Associate at a small shop or analyst at top 10 PERE?

Hi WSO,

I thought I would post on here to see if anyone with more experience could offer guidance related to my situation.

I graduated from a decent state school last year, landed an Analyst role in AM for a mid size RE PE firm focused on large office assets.

Killer firm with great learning opportunities, I really like my coworkers and I get heavy exposure to the principals. I made associate after 13 months (I’ve been grinding my ass off, got a serious associate REIB offer and they offered associate for me to stay).

I received a LinkedIn message from a recruiter who had a role in my City (tier 1 east coast) for an AM analyst role at a top firm (“mega fund” as people love to call them). Am I crazy for not being at all interested? Hours are the same, the comp is slightly better but my concern is I will just be another cog in the machine. At the current shop I have the opportunity to give legitimate input and feel that if I were to stay long term there could be some serious carry at play.

So: small shop or big shop

 

What are your end goals? What do you want out of your career?

If you're happy at a small shop, then there's no reason to move. If you want to work at a MF and to have the "prestige" (this is stupid and made up by WSO - not to say you shouldn't move, just that it shouldn't be due to reputation of the firm), then move.

A lot of people's competitive side make them want to be seen as the best in their industry, and to many people that means working at the most successful firms. This is why MF's are so popular. If you don't care about that, I'd take the higher role with the potential for carry later on.

 

You are not crazy at all for being uninterested. Firm "prestige" is a WSO/student thing, but a really dumb thing to use in actual career decisions in the real world. You should evaluate this role independently, is it a move up, do you like the firm, etc. Frankly, there are probably many people in the "mega funds" who would trade you for your role. If you really are on an upward path at a firm/team you like, and they have already promoted you (meaning they have signaled they value you as well), I would only leave for a REALLY good/major job opportunity.

The "mega fund" thing sounds like this could be a downgrade tbh. But as others have said, this is your career, how does it all fit in??

 
Analyst 1 in RE - Comm

Am I crazy for not being at all interested? Hours are the same, the comp is slightly better but my concern is I will just be another cog in the machine. At the current shop I have the opportunity to give legitimate input and feel that if I were to stay long term there could be some serious carry at play.

So: small shop or big shop

You know the answer to this already, my man. I could see you chasing resume clout if you were unhappy and this was simply a "would a lower title at a better name firm hurt me?" question, because I've been there before, but it isn't just that. Your current company thinks highly enough about you to immediately promote you when you had an opportunity to leave, you have "legitimate input" in the decision process, you like your coworkers, and you see a future there. These are all fantastic things and you already know that. 

Ultimately it does come down to what you personally are interested in, but for me, having real input is a whole lot cooler than a shiny bullet point on my LinkedIn. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

I’ll counter argue against everyone here. If you have Starwood on your resume when you’re young, it will 100% open doors that other firms will not.

I have seen this play out first hand. Just an example, but getting “great experience” and being well respected at an unknown group will not yield better exit opportunities than being a poor performing analyst at Starwood. The name matters. However, there is an exception to this rule below…

Relationships trump name brands every time.
 

1) If you have great relationships at your current firm

2) If you have managers who will bend over backwards to help you if you ever need it (eg moving markets or roles within the industry, references, etc)

3) If there is a real path to a more senior role within the company (eg someone who has more responsibilities outside of excel, PPT and market research)

That means more than any fancy company name. You have to be the judge though. Are your relationships truly on that level? Is there a real path to promotion? It’s really tough to decipher at a young age and after only a year on the job.

Also, why were you interviewing less than a year into the role? If it’s as great of a role as you say… that doesn’t add up

 
Most Helpful

I'll counter argue against everyone here. If you have Starwood on your resume when you're young, it will 100% open doors that other firms will not.

I have seen this play out first hand. Just an example, but getting "great experience" and being well respected at an unknown group will not yield better exit opportunities than being a poor performing analyst at Starwood. The name matters.

