Cornell Johnson or University of Michigan Ross

I3igDmsu's picture
Rank: Chimp | 4

I am interested in investment management and have been accepted to Cornell Johnson and University of Michigan Ross. I need to make a final decision on one of the schools in the next few days. Please let me what you feel is the better fit for me.

[b]My Goals[/b]
[]Gain experience in Asset Management / PE / VC (buy-side research, hedge fund, portfolio management, private equity, equity research)
[
]Eventually want to work in the Midwest (Chicago) after several years of experience.
[*]May consider working in a corporate development type role or starting my own hedge fund long-term

[b]Cornell Johnson[/b]
[]Ivy league brand
[
]From 2002 to 2011, the Financial Times, US News and BusinessWeek ranked Cornell on average at #14 while UofM was ranked #11.
[]Recent US News Finance ranks Cornell #12, while UofM is #11.
[
]Strong alumni connections (undergrad and graduate) in finance, asset management. Total alumni are almost half of the total alumni at UofM.
[]Out of 50 hedge funds that I specifically looked at, Cornell ranked higher than Ross for # of alumni and # of funds with alumni.
[
]As a hedge fund feeder school, Cornell ranks #2 for undergrad, which provides great alumni connections. Ross is not in the Top 5 (http://hfobserver.com/news/top-u-s-hedge-fund-feed...). []For private equity, Cornell is ranked slightly below Michigan (#12 v. #13 http://www.wpen.org/article.html?aid=397)
[
]Opportunity to help manage the Cayuga Fund, one of the largest student-run funds
[]Close proximity to NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. Lower placements in the Midwest.
[
]Immersion program seems strong and helps prepare students for internship and full-time opportunites, strong interest in Capital Markets and Asset Management immersion.
[]Smaller MBA class of 278 side may build stronger relationships with others
[
]Tuition is approx. $103,000 for 2 years (more expensive than UofM).
[]Starting salary at Cornell exceeds UofM for Finance.
[
]From BusinessWeek, total career pay at Cornell exceeds UofM ($2.8 million v. $2.5 million)
[]Cost of living is cheaper than Ann Arbor.
[
]Ithaca is similar to Ann Arbor, but doesn't have as much to offer, is smaller, and there isn't much else around.
[]Johnson school of business not as state-of-the-art as Ross, but seems to have a great facility.
[
]Parker Center, Boas Trading Room
[*]Stock pitch competitions for top schools are sponsored and held at Johnson

[b]Michigan Ross[/b]
[]Not ivy league brand, but is absolutely an elite school.
[
]From 2002 to 2011, the Financial Times, US News and BusinessWeek ranked Cornell on average at #14 while UofM was ranked #11.
[]Recent US News Finance ranks Cornell #12, while UofM is #11.
[
]Largest alumni network in the world, strong in finance. Total alumni are almost double that of Cornell.
[]Out of 50 hedge funds that I specifically looked at, Ross ranked below Cornell in # of alumni and # of funds with alumni
[
]Opportunity to manage several venture funds there. None as large or reputable as the Cayuga fund at Cornell.
[]Close proximity to Chicago, which is not comparable to opportunities in NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.
[
]Close to home, family and friends. Easier to move to and find housing at, etc.
[]Action-based learning and multi-disciplinary program (MAP) seem effective and prepare students.
[
]Larger class size (~500) may make it more difficult to make stronger bonds with students.
[]Tuition is approx. $96,000 for 2 years (cheaper than Cornell).
[
]Starting salary is lower at UofM v. Cornell.
[]From BusinessWeek, total career pay is less than at Cornell
[
]Cost of living is more expensive than Ithaca.
[]Ross school is state-of-the-art and brand new, compared to Johnson.
[
]Great sports program, provides great way to network with others

Comments (36)

Jan 15, 2012

Ithaca is NOT similar to Ann Arbor.

Jan 15, 2012

I would pick Michigan Ross for several reasons.

Cornell sucks, and its location is terrible
girls at cornell look like dudes with long hair
Michigan OCR is better than Cornell Johnson's
Michigan football rules
Michigan has a ton of hot girls and sick parties at your disposal

in the end, go to Michigan if you want to get both good career prospects as well as good social life. I go to Cornell and I can't wait to get the fuck out of this shit hole known as Ithaca

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Jan 15, 2012

Michigan. Easy.

