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Corporate Politics, Job Outsourcing, Might Get Fired, How To Play Cards?

GoldenCinderblock's picture
Rank: Human | 17,423

I'm in a corporate politics situation, which is an arena I'm not very experienced in, and am coming to you for advice. Please keep replies relevant to the topic at hand and not just calling me a bad person and whatnot. If you're one of those "gung ho off to work we go" people who thinks it's a virtue to be a good employee and you should give all of yourself to everyone for nothing, then we probably won't have much in common and please move along. With that out of the way, here are the facts:

-I've been working at this job as an accountant for 2.5 years straight out of undergrad. I got busted selling weed shortly after starting and am on felony probation until September. I'm on a special type of probation where the felony comes off my record if I complete it successfully, which I will.

-I hate the job and I hate the corporate environment. I had two offers making $15K more rescinded after they did a background check and I stopped trying to look for a new job while on probation.

-This experience has led me to think more creatively about how to become financially independent and I've started a few businesses on the side and gotten into real estate. I've replaced about 60% of my W-2 income now and I'm married, so my point is that I'd be fine without this job. Self-employment is what I'm striving toward. But for now, having a job is desirable.

-I'm very good at my job. I'm the most senior person on my team and I've trained 4 people since starting, implemented new processes and improvements, etc.

-I also dick around a lot at work and while I'm pretty good at hiding almost all of it, over time, it becomes apparent. I'll explain. I do a lot of personal business shit from work and I more or less make my own hours. I also work from home without telling anyone sometimes. That's pretty much it. I do get my job done well though so nobody says shit. I'm also just a weirdo and it's obvious most people don't like me or are confused by me. I wear Vibrams and bike to work, bunch of tattoos, standing desk, doesn't go to company events, doesn't talk much, etc. so I generally seem unapproachable. I'm actually a super nice guy, but my personality is very not work appropriate, so I have to mask/repress almost all of it, so I come off like some weirdo drone to these complacent fucks. I get it. I wouldn't like me either. We just don't belong in the same world and I'm trapped here for now.

-I've seen the company grow 5X since I started and they're in the process of outsourcing a portion of my job to India. So I'm doing these training calls with these Indians, showing them how to do the job they're taking from me. Kind of hilarious.

-The two main players on the finance team are myself and my homie Gymbro, who is my only friend here. He got a new job and is resigning today. Only I know so far.

-Yesterday, my boss who works remotely had a call with me and put me on a 45-day "performance improvement plan" for seemingly no reason. The two main areas it addresses is timeliness and "errors." They say I make too many mistakes and need to work "core hours" and note that my clock-ins range from 6AM to 9:45AM in the last 5 weeks. They also combed through emails to make a list of "errors" I had made. I've been working flexible-ish hours for 2 years and the quality of my work has improved if anything.

-I have screenshots of Gymbro's clock-ins and his shit is even wilder than mine and he's gotten no talking-to. Regarding the "errors", it goes to show how little my boss understands what we actually do. I can go through those one by one and explain how it wasn't an "error" and just because he was CC'd on something doesn't mean there was something wrong with it. I can refute every point.

-Looks to me like they're gearing up to fire me for cause because they're getting confident with these India people. I want them to fire me, but without cause so I can collect unemployment for two months while focusing on my businesses and real estate endeavors and then get a better job once the felony is off my record.

-A guy who was doing my job when I started was also not liked by management. He's now an off-site independent contractor and they're paying him more than they used to.

How should I play my cards here? I would like to either get fired for cause and get unemployment or transition to independent contractor like the other guy did. I have leverage they don't know about yet because Gymbro is leaving and they'd be in a tight spot if we both left at the same time. They want me to sign the improvement plan they gave me and send it back. I'm thinking I should politely refute the mistake points and attach the screenshot of Gymbro's hours, sign it and send it back. What I'd hope to accomplish with this is make them think I'm building a case so they fire me without cause. What are the pros/cons of doing or not doing that? How would you play this in my shoes with my goals in mind?

