Any info on Elliott?
Anyone know anything about them? Few questions below
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Are they mostly an activist shop or do they also still dabble in distressed? Do they have specific analysts for the public/private activist stuff and distressed or do analysts do a bit of everything?
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Anyone know if they take summer analysts? Feel like I've seen a few on linkedin, and maybe the exceptional intern gets a FT offer i don't know.
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Anyone have data on comp? Ppl on this forum love Elliott so I assume analysts must be making 7 figures and for PMs, god knows how much. Elliott had a $1bn+ position in Twitter, and I'm pretty sure they more than 2x their money in that over the past year, they're out now. I'm sure the guy who put on that position got paid 8 figures.
Here are my thoughts on one particular subject: returns/performance. They may only put up like 12%, but Elliott has created an extremely unique, attractive, uncorrelated product for its LPs. They got to $40bn+ for a reason.
Anyone?
"Guys please don't say Elliot sucks" hahahaha
Elliott Sucks lmao
op with a subtle edit lol
They remain one of the most prominent distressed investors in the market. However, the nature of the asset classes means it’s far, far easier to deploy capital into public equities than into distressed, which is basically illiquid by comparison. Given their AUM, they need to deploy hundreds of millions if not often a billion+ for a real position and in recent years there have only been a small number of distressed situations where that opportunity even exists. So that fact alone means they’ll almost always have more money in equities than credit. That said, the distressed investments they make usually have a heavy activist angle to them so it’s not a totally different strategy and there are PMs/analysts at Elliott that will work on both.
As for the success of Twitter or any individual trade, it’s hard to say from the outside. They run a quasi market neutral strategy where they hedge market risk, which is partly why their returns appear so low since they don’t run a crazy amount of leverage.
Was in your shoes a few years ago so will provide the best advice I can from my experience and from the experiences of my friends who are at HFs. I ended up choosing an industry boutique IB over a HF because I wasn’t set on HFs but here is my advice.
1. Basics- maintain a good GPA, get into the good investment clubs, show that you are smart and very interested in investing
2. Network- HF world is a very small world and most managers know each other. Thus it is important to network as much as possible because even if one fund isn’t looking for an intern or analyst, people at the fund may know of a different fund that is. Hedge funds are generally very discreet about hiring so the more people you know, the better.
3. Become an expert- Whether it be distressed, commodities, FI, or a specific industry niche within the equities world, become an expert on something. Be so confident in your opinions and in your knowledge that you are able to have candid discussions about the market of that entity with industry professionals.
4. Read- Read WSJ, WSO, The Atlantic, FT, or anything else that will provide insight into fund activity and general industry activity. If a new fund launches in the area that you’re interested in, you should already know that they were planning to launch months ago and what their specific angle is.
5. Thesis- To top off all of the other steps, it is important to have a thesis. Have a thesis on where the industry you’re interested in is going. Have a thesis on potential investments to make. Have a thesis on what type of funds are going to succeed in the next 3, 5, and 10 years in the area you want to cover.
It is tough to get HF looks out of undergrad but it’s definitely doable, especially at a target. Most important thing is that you follow these steps and stay persistent over the next few years. There will be times where your options look bleak but it is of utmost importance to stay focused even during those times. Good luck.
My advice is dont listen to all you hear on this forum, its very inaccurate for the most part. For example, you are lumping in activists and tiger cubs despite them having a completely different investment process, you probably heard they are similar from WSO when they are not for the most part.
It sounds like you want to work at these places cause its the "top job" (not because of their investment process, not judging this just observing) but I dont think the activists are going to be as good seats in the future. you are 5+ years out from the job market and activist risk adjusted returns have been very bad over the last 5-10 years so I would expect large fee compression by the time you enter the industry. Already seeing it in a lot of these funds.
Id say shoot for more of like a Holocene/Melvin type single manager (Citadel and SAC spin Out). I think this is where SM HFs are going in terms of what allocators want. They want tight risk parameters and wont pay 2 and 20 for funds that are 40% net long like they used to. Some of the tiger cubs are also great seats, I think these funds that are good stock/sector pickers have a place in the future.
A good example of the forward outlook is that Ben Jacobs who was a very senior PM from Viking raised less than 1B when he launched anomaly when Brandon Haley raised 1.5B scaling to 7.5B when launching Holocene after leaving Citadel.
Also dont write off the MMHF seats (many hire out of undergrad), they are becoming increasingly more attractive as their returns are frankly way better than all of the SMs. I agree that rn the SM seats at activists and large cubs are better rn, but will they be in 10 years when you will have most of your career earnings? I dont think so... could be wrong
For getting into these places network like crazy, connections matter more in HFs than PE. Also you want to show a near unhealthy interest in the markets if u want to go to one out of undergrad. They need to know you dont need hand holding and already have the skills you normally learn in banking, be professional/financial modeling/understanding business/etc.
