Any IG/High Yield Credit guys willing to help?
Hi Monkeys, long-time reader, poster on a throwaway account. I can't tell you guys how much I've learned from everyone. Wanted to reach out to see if any good samaritans in the IG/HY space would be willing to help.
Without giving out too much information to give away my identity, I wanted to reach out on here and see if one of you could help a fellow monkey who's stuck with any ideas: Currently an Associate at a BB in NYC, working as a TA in the IG/HY credit space for 2.5 years. Without getting too much into it, the role I was working towards as a junior trader in IG/HY credit for the last few years was wiped out over the last 6 months in a re-org and it's been made known to me that the path that I've been on/was promised is no longer open to be on the desk eventually due to downsizing. My current role is safe for the foreseeable future, but that next step of becoming a junior trader was pulled from under me. I'm still in my mid/late 20s and still am super hungry (worked my way from a middle office documentation seat) but I feel very much stuck in the seat from a growth standpoint.
Any ideas/thoughts would be really welcomed and appreciated.
Hey creditassistant2345, I swear if I had a silver banana for every lonely thread I posted too I'd be richer than @compbanker ...
Hope that helps.
From a high level it does not seem like your firm is in growth mode, so it seems like you are going to need to leave to get the gig you want, but I do think the below are worth taking a shot at.
Best of luck, times are tough all over but there are good seats out there if you hustle.
Heard JPM's HY team is down to making $30mm a year off the $200mm they were raking in the late 00's. HY books are ultimately risky from a T1 capital perspective and IG credit is starting to look a lot more flow like --> Nomura cutting all of credit.
It's still an important part of a full-service offering and HY underwriting normally requires a risk book to make secondary markets; but I get the sense that it's not a great environment right now for trading desks. Valuations are up --> no one wants to sell --> cash piles up --> no one wants to buy at sky high valuations.
I think if you are in your mid/late 20's and not running a book/sales; it isn't a disaster, but you are starting to lag significantly behind some of your peers who are 3-4 years into sales and risk taking.
Lateraling banks is the cleanest way to make a break; which also gives you the opportunity to explore related products (sec lending etc.). At this point I would be targeting junior trader roles at T2/3 firms (don't want to get stuck again as a TA); which probably means you will be more agency and less risk.
You could easily lateral to risk etc., unsure if that is appealing, but it is probably a good idea to specialize within the next few years for career development.
Hi guys, thanks for the replies.
No, not at all opposed to sales at all. I’ve been working with headhunters to move firms, so I’ve definitely been on top of it. Have made a bunch of contacts through my own hustle in IG/HY that are willing to go to bat for me, and had a few interviews at various tier 1/2 shops but nothing has hit as of yet.
Problem at current, and I want to be careful with my identity here, is two-pronged: my firm is basically going bare-bones on sales & trading and has all but scrapped bringing in anyone without a track record already, at this point, and my group isn’t really buy-side facing, only dealing with other broker-dealers and only a few buy side shops the sales guys are fiercely protective of. It’s a dead-end to ask, I’ve asked a couple of the guys already and got told not to ask.
Cognizant that the clock is ticking from a breaking in standpoint, doing the best that I can. Thanks for the help!
Would you considered a pursuing a junior trader role on the buyside? There are a decent amount of real money shops (Metlife, NY Life, Lord Abett come to mind) that hire dedicated junior traders in credit products (IG/HY/LL). I think that it is a position that goes under appreciated as the junior traders get a significant amount of involvement investment process and are constantly interacting with portfolio managers and the sell side.
Anecdotally, I have known people who have started in junior trader roles at real money accounts that have become senior traders at their respective shop, or moved on to very lucrative positions at hedge funds or on the sell side.
I work on the HY desk at one of those firms. It's a great job and open to non traditional sell side S&T backgrounds.
Moment of truth, my friend. I was in your shoes many moons ago and I know exactly what you're facing.
-If you are at a Tier 1 Bulge Bracket shop, you have an OK (HY/IG for XX years. And no one is going to hire a salesmen lateral without some book of business, unless its with a interdealer broker (yikes).
My advice to you? Move to the buyside (trading, research, whatever). It won't be as fun, and the money is going to suck for the first couple of years, but its one of the only Front Office avenues you have at the moment. And the longer you remain a TA, even that door will shut.
Noted—I’m looking over on the buyside too but its been admittedly more sell-side focused with headhunters. Not opposed to that either.
I’m definitely at a tier 1 BB (have worked at 2 actually), so good to know you think my odds are at least a little better.
You mind me asking how it ended up for you?
Just to reiterate- the odds may be better at a tier 1, but its still going to be VERY difficult. If I were you, I would basically reach out (i.e. cold call) to every Tier 2/3 credit desk head under the sun and ask them out for coffee. Because you're coming from a strong desk, I am willing to bet that most would be happy to meet with you. If anything else, they could use the meeting to gauge how the competition is looking. This is probably your best/only shot.
Me? I was at a Tier 2, so my fate was basically sealed. So I went the credit research route. It sucked for about 2 years in terms of pay, and I had to do a ton of learning on my own, but the pay is fair now and I enjoy the role. Also, I am about 5 years in at this point and starting to interview at HF's. All in all, I am generally happy with the way things turned out, and I am probably closer to becoming a PM than I would have if I would had remained trading flow credit.
Why is that happening?
When you say buyside you mean RM right? I feel like FM would pay >= bank, but then again flow credit pays so idk
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