Comments (239)

Jul 8, 2017

Here's a story for you, an east coast company fired a team and they called it reorganization. Now this team is suing them. I would seek legal advice and see what your options are.

    • 4
Jun 30, 2017

I think you've given them plenty of reason to fire you for cause. Mainly the fact you do outside work at the office and your hours. Gymbro's hours here and them not firing him are irrelevant unless you wanted to sue for wrongful termination, which you won't. It's good that you have a steady income source from outside your main position, if I were in such a situation I would likely quit my current job to focus on finding another job/ focus on my outside income source. I would politely refute the perceived errors and go from there.

    • 1
Best Response
Jun 30, 2017

You are on the money that's it's only a matter of when, not if they let you go. Your work performance/motivation aside, let's look at how to make the best of the situation. Your goal here should be to exit on your own terms. With that said, you should be playing for time on this Performance Improvement Plan ("PIP") until the news breaks that your colleague is leaving. The issue may go away for a short time. If you believe that the processes in place will not survive with both of you gone then that gives you breathing room for your record to be expunged, and get a new job in hand. I see 2 possible plays for you.

Stay the course with a few changes (Less risky)

I don't think you should use your colleague's screenshots as leverage, as it might be treated as a more serious offense, such as discussing salary.

Regarding the PIP, you can stall for time there by insisting that the the areas for improvement be as specific as possible. Don't argue every point, but look like you're taking a logical, conciliatory posture by zeroing in on the most obvious bogus "errors."

Going forward, make sure all of your work is done to a "t." Make sure you are at your desk at the desired "core hours," that your work is spotless, and that you keep everyone in the loop. This will give the outward appearance to everyone at work that you are trying, but make no mistake you are now at war with your manager. Document everything, and back up your emails somewhere offline. After every verbal conversation with your manager, send an email summarizing what was discussed, what requests were made, deadlines, and if further clarification is needed. This will help cover your bases if you need to move on to Plan B. These are all factors you have complete control over, which can buy you time.

Lastly, the other lever you can push is by demonstrating that the India team is not ready to take over. If you are in charge of training the team, then you know their strengths and weaknesses. If they are working semi-autonomously now, find the area where they still need the most hand holding and discreetly start paying less attention to it. If problems start showing up in their work quality/scope then management is forced to realize that someone still needs to continue tightening up training and processes.

None of this is to say that you are irreplaceable. A fortunate few of us are. What you are doing is throwing a wrench in their timeline, allowing you shift some of the pieces on the board in your favor.

Propose a buyout offer (High risk)

Companies don't like risk. If there's clearly not a good fit, and management is looking to give you the axe, then you can make it look like you're doing them a favor by negotiating an exit. This minimizes the downside risk to the company of you drawing months of unemployment, but keeps you employed on paper, and puts money in your pocket. This requires more finesse in sensing out your bosses appetite to pay you to go away rather than keeping you on payroll 45 more days, then possibly having to fight you before the state labor board. Propose that you exit to a consulting role solely responsible for knowledge transfer to the offshore team. Promise that it will be a turnkey solution once it is completed. I would structure it like this:

  • Fixed contract end date
  • Deliverable, realistic goals
  • Part time since you'll be focused exclusively on outsourcing your job
  • [x]% of salary
  • Standard employee severance agreement

The benefits here are that you can still claim employment, but you also get extra hours in the day to grow your side-hustles or find a new job. Again, you'll need to very diplomatically figure out if your boss would consider this as it could blow up in your face. Don't give him anything in writing, only verbal if a discussion starts. Make them spell it out first, and make sure that it comes from HR. If you manage to pull this off, you can add brass balls and negotiation skills to your list of strengths. Make sure you deliver on what you say you will this time, as it is a small world, and screwing them on a deal like this could come back to haunt you.

Plan B: You get fired

This is a real possibility given that they already have a good amount of ammo to use against you. File for unemployment regardless. If they dispute the claim, they will need to weigh if the cost of fighting you in front of the Labor Board is worth it. They may choose not to, especially if you live a "labor friendly" state like California.