Jan 15, 2012

Michigan. Hands down.

Jan 15, 2012

You didnt apply for park scholarship? Or get any money from either school?

Ross is known to be more of a consulting school, but neither will really place you into buy side IM -- what is your background going in that you think you can go buy side as well?

    • 1
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Jan 16, 2012
shorttheworld:

You didnt apply for park scholarship? Or get any money from either school?

Ross is known to be more of a consulting school, but neither will really place you into buy side IM -- what is your background going in that you think you can go buy side as well?

I applied for the Park Scholarship, but did not end up getting selected for it. Correct, I did not get a scholarship from either school.

I would think that I have a better shot at IM from Cornell. I have about 5-6 years of experience in valuing businesses from a big 4 accounting firm. I have learned many of the modelling skills that a banker may learn, except for the deal making side. I think my experience is relevant, but not exactly that of IB. I also have done a lot of research in personal investing and have started a website aligned with this as well. Not sure if I have a shot but hopefully things work out.

Jan 16, 2012

Go Cornell, Ivy League. Hands Down.

Brighter Future: It is almost confirmed that Johnson Business School is moving to NYC because of the NYC Tech Campus. Mayor Michael Bloomberg has selected Cornell to realize his vision for a cutting-edge NYC Tech Campus that will serve as a global magnet for tech talent and entrepreneurship. There's also a new dean from INSEAD who will play a major role in expanding Johnson to NYC.

http://www.cornell.edu/nyc/ http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/content/201...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esBeepOTAxY

Jan 16, 2012
WSTBST:

Go Cornell, Ivy League. Hands Down.

Brighter Future: It is almost confirmed that Johnson Business School is moving to NYC because of the NYC Tech Campus. Mayor Michael Bloomberg has selected Cornell to realize his vision for a cutting-edge NYC Tech Campus that will serve as a global magnet for tech talent and entrepreneurship. There's also a new dean from INSEAD who will play a major role in expanding Johnson to NYC.

http://www.cornell.edu/nyc/ http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/content/201...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esBeepOTAxY

Great points, I would also be interested to see what they do with the Tech Campus in NYC for B-school in the future. I think this will have a great impact on the school if they move Johnson to the city. The INSEAD dean from what I've read is also top notch and likely great for the school.

Jan 16, 2012

i think purely that cornell is for finance and ross is management. duke is strong in both but not in the same realm

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Jan 16, 2012

ross

Jan 16, 2012
shorttheworld:

ross

Jan 16, 2012

and yes you have to spend 165 bucks going to and from NYC and spending ~9-10 hours on the road in the posh bus to go dibble dabble with bankers. oh and hotel rooms too.

rossrossross

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Jan 16, 2012

How big of a factor is Johnson's proximity to NYC for IB recruiting?

Jan 16, 2012

they had 30-40 peple going for IBD internships this year and 15 got them. and you have to drive down every weekend. not that much of a factor - - its not in NYC like columbia or nyu. flying from ann arbor is quicker

Jan 16, 2012

If you want to be a boss, go to ross.

Jan 16, 2012

I honestly wouldn't know which one to pick cause I haven't looked into Cornell at all for anything really. But it sounds like Ross would be pretty boss for you. And you'd be on the same campus as me, so your levels of awesomeness would increase by sheer exposure.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

Jan 16, 2012

UG id say corell

Jan 16, 2012

Ari Gold had a JD/MBA from Michigan. Conclusion - Ross.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jan 16, 2012

What about Ross vs. Anderson?

Jan 16, 2012

Ross > Cornell for MBA
Ross < Cornell for Undergrad
Ross = Anderson for undergrad (location preferences determine this)
Ross > Anderson for MBA (unless you want to be in Cali)

Jan 16, 2012
BigBucks:

Ross > Cornell for MBA
Ross < Cornell for Undergrad
Ross = Anderson for undergrad (location preferences determine this)
Ross > Anderson for MBA (unless you want to be in Cali)

Not sure if "Anderson" and "UCLA" are being used interchangeably here, but UCLA doesn't have a business major (or comparable) program in Anderson for undergrads.

http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/x24183.xml
So if studying business as an undergrad (as opposed to econ or something else) is a requirement, UCLA doesn't quite meet it. That said, UCLA still does place in IB somewhat. I've worked with a couple of analysts from UCLA at my BB a while back.