 So, first I totally agree with your exception that I did not quote! That said, I have to say I've personally observed the opposite. Meaning, "great experience" and "great performance" leading to doors being opened, advancement, and even into bigger, well known firms. Not to cite the obvious, but the question posted by the OP is literally such an example (at "lesser" name being recruited by "mega fund"), so the actual question is literally the counter point. 

If you do awesome cool stuff for Starwood, sure, you get more doors opened than with basic/boring stuff elsewhere. But it the stuff you did that matters!! The "poor performing analyst", they wash out, and leave the industry. Hence, you are missing a HUGE survivorship bias in your analysis. Name of firm matters a whole lot less than people think it does, that has been my experience. If you have name drop your firm/school, here is a hint... you are still yet to be an accomplished person. When you have legit wins, you speak of those, not the firms themselves. Thus, the name effect feels like that at the analyst/associate level, I assure you, it feels much much less the more senior you get. 

 

You’re ascribing value to the fact that OP is getting an interview at a larger fund but also recommending he stay at the smaller fund because it’s better experience… which is it?

The value prop of getting looks at larger funds is worthless if you don’t believe work experience at larger funds is as valuable as work experience at smaller funds.

This is literally like that joke about the guy who is in a flood, people want to rescue him, but he keeps waiting for god to save him. God is sending OP an interview at a mega fund, and he’s turning it down because his small fund will get him more interviews at a mega fund later? (which btw I don’t agree with, your chance to join a mega fund is primarily at the ground floor)

Is it not implied that you’ll do more interesting work at a mega fund? Smaller funds can’t execute on as large / complex of deals because they don’t have the capital / resources

 

I mean the whole reason people want those jobs is for the high pay. If the pay is similar and you’re already at a shop with good hours not sure why you’d entertain it

 

*Posted this in another post but figured it relevant.

As a junior: Jack of all trades / generalist > Ace/ specialist -> got to figure out what you want somehow

Senior roles: Jack of all trades / generalist <= Ace specialist -> good at what you do and will probably have the time to really become an expert in 1 to 2 sectors. 

Acquisitions is volume and helps with understanding investment rationale, structuring, and legal. AM is how the sausage is made with executing on a business plan (*caveat being you typically work on same 15-20 assets that could be a singular asset class).

Another thing to consider is strategy. Working on a strictly core portfolio all your career does not expose you to the hairer side of real estate where you get thrown into the weeds. You don't now what you don't know until things go south usually, then you break out the legal docs. 

Also, the small shop vs big shop argument.

My take, big shop early on for branding and exposure (ideally core + opp fund on a multi-asset class platform). Big shops tend to be silo'd, so you become good at your defined role. Big shops entail established processes and formal approvals (lots of levels to navigate through, so takes time to expand your role). (Left a so-called MF) For me, I chose to transition to a middle-market, well-capitalized firm with good volume and caliber (run lean, so process and react - exposure to upper management with quality experience). Exposure to all things process - acquisitions, AM, PM, legal, accounting, relationship building, etc. Helps establish the foundation of "putting a deal together".

On comp, everything at the junior level is not as meaningful. Go where you can learn and develop a skillset ultimately but obviously don't get jipped (know your worth). 

Realistic target comp for the avg. undergrad: 60-70K + 20-30% (geography dependent) 

1-3 years experience: 80-100K base + 30-50%

VP Level+ -> varies so much so no comment here (no clue myself tbh)

 

At least interview/meet the team. Maybe you hit it off with them, maybe you hate it and there’s your decision. At this young / junior of a level, who cares what your title is (what you’ll be promoted in 1-2 years and hit associate where you’ll again make more than your current role/current next promotion?). Prestige/brand etc will open doors that may otherwise be shut. Do not discount that. But Realistically I’d only turn down an offer and stay if I truly like my team/manager and platform. Is there growth? Are you learning a ton? Do you see your expected trajectory over the long run etc (personal and firm)? That’s really going to be the answer. If you love the team and they love you, and you see your path stay. If not jump. But I would 100% talk to the recruiter and look to move forward. Even if just for a learning/training experience.

 

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