Let's say they do dispute your claim. Remember all of the conversations you documented? The PIP you negotiated down to something reasonably attainable? The fact that you started showing up to work on time, and made "no errors," thus fulfilling the terms of the PIP? Time to drop those bombs and hope that you get a ruling in your favor.

Having written a long post about how to recover, I would be remiss in not saying to treat this whole experience as a lesson. I get that work can suck because the culture doesn't quite fit, but at the end of the day, your reputation is all you have, and that is defined by your work. In whatever future endeavor you go into, make sure you give it 100% and take it seriously. If you go the self-employed route (which I hope you do), you won't want the same bad habits affecting your relationships with your customers and business partners. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.

[edited for grammar]

    • 25
Jun 30, 2017

Now that's some solid advice / game plan. Do that. Couldn't have said any of it better.

    • 1
Jun 30, 2017

Thank you and thank you Bob as well. Do you think there's a way for me to go full time independent contractor? That would be ideal since they'd pay me more and I could work from home while pursuing my other ventures. Also getting mortgages with a longer job history is easier.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
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Jun 30, 2017

That would probably not fly with them. If you were a top performer, but were going to be re-structured out of a job anyway this would be more palatable. Right now, you don't have the backing of your manager, who would not trust you to go full-time remote. Making the suggestion will be perceived that you are arrogant/blind to your faults and are unable to change.

It's best to try to find a new place with a better fit to start over at since your current job is starting the process of drumming you out.

Think of it like having cheated on your girlfriend and giving her and STD. She's breaking up with you one way or another, but you may as well try to get a few more rolls in the hay out of your relationship while buying more time to pack your parachute.

    • 2
Jul 11, 2017

Who are you?! Need to know so I can stalk and learn ;) Very nice advice.

    • 1
Jul 12, 2017

I'm just a squirrel in the forest trying to get a nut.

    • 2
Jun 30, 2017

Should I CC my actual lawyer? What effects would that have?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 2, 2017

bumping for more opinions
Thanks for what I've got so far. Gymbro resigned Friday and I the signed PIP back to my boss with a page of polite refutations attached. Didn't attach Gymbro's hours yet. Might come off too combative. I have those on the back burner for now. We'll see how their tune changes Monday.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 4, 2017

My old boss did this. I could kind of see it coming. Only there were no glaring issues on my work or anything aside from being a few minutes late here and there.

I was starting looking for a new job and was buying time working there. They finally offered a few months severance and I took it.

Less than 2 months and a 2 week trip to Asia later I started at a new company.

You can try asking for severance like the above user said then that leading to unemployment to hold yourself out until September.

High risk though, up to you.

Jul 2, 2017

You seem to have brought on a lot of this. Sry bro.

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

I've been lucky enough to never be fired, but from conversations with someone once in charge of hiring and firing at a corporate, being fired is a huge red flag when looking for a new job. A lot of employers will not hire you on principle.

How comfortable is your current financial situation? If you need to keep on working every day to pay the bills, then yes, maybe keep your job. It's easier to find a job when you're in a job, but it's much harder to find a job if it comes up that you were recently fired.

What I would do is this - figure out how much time you have before they fire you, and resign the day before. If you think that you could be replaced, then I would resign the day before the PIP ends. If you're on a project and you're not replaceable at all, then I would resign the day after that's done. If your boss is taking annual leave, I'd resign the day they get back.

One thing to note is that resignations can get messy if the company has started processing the termination before telling you. You want to avoid that if you can.

    • 4
Jul 3, 2017

You routinely show up late, slack off while working on unrelated personal projects, intentionally stand out in a negative way by being tatted up, wearing vibrams, anti-social, and they're unhappy with your work product...all of this after they've given you a second chance for being a criminal (harsh, but true). I'd fire you and I think keeping you to "train" your replacement would be a mistake.

Jul 3, 2017

Hello @GoldenCinderblock ,

I am new to these forums. However, I was in a position similar to you in where they "axed" my department, and we lost about 200 jobs altogether because it was outsourced to India. Generally speaking, I would seek out legal advice on how to handle these situations, due to their part making you sign that "PIP" paperwork to cover their butts so when or if you should file for unemployment and/or file a suit, they will deny you based on "XYZ" circumstances.