Jan 16, 2012

Anyone care to play devil's advocate?

Jan 16, 2012

if no one is playing devils advocate at all then you know something is up lol

Jan 16, 2012

Personally, outside the M7, the only school I would pick over Ross would be Berkeley (that is, of course, if IB is not the primary goal). However, for IB, neither Ross nor Cornell is particuarly strong, with NYU and UVA getting more banks on campus than those two. Go ask the finance clubs at both schools which banks exactly come to campus, and if Cornell happens to have more banks, go there. I don't buy the argument that less people gunning for banking translates into easier recruiting - banks usually adjust for this by adjusting their intake for each school based on the number of qualified people they find there.

Jan 16, 2012

At Cornell AEM is far more targeted than Econ.

Jan 16, 2012

Depends what exactly you want to do in finance, but for the most part Ross is more of a target.

Jan 16, 2012

I want to go into MBB.
And I'm a transfer. I don't meet the requirements for AEM so thats not an option.

My question is for MBB recruiting, which is better? Cornell Econ or Ross?

Jan 16, 2012

Otherwise Ross won't usually take junior transfers, from my experience working with the admissions staff. Also, the requirements are never set in stone - if you have other great features.

http://ivyleaguetransfer.com

Jan 16, 2012

I'm a freshman at Michigan.

Jan 16, 2012

To give some statistics, every year out of a graduating class of about 350 undergrad Ross students, anywhere between 2 and 5 will get into each of MBB full-time. This has been consistent over the years. It's usually the case that one of them is significantly more represented than the other two in any given year. But this probably has to do with the way recruiting played out, not a definite pattern. To get closed-listed onto the interview list from Ross, you will need a 3.8+ GPA. I'll you this, however: At Michigan it's better to be in the engineering school than Ross for MBB. But Ross is better for investment banking recruiting.

I can't speak from experience about Cornell. But Cornell is a well-recruited school, and I know their AEM program is solid.

Jan 16, 2012

Since there is no clear winner here, which would you rather go to based on gut feeling, location, logistics, etc? Going to either does not guarantee you anything other than a lot of firms recruit there. If you do well at either, you will be fine.

I'd think about it like this:

1)The weather sucks at both - neutral

2)I'd rather sit in michigan stadium on a saturday afternoon than Schoellkopf - UM

3)UM is a major feeder into Chicago/Midwest and Cornell into NYC/Northeast - neutral to slight advantage CU (although you can go anywhere from either...)

4) Cornell is in the Ivy League and Michigan the Big 10 - advantage Cornell for dinner parties, advantage UM for sports and atmosphere

5)Ithaca is the biggest town around for miles and miles. I like Collegetown when I visit, but it probably gets old after 3 weekends. Ann Arbor is a bigger town closer to a bigger (albeit terrible) city, Detriot. Advantage - both disadvantaged

6)Cornell has the most amazing dining halls/food options. However, you're competing against kids who will literally jump into a gorge and kill themselves over a test grade. UM is in Michigan................... Let that soak in for a bit.

7) Both have very strong, active alumni networks and people who actually care they went to school there. Neutral

8)If you're at all planning on spending a summer on campus, Ithaca is really nice in the summer with the lake/wineries/gorges and what not. Don't think Ann Arbor has quite the appeal.

9) At MBB and my current role, I've been more impressed with UM Ross kids than Cornell kids. Seem to have a hungrier attitude whereas perhaps Cornell kids think they're already achieved something/entitled. Likely based on wealthy enclave upbringings in the Greenwich/Bernardsville/North Shore mold.

10) Cornell has A LOT of kids from Strong Island. Advantage - UM.

Damn, no clear winner still

Jan 16, 2012
raider4ever:

Since there is no clear winner here, which would you rather go to based on gut feeling, location, logistics, etc? Going to either does not guarantee you anything other than a lot of firms recruit there. If you do well at either, you will be fine.

I'd think about it like this:

...

10) Cornell has A LOT of kids from Strong Island. Advantage - UM.

Damn, no clear winner still

This post is win

Jan 16, 2012
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Jan 16, 2012
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