Big 5 Canadian Bank (RBC / TD / BMO) vs Global Bank (MS / GS) in Canada
What do people think about working at a top group in a big Canadian bank such as RBC / TD / BMO vs working at a Canadian office (specifically Toronto) of a global bank such as MS / GS?
I understand that the global names have more recognition and prestige, but does that imply better deal experience?
Also, are the exit opportunities materially better for one over the other? If one wants to move to a Canadian PE shop (Onex / Brookfield / Altas), would the MS / GS brand name outweigh working at a RBC / TD / BMO?
Would appreciate any insights on this topic!
Canadian PE shop - does not matter.
Going to the US - RBC is best, GS/MS are good but don't expect the name itself to carry direct looks into a UMM/MF NY/SF exit like a GS/MS NY/SF would - HHs know the difference and there is definitely an American T1 city premium - will usually have to lateral intra-bank cross-border first and then exits galore. Generally speaking RBC M&A has the best exits for anything (have seen tons of Evercore NY laterals from that group, some solid NY MM placements too), Canada or US-related. BMO M&M good too.
Brand as a whole, I think RBC is still just the strongest. For lifestyle and comp, I've heard great things about TD. With other banks, I think CIBC and Scotiabank are lesser known of the Big 5 in the US although for Houston, I think Scotiabank is not bad as they used to punch above their weight there - not sure now.
Thanks, appreciate the insights here. I’ve heard RBC M&A is the best group for Canadian PE exits / NY laterals as well
Correction on GS/MS Toronto - they've sent analysts to Silver Lake, Blackstone, Advent, Warburg Pincus, Searchlight, Onex, etc. Definitely gets top looks (and no Canadian discount in recruiter's eyes)
Would you say there is a preference for global banks vs RBC / TD M&A for Canadian PE exits such as Onex / Brookfield / Altas?
The globals will pay you in $USD which is a nice touch as well.
EDIT: Appears I was misinformed - see below.
at a global- this is not true, but salary is higher than B5
Agreed - friend of mine is at MS / GS Canadian office and gets paid the US base salary in Canadian dollars
I’d take RBC and BMO over the other big 5
damn really BMO over TD? why? is BMO M&M just THAT good?
BMO has a bigger presence in US because of their Harris Williams / Harris affiliate. People are very aware of their IB presence. TD is mostly just known as a retail bank in the US. But like I mentioned in my original comment, it shouldn’t make a difference for Canadian PE recruit. For Canada, to me, I think being in a M&A group - any M&A group from any bank - vs an industry group (obviously other than the ones each bank is known for like BMO MM, CIBC P&U, etc) might be more meaningful than pure bank-to-bank distinction.
Associate at a top big 5 so happy to chime in - if you're looking for U.S. MF PE exits, GS / MS beats any Canadian bank lights out. Brookfield, Onex, Altas, etc. and other top PE firms in TO like RBC given RBC has a longstanding relationship with the firm / key decision makers, and often act as the house bank for a number of the larger sponsors. Will also look at TD / BMO. I wouldn't say you're disadvantaged to i.e. an RBC M&A for the aforementioned shops if you're coming from a satellite BB, however they understand the intricacies of deal staffing and which office drives execution (i.e. RBC M&A definitely gets a lot more reps of seeing deals from beginning to close), so I'd say that levels off any incremental "prestige factor" that the satellites have. Brookfield / Onex / Altas understand the Canadian M&A landscape, whereas U.S. domiciled MF PE still think of RBC as a MM bank so hold more weight to the prestige factor.
Can exit to MM / LMM PE or pension funds from any of the Big 6 or reputable independents (CG, Stifel, etc.). I've seen pension funds swimming increasingly "downstream" these days and are considering candidates from Big 4 with an audit/TAS/corporate finance background as well (not a knock on candidate quality, but rather an observation vis a vis precedents dating back a few years).
Thanks for chipping in - this is very helpful. Would you say then that HH’s representing Canadian PE shops look at someone from RBC M&A the same way as someone from MS / GS Toronto and reach out with similar opportunities within Canada?
HHs are generally aligned with how PE firms think about candidates because they're instructed to do so. Obviously HHs can layer in their own perspectives based on prior experience (and can flag them as insights or suggestions), but if Brookfield wants someone from RBC M&A, the HH isn't going to piss off their client by changing course. All a headhunter does is bring in strong leads that have a high probability of closing (which translates to fees for them) - whether that candidate comes from GS or MS or RBC ultimately depends on what the client wants and how the candidate stacks up against the rest.
Where does TD Securities stand? I hear they have been doing really well recently.
Will get looks from any of the Canadian PEs given recent strength in the league tables, although as mentioned by someone else often times PE firms recruit where they've had success historically. It takes years of sustained performance (and attracting top tier talent) to change recruiting trends, so a bit premature given TDs rise in dominance in the capital markets doesn't date back very far in the context of how long the PE firms have been around for.
All to say is you'll likely get the interview (assuming deal experience and other criteria stack up) but it'll be up to you to convince the person on the other side of the table why they should hire you over someone from RBC M&A.
Thanks for your insights!
Would it be okay to PM you? I have some questions about breaking into banking in Toronto as an international.
Sure but truth be told I wouldn't have much insight to offer - know nothing about work visas or how the process differs from traditional recruiting. I've been in Toronto my entire life so not something I've had to deal with personally.
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