I did read a number of the responses on here, @Spin Control did a marvelous response with exiting plans and analysis of your situation. I would "advise" not to use your coworker's information as leverage, it will bite back.

I think leaving on your own terms instead of theirs will be the best way to handle the situation. Keep in mind that if you pursue this route it will be hard to seek legal judgments against the company.

Since you are here for advice - Leave, live off of the Real Estate side income, and either do some travelling or improve your resume/CV outlook while your probation clocks out. This is the least stressful route and I think plays well long term wise.

Personal Opinion - Any company willing to outsource sensitive information (Accounting, Software Development, etc.) will be in for a big surprise if they get busted or something occurs. I don't like too many hands in my cookie jar.

Good Luck!

    • 2
Jul 12, 2017
HuntNKill:

Since you are here for advice - Leave, live off of the Real Estate side income, and either do some travelling or improve your resume/CV outlook while your probation clocks out. This is the least stressful route and I think plays well long term wise.

I think this is the correct advice. It's a hedge and hedges never provide the optimum outcome, but it prevents the worst downside, which is being fired for cause. Could take years to recover from that.

Jul 3, 2017

Honestly, having proof of hours is not going to hurt, but i would talk to gymbro to see if they were about to give him a performance review with the same reasoning. They may not have if they knew he was about to head out the door. Personally, I would try and open the door to discuss the improvement plan and what is not warranted. This should allow all parties to have an understanding of what is going on. If they are unwilling to do that then I would sign and maintain their standards. Frankly, doing personal business Shit is something I would not be concerned about until it impacts your performance or opens the doors to potential fraud. However, I am not the one signing your pay checks.

What I have observed in terms of being cut for outsourcing or changes in the overall business strategy is that if you are a solid performer they keep you or give you a severance package. I have only seen this at F500 companies and it has never happened to me personally. Also, the people that this happened to did not have a felony on their record - I know this will disappear, but should be taken into account.

Over all, I am bigger fan of resignjng than being let go in terms of future employment. The key is to leave with a good impression. Anytime a prospective employer can reference a previous employer that gives a thumbs up is a plus. Also, it is nice knowing that every job you have worked will welcome you back assuming their is a spot. If you have a solid reason for leaving a position then do so by all means. Just make sure that it makes sense to a future employer. I tried starting my own business and failed during college, but have it on my resume. I know why it failed and chalk it up to a lesson learned. No one has ever had an issue with it. Frankly, everyone understands wanting to be your own boss. If you are at a point where you can cut yourself a comparable check or live off of your wife's salary while growing your business do it. If not, be a little bit more smooth when handling those affairs from work.

    • 4
Jul 3, 2017

Sell your boss the weed. Take pictures of him doing it - even better with a few hookers. Use this to blackmail him. A friend of mine did that. He never had any issues with boss anymore. He was in the exact position as you - sales doing great, doing side jobs, got busted on selling weeds, and boss was an asshole.

    • 1
Jul 4, 2017

Definitely do not do what you are thinking of doing, unless you want absolutely horrible reviews from your current boss when you are looking for your next job.

As others said, you have brought this situation upon yourself. It is no one elses fault but your own. No pat on the back here.

    • 3
Jul 5, 2017

I gave my sister who's worked at Abbott for 15 years and is a higher-up a call Monday. She told me people spend years on these PIPs and if you improve at all, they can't fire you off that one and have to start over. So I'm just going to work perfect hours and leave on my own terms.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Jul 5, 2017

That's not true for most companies - in fact, the reverse is correct. If there's any way they can spin that you haven't met the PIP (which they can always do), they can fire you. At many firms, once they give you the PIP they've already made a decision that they're going to fire you, even if not immediately. The PIP is the paper trail that allows them to do that.

