Besides just looking at league tables which is better for opportunities?
For example it seems that Barclays is known for having a higher return rate and opportunity to do M&A within groups with a strong culture. I have heard bad things about Citi in regards to culture.
Can anyone shed light on pros and cons on both of these options?
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Hey ngreenbanker2, I'm the WSO Monkey Bot and I am sad to say, but this thread is lonely, so thought I'd post in here to try and help out. Some potential topics that might help:
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does anyone have any advice on this?
sorry i dont have an answer but i'm curious as to what you've heard about citi's culture?
Depends on what group you're interested in.
I am interested in M&A but do not have any connections at Citi (alumni meaning), I am open to any group honestly.
I heard that Barclays allows analysts to do M&A within coverage groups, do you know about this?
Does citi also allow this?
Citi has a specific M&A group but a lot of coverage groups do their own M&A whereas Barclays does not have a specific M&A group and does it all within their coverage groups.
so how does this effect an analyst position? why does Citi have an M&A team if it also does it within groups?
Congrats on the offers.
You're going to be fine either way, but I'd advise you to pick Citi. Both have relatively high return rates and are bulge bracket banks, but in terms of group placement risk, I'd say Citi is a much better option. Because you are interested in M&A, Citi is a lot less risky since you cannot be placed into groups like ECM/DCM (whereas with Barclays, this is a very real risk). And the fact that Citi has a dedicated M&A group does not mean you will not get any M&A experience in the coverage groups. Sometimes it just depends on capacity and which MD sources the deal. Just my two cents.
While I take your point that the OP risks placement into capital markets at Barclays, I don't think s/he will have much of a problem if they have as strong (or even just decent) of a network they say they do. SAs aren't directly placed into a group upon getting an offer so they get plenty of time to network into a group they actually do prefer.
OP, I recommend going with the culture that makes the most sense for you as the whole placement process works itself out via networking process. Better fit = higher likelihood of a return offer.
Culture is definitely important (and I understand what you're saying), but I personally think that it is tough to make a choice between two banks based on rumors/hearsay about "culture." If the choice were between two specific groups, then that would be a more concrete decision to make, but within each bank, the culture between various groups can vary greatly. Also, culture is inherently subjective. The only way to be 100% sure about culture is to work with those people. You can be somewhat certain about the culture in a group if you have met and talked with a lot of the people in the group, but in my experience, even someone who you can get along with may not be someone who you'd enjoy working with.
Moreover, both Citi and Barclays have extremely high return offer rates. I don't think return rate is a significant enough of a difference to matter.
Have nothing to add other than that I personally know people who have had terrible experience with the culture at Citi.
Is it because it was more of a fratty environment which is often said on WSO? Were the guys who left less of the party type?
Yes, it was definitely because it was a very football/fratty environment. He was the party type but not the hyper bro/masculine type that Citi demands
what do you mean by "terrible experience: ..? because all investment banking as an analyst would be tough right
Hazing/bullying.
Hi! Do you mind saying what do you mean by hazing and bullying? Do you know what group this was in or was it pretty common across the groups?
elephant walks, bows and toes on bottlecaps, walls sits - just the usuals
I would go with Citi. Heard Barclays is looking to merge on the back of a weak IB business.
Have you spoken to Barclays CEO/top executives or just read an article in Financial Times? Not fighting if Citi is better choice or not but giving people any piece of advice based on press rumours is like saying "You have to leave GS now, Blankfein is gonna retire this year and I heard they will go down". See the point?
Yeah I see your point but if you're looking at long term stability, you know that with the info available, Citi is a safer bet. While the merger talks might be rumors, at least some level of doubt about the business is out there.
I know a couple people who left Citi before the end of their two years for non-finance roles because they hated the culture so much.
Is it because it was more of a fratty environment which is often said on WSO? Were the guys who left less of the party type?
wow really? what did they say they hated about the culture so much? did they go to a different I bank?
super uptight and unreasonable (comparatively to their peers at other banks of course); they left banking altogether
have had friends who left citi before their two years were up too. they liked the other analysts and associates but they had very inconsiderate MDs who would always ruin their weekends, holidays, friday nights. I personally would go with citi but they really do work you hard.
I am interested why you would go with Citi if the experience is so terrible as you said?
is compensation for an analyst basically the same across all BB's? how do bonuses work
Citi, easy. RUN from Barclays
why Run from Barclays? if I have more connections at one bank over another should I go to that one
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-18/barclays-puts-in-sen…
And this is not even considering how badly things are actually going there
I see why FaberGrad says this but you have to take into account he/she is in S&T.
Barclays S&T business is what is being threatened, not the M&A advisory business. If people did their diligence and read up adequately one would know.
I see your point but personally I disagree. Barclays IB is closer to competing with UBS, Nomura, SocGen than the other BBs. While All of S&T is being threatened everywhere, Barclays is especially bad at it. So you have a BB that has a weak Investment bank and Markets division. On the other hand you have Citi which has one of the best M&A deal flows, is arguably one of the strongest banks across US, EU and Asia, and every year kids choose Citi over firms that (often) are considered to be more prestigious. I highly doubt anyone is going to take Barclays over GS.
Finally, while it is relatively unimportant at a junior level, Jes Staley is incompetent like no other BB CEO
?
Personally, I think Citi has the edge in terms of deal flow and general momentum versus Barclays but I also suggest reflecting on who do you think you had a better experience with during your interviews/where you might fit in better culturally.
I've had friends on both the IB & S&T side of Citi leave early solely because of how much they hated the culture, but also have met individuals who've genuinely enjoyed their experience. I don't know if there's a right or wrong decision here and Citi has dedicated greater resources towards expanding its IB platform, but I think the points on culture others bring up are important to consider.
Thanks. Do you mind expanding on why they left if you know why?
Do you think choosing one firm over the other matters for exit opps or not really?
Pick whichever bank you have made the best connections with. Deal flow will be similar unless you're in the best/worst groups at each. Culture differs a lot but will depend on how you fit in and your own personality.
Thanks!! How different are the cultures from your perspective?
Everyone keeps telling me people leave Citi before two years because they hate the culture. I definitely do not want to be miserable and hate who I am working with!
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