Am I good enough for quant ??
Hey there,
Is A* A* A (mathematics, further mathematics, physics) all taken at least a year early, enough for quant?
I never considered myself super talented at maths, never did amazing at competitions ( Junior maths challenge etc)
Do you need to be a natural genius to be a quant or is being solid at maths enough?
thanks
You should maybe consider operations.
Short answer: No
Long answer: People who are good enough to do quant are clever enough to realise posting their A-level grades which are near perfect and saying they didn't do competitions isn't a useful allocation of their time - they would probably also realise its near impossible to judge what "being solid at maths" is versus being a "natural genius" since the former is entirely subjective and hard to quantify whilst the latter is a range of IQ in which many quants don't find themselves residing in... Also not all geniuses are extraordinarily proficient/interested in mathematics.
Aside from being a dick I'll offer some actual advice: Quant is pretty broad, you can do quant at an investment bank, at a hedge fund, or a proprietary trading firm. All are fairly different and have their own recruiting pipelines whilst sharing enough properties to be under the umbrella term of "quant". - Another reason why the question is flawed. Investment banking quant is usually the least paid and not really what most people envision as being quant so I'm going to ignore it. Quant hedge funds like Citadel, 2 sigma etc typically hire mathematics/allied degrees at the Ph.D/Master's level at top universities. I think the lowest rated university that consistently gets a few quants into good funds is UCL, at the postgraduate level UCL is killer for its quantitative courses as well such as ML so this tells you a little bit about how difficult it is. Can you dedicate 4-7 odd years on getting this accredited in mathematics at a top level? Final option is proprietary trading, these guys are firms like Jane Street, Optiver, Citsec, Akuna, 5R, Maven etc - these guys almost exclusively hire out of undergrad through summer internships and also nicking the odd trader at rival firms.
Prop shops tend to be the highest paying gigs out of undergraduate, looking at around 200k+ gbp at 21, way more in the US and the number has way, way more upside in the future especially if you're a top performer. Prop shops typically like people with STEM/Mathematical undergraduate degrees and have rigorous recruiting processes. I'd argue, since most of the maths you use is undergraduate probability, that you don't necessarily need to be a maths genius to do this - but you do need to be at a top school doing STEM. You will need excellent mental maths abilities and be great at brain teasers involving probability/expected outcomes as well as sequences and summation but these can be trained - the online assessments, interviews and games will test these skills. I think mental maths (and i mean amazing mental maths) is the first hurdle they use to filter. As with all, if you can get into a top school for a numerate degree, you should have the bare minimum required.
Props for taking the time to type out an answer for the kid. I always hate how ridiculous the questions can get around quant trading.
yeah i mean rubbing the puppy's nose in the piss pool it made is important since it discourages them from doing it again but you gotta teach them where to pee right? we all started somewhere lol
Thanks for your honest response!
Most quants (and certainly the best) actually never thought about going into finance when they were in high school. They just enjoyed maths and studied it because they liked doing so.
agreed, although that's largely because information around quants was historically hard to find as it wasn't in your face as much as brand careers like investment banking, law, medicine etc... Nowadays with the rise of shows and more information/outreach its more understandable to assume at the back end of HS people would have some understanding of it.
Disclaimer: I've never had a full time job, only multiple internships and all my knowledge is gained from speaking to 3 people in the industry and stalking LinkedIn profiles. So take any of my information with a grain of salt but do feel free to check out LinkedIn yourself.
In some risk positions on LinkedIn I've seen PhDs in theoretical physics with 3-4 years studying string theory who are now in the USA working. These guys are literal Sheldon Coopers. It's mostly PhDs in physics or statistics who get on.In Citadel securities near me, there is actually one guy who "only" has a master's. His bachelor's is pure maths from Oxford and his master's from there too. He's also won a medal in the international maths Olympiad.
As for the guys I've spoken to, one has 2 master's and a PhD, the other has two masters and the other has a PhD. One thing which is very important to recognise is these guys are in love with the subject material. They didn't do it for the money, they love to research this stuff and will grind for dozens of hours at a time. When in college and at times prior to entering college they were studying how to build trading algorithms and implementing them. Not picking up a book only but literally doing it and oftentimes being successful. They're the epitome of nerds and are well compensated as a result.
I'd say if you're only in it for the money don't bother, you won't make it. But like I said previously, I'm completely unqualified to even answer here so do your own research to verify what I say.
you really don't need a masters/Ph.D for proprietary trading (so Citsec) but quant hedge funds like citadel will require them. Reason I say this is because prop shops have direct recruiting pipelines into undergraduate schools in the UK (and indeed the US). also I concede that you might need to be a near-genius to get into the trading job itself given how rigorous the process is but the actual work doesn't require a genius-level intellect at all. Proprietary trading I mean, quant research is a whole different story.
Prop trading definitely not. Quant research absolutely yes unless you're a maths Olympiad winner.
I'm not sure how difficult the work actually is once you're there so I can't comment on that. I don't see why it would be difficult to accept they only hire geniuses as 1 in every 50 people are so it's not that rare and we're talking about the top jobs here.
Just go interview and see what happens, if its something that interests you. Every quant is going to claim you definitely need 'X' which as a matter of funny coincidence they happen to have in order to be a 'real' quant, but in reality there are many types of quants, and multiple pathways into these seats if you are good. As an example, you'll see people claiming you need to have a deep knowledge of Black Scholes to be competitive for a quant role- true if you are an options pricing quant at a bank, but not true at all for many other seats. The degree, while it does matter, only really matters for getting your first job, provided you can do the work.
I'm pretty sure part of OP's question indirectly asks if he's good enough to get to interview. Most aren't.
He may or may not be- but I don't think he should close the door on himself based on his description. Hard to tell from a forum post what 'never did amazing at competitions' actually means- you don't need to be top 25-30 in the country in math/physics/etc to be competitive for these roles. Also, self-describing as a genius- not sure how many people who are actual geniuses would even do that given the way that sounds, so I would hesitate to disqualify someone based on that either.
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