Jul 12, 2017
GoldenCinderblock:

I gave my sister who's worked at Abbott for 15 years and is a higher-up a call Monday. She told me people spend years on these PIPs and if you improve at all, they can't fire you off that one and have to start over. So I'm just going to work perfect hours and leave on my own terms.

Are you in the U.S.? In the U.S. they can fire you for any reason at any time. They don't like your cologne? Gone.

Jul 12, 2017

They would need to give me unemployment. They're trying to avoid having to do that by firing me for cause. My argument is they don't have justifiable cause that is documented well enough to hold up in court. And them pulling this might put me in a place to collect damages, which I'm currently investigating.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 5, 2017

I read a lot of these responses. I do think you have an opportunity to come back from the PIP but take the info that they are hitting you over the head with. You work for a place- that means you play by their rules. They've given you a chance to fix what's wrong and buy yourself some time. Fix it. It's not rocket science. Get your sh!t together and act like a grown up. Explain where you disagree (which you did) and do what they want you to. That's not selling yourself out for a job- it's being an adult.

Jul 5, 2017

Most people are at will employees and can be fired at their boss's discretion.

Jul 6, 2017

Looks like they've noticed I've stepped my shit up and are now bombarding me with "urgent" work, trying to force errors. I figure they can't fire me for working too slowly so I'm just doing what I can while being super careful in the hours they told me to work while BCCing my personal email on any "explanation" they ask for. The environment has become so unpleasant I almost wish I get fired.

Should I verbally tell my boss I'm open to severance package discussion? I hate playing these games. This shit is not my wheelhouse at all.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 7, 2017

He's probably enjoying having to maintain appearances as much as you are.

Jul 7, 2017

Funny to me that you make such a big deal of your lack of appetite/knack for office politics. All your observations about your situation are the level of granular and paranoid that, in my opinion, make for decent workplace politics skills, The only one you're really lacking, it seems, is the ability to manipulate your colleagues.

Not saying this to insult, mean it genuinely.

Jul 7, 2017

Be careful with BCC'ing yourself. My work email is monitored. Emailing work stuff to your home email could be grounds for immediate termination. Stay the course- don't drag things out intentionally. Do your best work how they want you to do it. I once got in trouble at work for emailing my home email because I couldn't get on to the network on a day I had to work from home due to a major snow storm. My boss was very nice (and still is very nice) but HR made him write me up for it.

Jul 8, 2017

The fact they're trying to force errors means they're looking for a way to fire you. It's not a PIP that's actually trying to improve your performance. I would find a way to quit ASAP, especially if you can land severance. You're on borrowed time here.

Jul 13, 2017

Be careful BCCing your personal email. Your IT dept likely will be flagging this.

Jul 11, 2017

Update on the situation: I came in Monday to a ton of emails. We're super behind and I'm getting bombarded with urgent shit. Meanwhile, I'm working slower than ever to avoid errors. I then get an invite to part 1 of a training session with India on a process I created. So they're not even pretending I have a place here anymore. With Gymbro gone, I see an opportunity to get off the PIP or something else advantageous to me so I send this email to my boss and CC HR:

"Hi Boss,
I would like to address my concerns regarding being on a Performance Improvement Plan. This plan focuses on errors for the next 45-days, which encompasses this transitionary period. Half of our team just left abruptly and I'm left to handle all non-homesale accounting functions while being asked to train the India team during our busiest season. We're currently behind and I am being inundated with rush requests while having to handle twice the amount of usual duties. I only have so much time and I am focusing on precision now more than ever. Knowing that my work is under scrutiny while being inundated with work is putting me under unreasonable stress and anxiety, even outside of work hours, and I don't feel this is sustainable. Seeing as the circumstances within our department have changed drastically, I fail to see how this 45-day period would be an adequate reflection of my improvement or lack thereof. Please provide me with standards and expectations for this period now that my workload has doubled. I feel very uncomfortable with this situation given the new work environment and the fact that my position is in jeopardy.

Thank you,
Me"

He replies:
"Me - I am glad you reached out and expressed how you are feeling. I will regroup with HR and CFO to work through this."

