lol
While acknowledging I only have 10 weeks of MBB experience from my internship last summer, I do see the lifestyle as sustainable. Yeah I'll be traveling a lot and working on average ~65 hours a week, but there's very limited weekend work and I don't have a significant other or something else competing for a lot of my attention during the week. For my early-mid 20's, I definitely see the lifestyle as doable.
I've looked at all of those options and more, and while I can't rule anything out this early on I'd say the corporate leadership route is most likely. I get more excited by organizing and leading a team, selling team members and external stakeholders on the importance of accomplishing our mission, than I do by "thinking like an investor" by reading through 10ks and pressure testing an investment thesis.
That said, I've never worked in PE or VC so I can't be sure what that experience is like. I'd be curious to hear if you think PE/VC is a good fit for someone most energized by leading a team and driving that team forward to accomplish a goal.
Also, It looks like you went PE post-MBA? What type of work experience did you have pre-business school, and why did you decide to go to PE afterwards?
Is there any job that won't give you an interview after completing an MBA from an M7?
yes
sick bro
Hey, thanks for doing this! I am similarly frm a non-target looking to apply to HBS.
Are you able to be more specific as to how you approached your essay? Ed tech is great, but I'd reckon that most applicants have a compelling story anyway. I think the difficult part is to stand out - How did you manage to convince them that EdTech was the path you were going to pursue out of HBS, and how then did you convince them that your project was the more worthy one out of all the other applicants? I ask this also because you don't seem to have much ed tech related material on your resume.
If possible, how long was your essay, and how long did you spend writing it?
And with regards GMAT, would greatly appreciate it if you could share what resources you used to prepare - congratulations on 740!
Really appreciate the tip with regards the reference, that was a good one!
If you're applying to HBS seriously, it's safe to assume you're a bright, hard-working student who has experienced some early career success. HBS can see that on your resume, but what they can't see is the driving force behind those accomplishments. They can't see what motivates you to keep going; in short they can't see your WHY. That's what the essay is for.
Before you start writing (or even think about) your essays you should ask yourself, "Why do I work so hard?" Your first answer might be "because I want to be successful/make a lot of money" or "because my parents told me to"...go deeper. For every answer you give yourself, ask "Why is that important?" You want to get down to a life mission or mantra that makes it crystal clear why you're working so hard, and ideally that life mission will be able doing something for people other than yourself.
Take for example Elon Musk. Elon is a guy who will not give up because he's TRULY convinced we're doomed, and TRULY wants to fix the planet or get the heck off. His mantra would be something like "I develop moonshot ideas to either fix our planet, or get to another." His story would be about why he feels so strongly that we're doomed, and why he feels like it's HIS responsibility to fix it. Whether you like Elon, agree with him or not, I think you'll agree he would get into HBS if he applied.
I chose Elon, but think of all the great leaders. Mark Zuckerberg wants to connect the world. Steve Jobs needed beauty and simplicity in every day life. These guys have one sentence which guides or defines most of their actions.
The point is, you're not going to stand out based on what field you want to go into. Rather, your WHY is what's going to make you unique. Discover your WHY, explain where it comes from and how you'll use HBS to accomplish it, and you've got an awesome essay.
For what it's worth, the EdTech material in my resume is there it's just not what catches your eye. I wrote my thesis about EdTech, have worked on 3 education-related consulting projects, and volunteer at an education facing tech startup. You can't "convince" adcoms you're interested in something that you're not. Be authentic and you have a much greater chance of success.
Good Luck!
As far as GMAT goes, I bought the official guide books for practice problems and used Magoosh to study. Magoosh has great videos explaining how to approach each section, and then videos explaining each practice problem as well. I would start with Magoosh, watch the videos, and take the practice exams until you reach 680+. The head over to the official guide and crank out practice problems, keeping a log of questions you missed and why you missed them.
Studying for the GMAT took me about 3 months practicing ~15 hours a week. Prep materials cost
This is golden - appreciate the reply and advice brother. I'll be sure to let you know how my application turns out. Congratulations on ur MBB place as well. U r one kickass monkey
I was under the assumption that the 2+2 program meant working 2 years and then enrolling at B-School. Can the work experience between graduation and enrollment last longer than 2 years, say especially if someone is trying to do the 2 years in IB and then 2 years as a pre-MBA PE associate?
Yeah you can extend, Dee even joked it should be called the "flex+2" program.
@1600mPenn" Congrats on the great news. I also read your post on getting into MBB from a non-target. Thank you for making yourself available as a resource for others.
I have a tough decision that I'm trying to think about. I just finished an internship with Deloitte Risk Advisory (IT Audit) with a full-time offer (only 2 weeks to respond). My profile is an international student with a 4.0 GPA Management Information Systems major (MIS ranking is top 30 USNews but the university ranking is 110-130 US News). My long-term goal is going for an MBB. I'm thinking about 2 options: 1. Accepting the full-time Risk Advisory offer and trying to apply for an MBA 2+2 program like you did. Then I can try to switch to MBB after MBA. 2. Rejecting the the Risk Advisory Offer and try to go for OCR Tech Consulting (Deloitte + PwC) or network my way to management consulting firms (my school has no OCR for management consulting). Tech Consulting is not really what I see myself doing long-term but it seems closer to Management Consulting than Risk Advisory. I'm hesitating to go for this because (1) it has more risks for sure + (2) Tech Consulting is not really what I want so not sure if it's worth the risk + (3) I really don't know my chance of networking my way to MBB right now with my international student status.
A third option (not what I'm planning to do) is to accept the Risk Advisory offer and still trying to apply for more consulting jobs.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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