I think your best use of time will be to learn more about things that actually interest you from a "what do I want to do with my life POV". You are clearly intelligent and know more about the lay of the land for the HF world than most college seniors, so it'd be a waste of your time to worry about the nuance between Elliott, Balyasny, Tudor, etc. It also doesn't sound like it would take you too long to work through the Rosenbaum & Pearl textbook (if you already haven't) and pick up the basics of finance including modeling and LBO theory / mechanics. This will leave you with almost the entirety of your college career to dip your toes into different areas of finance and see what you like best. Try out long-term, fundamental value investing types focused on public markets. Try out operationally focused, small cap PE types. Don't just worry about distressed credit, explore the world of rates and currencies too. Did you know there are billions of dollars raised, and several funds only dedicated, to financing music royalties, ticket presales, and the IP associated with sports athletes? Go check that shit out and see if you like it. Can't forget about commodities either. My point is that there are so, so many different things finance touches and a lot of industry folks don't even know about some of them. You have the benefit of being ahead of the curve compared to your peers, embrace that advantage by exploring different avenues. I promise, promise, promise that spending a summer doing something "unrelated" to vanilla IB or PE won't put you at a disadvantage to get the main junior internship or FT spot at a top bank or MF PE analyst program.
bro are u the srivatasan kid on twitter/podcasts? only other 17 yr old i know who is fluent in finance
what this kids twitter?
Its not that crazy bro there's a lot of high schoolers these days who know this stuff. I did when I was in high school and many of my friends did too. I didn't go to some expensive private school I just went to a regular public school, private schools are filled with kids like this and its not uncommon at all.
COMPLETELY disagree. A few highschoolers know what hedge funds are, a few know the names of some BBs/EBs, a few know who the top HF managers are, a few read random posts on WSO and call themselves experts. I have not met a single person under the age of 18 that knows as much as this shaquille oatmeal kid. Kid gets it. Cannot say that about any other 17 year old. I went to private school, siblings go to private school, and no one knows this much. He may be 17, but he sounds like he's at the level of hedge fund analyst. This is a kid who read all the classics, knows a shit ton abt the HF world, and was approved by Joel Greenblatt. Probably not another 17 year old with that skillset. I'm looking to get in early stage on this Shaquille Oatmeal kid and 1000x my money when he IPOs. Shaquille oatmeal if you are reading this, don't fuck up, you have so much going for you kid
Bro thats such cap. By the time I was 16 I had read every single book on investing you can find and knew everything shaqoatmeal did too. I had a couple friends who did too. So many high schoolers these days intern at buyside firms too (usually 1B-10B in aum). Your school was probably just an anomaly or you were in high school too long ago. I was in high school last year so have a good understanding of this. Woww he knew that distressed debt has structural limits, I knew that when I was 13 and I am not some genius. The internet has made it so that anyone can learn this stuff rather quickly. I even remember kids in seventh grade talking about event driven vs LS equity.
Did a little background check on u :). You don't work at a hedge fund, and you're not on the level of shaqoatmeal. You can tell by the way you speak/write. You're going to rutgers or stevens dude. Not making fun, I'm just saying. And please don't tell me you're going to an ivy, because why the fuck would you ask about rutgers and stevens then...EVEN if you are going to an ivy, let's look at some of the things you've said/asked recently..."Why is modeling important?", using phrases such as "In regards of prop trading" and words such as "destiny", thinking that pros actually trade stocks. You are probably the type of kid who knows that MM funds structure trades around earnings, hence your interest in short term trading. You probably think that "gee since MLP is long XYZ stock before earnings, that definitely means it's going up", without realizing that they make bets on obscure alternative data and an insane amount of channel checks. AI is already used in probably over 50%, close to 75% of hedge funds. Computers can't trade credit, especially distressed credit, and they won't be able to in the future simply due to the nature of those asset classes.
Show shaqoatmeal some respect, you're just not on the same level as him. Any pro will completely agree with me and everyone else here. Everyone here can see through your cap because no one agrees with you lmao. Maybe your school is the only school like that. Even if that's the case, shaqoatmeal would probably be ahead of all the kids at your school. In this business, you can easily figure out how smart someone is based on words they use and how they speak. Very few students have this capability, shaqoatmeal is one of them. That's just the truth dude
Those motherfuckers took over AC Milan and are one of the driving forces in the shit new "Super League" in soccer/football. For fucks sake man stay the fuck out of the beautiful game.
^^^^
1. They do a bunch of different stuff, including distressed, activism, commodities, PE, litigation etc. My understanding is some groups are split off (PE is a separate group/office), but others have broader scope.
2. No clue on this, but doubtful. Their interview process is pretty insanely intense and competitive. They can basically take anyone they want, so you really have to be the kind of person they're looking for. Don't know what they would get out of an intern.
3. The numbers you're laying out for analysts are way too high, but they do pay much higher than street at the analyst level. I think you're salary estimates here have been skewed by 2020 numbers. Generally shops with large support functions pay less at the PM level, as they need to cover costs of legal, research, etc. but I am sure the SPMs you're talking about that put on the trades make 8 figures+.
I'd also second what everyone else says here, they're more focused on risk management than almost any other similar fund, and so they pay out a lot of performance to not have down year.
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