Two minutes later, he forwards that same email to the independent contractor dude on accident saying, "Hey can you take this please." He obviously meant to send him an assignment. I reply, "Boss, Jonas is an independent contractor and has no business reading about my Performance Improvement Plan, which is a personal issue." After that, he stopped sending me requests. He called me while I was in the bathroom and left a voicemail apologizing. I didn't call back. I left work at 5PM and turned my phone off for the bike ride home. When I got home, I had a voicemail from him sounding nervous saying he wanted to touch base. I didn't call back. He can touch base on the clock. Considering sending an email to him and CC'ing HR asking him not to call me off the clock. I realize I've burned my bridge here thoroughly at this point but I have the upper hand now.

Then today I just got in and found out his mom just died and he's flying to Israel to bury her. I was considering resigning and hoping they offer me some sort of "Stay and train India for 3 months for more money and get a good reference" package. And if not, I walk, which I'm pretty comfortable doing. I'm not sure doing it now would have the best results though now that his mom has died. They haven't replied to my original email yet and I'm going to follow up today. Sucks to do this to him at this time in his life but management has put me in this situation and I've gotta look out for myself.

I'm going to call a labor lawyer today to see what he thinks about the situation. I think between the anxiety shit, them trying to push me out, and the forwarding my shit to a contractor, I might have a small case. They're really panicking now that it's just me here alone and treating me real nice. Like they didn't see this coming. Don't know what the deal is. I also learned that Gymbro has been training India all wrong on purpose and it's just now starting to be an issue, so that's hilarious.

They just lost one big corporate client and we also have several big government clients. During a training session in which we were watching India do an upload, we learned that they don't have authorization to handle government files. The upload went through, but just skipped government files. And the VP who won the government files is this fucking 80-year-old lady who doesn't know how computers work and has a ton of connections and now she's pushing for us all to get government clearance, which only some people have now. And I will just refuse to go do that. They can't fire me for that. My point is that no government files are being addressed by India or myself and they might lose one of their biggest clients now.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 11, 2017

Think he can get in serious trouble for sharing your PIP with the contractor. Keep fighting the good fight!

    • 1
Jul 11, 2017

the india people can't get government clearance.

Jul 11, 2017

Just talked to a lawyer and they sound interested. Going to talk to a few more tomorrow.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 3
Jul 11, 2017

This is fucking gold. Why watch Netflix with dramas this good.?!

    • 2
Jul 11, 2017

He's going to end up rich for being a slacker at work. Sounds about right.

    • 1
Jul 12, 2017

This story is fun; subscribed.

...

    • 2
Jul 12, 2017
BreakingRich:

This story is fun; subscribed.

Seconded

Jul 12, 2017

I followed up on my email today:

"Hi DeadMomBoss/HR,

I'm following up on this. I also wanted to add a concern: I'm concerned as to why I am being asked to train the India team on the XYZ process, which is a process that I created and implemented myself and have been handling myself for over a year. I'm also being asked to train the India team on monitoring the ABC. I fail to see why they would need this knowledge if there is even one person on the MY team in the Chicago office. We are being reassured that we have a place here, yet I am being asked to train the India team on every single one of my job functions. I also fail to see how you are comfortable with me training the India team how to do my job when you indicate that you are unsatisfied with my job performance by putting me on a Performance Improvement Plan.

Thank you,
ME"

HR lady Replies:

"Hi ME,

I am going to forward this to CFO if OK with you since DeadMomBoss is out for a few days and CFO/DeadMomBoss oversee the department."

I told her das gucci.

Also, CFO seems to be making excuses to work with me directly on shit he's never handled with me before. Yesterday, he apologized verbally for my boss forwarding that shit to the contractor and said he'd have a talk with him. At this point, I'm doing my daily necessary shit but not doing anything extra and operating from a perspective of "Which task will be hardest to have an error on, take the longest, and make us the least amount of money." The only other person on my team here in the Chicago office whose job doesn't overlap with mine at all is interviewing for other jobs currently and doing the same thing as I am.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Jul 12, 2017

As someone mentioned above, you may say that you are not that skilled in office politics, but you are catching on quick.

You've got these guys on the ropes. I'd have a 1-on-1 with the CFO and ask him now that DMB is out of the office what the deal really is. Is there a place for you in the org, or should everyone try to part on "amicable terms" a.k.a. severance and good reference rather than continue this charade? I'd frame it (as your mindset, not your words) as the final chance to extend the olive branch before deferring to your attorney's advice.

    • 3
Jul 12, 2017

I think I'm getting the hang of standing up for myself in this environment, but I still can't figure out how to manipulate them. So you're saying to be straight up with them? You sure? My sister said never to do that and to play the game 'til the end because they'll never let up.

Would you put this in writing or verbally? How could I word it so that I'm able to turn back if they don't want to offer a severance package? I'm sort of biding my time here because we're getting more and more behind as time goes on. The only person still on their team is the independent contractor. And he actually hates them, which is why he's a contractor now (this dude trained me). He had a falling-out with the CFO; don't know what happened. Don't know how he got that setup. Been trying to get his cell from someone.

How I see it so far, here are my options:

  1. Stick it out for the 45 days, "improve" on the PIP, file for unemployment if they fire me, talk to a lawyer if they won't give me unemployment. Not a good option because now I got fired instead of quitting. I'm not sure I want another corporate job, but I do want the option. And realistically, I'll probably be an employee for a couple more years before it's worth my time to go fully independent. I'm sure I could still find a job if I get fired, but it'd be more difficult.
  2. Be straight up (to some extent) and bring up severance package discussion with the option to remain onboard for a definite period of time to train India. Guaranteed good reference. This is showing my hand. I don't think they can fire me for bringing it up, but if they're not down, I blew my load early.
  3. Wait until we're even farther behind and around the time my boss gets back (probably a week+; he flew to Israel) and resign. This is pretty low risk - medium reward. They either let me resign and have to give a neutral reference at least. I work on my business shit until my record is clear then I can apply with a story how I left to start a business and realized it wasn't scaleable or some shit. Or they offer me that same severance package from option 2.
    Am I missing anything or misinterpreting anything? This all assumes I'm reading the situation correctly. My co-workers who I can be real with see it the same way and so does my sister, but perception is reality and shit...

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 12, 2017

I had an idea I wanted to run by you all: Tomorrow morning, I'm supposed to train the India team on part 2 of the process I created/implemented. I re-read my PIP today and one of the "Next Steps" bullet points is, paraphrased, 'Verify this process is done perfectly'. What if I send another follow-up email to the effect of, 'I'm not comfortable training and being recorded doing this process since it is now under more scrutiny than ever. I would be performing the process under higher-stress conditions than ever before all while being asked to explain it while doing it and being recorded doing so. I can not pay full attention to detail while also having to explain what I am doing in real-time.

Thoughts?

Haven't sent that, but I am sending this:

"I'm just following up to see when we would be able to further discuss this. In addition, my plan states, "ME and I will conduct a status meeting every two weeks." Today is the two-week mark of my being placed on this Performance Improvement Plan. Who will be conducting this meeting and when will it take place? I would like to stay abreast on the status of my performance as well as further discuss my concerns given our new staffing situation.

I would appreciate some type of response or follow-up regarding this situation prior to my scheduled training with the India team tomorrow morning at 9AM as one of the bullet points under the "Next Steps" section of my Performance Improvement Plan is, "Verify PROCESS IS DONE, if NOT DONE, needS to be corrected and DONE within 3 business days."

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 12, 2017

I sent that and went on lunch. I come back to:

HR Replies:

"Hi ME,

Since DMB is your supervisor, he is on point to work with you on the PIP. As you are aware, his mother passed away and he is out of the country. In the interim, you can connect with CFO."

CFO replies 2 minutes later:

"ME, DMB will be conducting this, but as you know, his mom has passed away and he is attending to this. It is not reasonable to do this until he comes back sometime next week.

If you are confident you have done all the (PROCESS IM TRAINING INDIA ON TOMORROW AT 9AM), then be proactive in this and send a spreadsheet/email to DMB explaining what you did with the PROCESS, etc. Then, DMB and you can go over this next week when he is back.

Let me know if you need further explanation."

That makes no fucking sense. What fucking spreadsheet? He has no idea how this process works even apparently. I reply:

"I understand the situation. In this case, is my Performance Improvement Plan put on hold until DMB returns? Also, I don't believe the fact that our staffing situation has changed drastically has been addressed.

Regarding the PROCESS, my point is that I'm not fully comfortable training and being recorded performing this process since it is now under more scrutiny than ever and its successful execution is explicitly required by my Performance Improvement Plan. I would be performing this process under higher-stress conditions than ever before all the while being asked to improve on the process while training it and being recorded doing so. It's more difficult to pay full attention to the execution of a process while also having to explain it and answer questions in real-time."

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 12, 2017

Not a good response from them. Sounds like they're just running the clock down to 0. I would stay the course, try your hardest and document everything for when you file for unemployment.

If it makes you feel any better. One of my bros at another company just got canned because he got into a beef with a chick who is fucking his boss, and it got out of hand. Compared to that, your deft maneuvering of this situation is laudable.

Step it back a bit though, that last email from CFO was a warning not to push the issue with him, but the suggestion to document what you train on is helpful.

    • 2
Jul 12, 2017

Yeah honestly - I'm an intern so I don't have too much experience with office politics but Goldie is for sure killing it

Jul 12, 2017

Yea it doesn't sound promising. Sucks you have a felony. I just left a toxic work environment so I can empathize with the stress.

    • 1
Jul 13, 2017

CFO replies this morning:

"No, your plan is not put on hold.

I addressed the staffing on Tuesday with the finance team and you were in attendance. If you would like to go over again and know what INDIA is doing, please schedule meeting for Monday.

The training is to relieve the pressures off the staffing situation. Do the best you can on the training and again, come to me if you need guidance."

Seems he's saying, "Fuck you we're staying the course." He's going to force the resignation option because getting fired is my worst option. What's my move?
I'm doing the training this morning but I'm just going to confuse the fuck out of them on purpose.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 13, 2017

I'd do everything I could to stretch this out. More paper trail, time for felony to clear, keep getting paid, etc. September/October is realistically VERY VERY close. Tread lightly on the training if it's recorded.

Jul 13, 2017

I would do that, but I can't risk them firing me and having a bad reference at day 45. I can replace my income with my online business if I spend the same time there at the drop of a hat. Looks like I'm on track to resign on day 44.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Jul 13, 2017

This thread is golden. SBs all around.

    • 3
Jul 13, 2017

I just confused the shit out of the India team and they sort of gave up on asking questions. Just kept telling them to use discretion and speaking softly. Made the process way longer and more complicated than it had to be and did random portions on my second screen which I wasn't sharing. I'm going to see how far behind I can make this place in the next month. I really want them to fire me so I have a better case. Not sure how to make that happen.

Spoke with a paralegal last night who told me I'm doing the right stuff and to keep documenting but that the case is premature at this point. Gotta call back a few attorneys as well. Speaking with my criminal attorney in an hour to discuss whether being employed matters for probation at this point. He might have some advice on this shit as well.

Fuck my sister's advice. Conservative ass corporate hag been the same place 16 years

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 5
Jul 13, 2017
GoldenCinderblock:

Fuck my sister's advice. Conservative ass corporate hag been the same place 16 years

I just died, haha.

    • 3
Jul 13, 2017

Best thread on WSO right now hands down. You're a legend, stay strong.

    • 1
Jul 13, 2017

Just spoke with my criminal lawyer and he told me we got a new DA and she's a cunt and I should maintain employment until after court. He said I might get off probation when I go see my PO though and they won't make me go to court. Also, apparently the type of probation I'm on (410) has changed and I don't need to file some shit to get a clear record anymore; it just goes away upon completion of probation. So that's good.

Next probation date: 8/3
Court date: 9/19
PIP Expires: 8/11

I guess I'll step up my work game slightly, but keep standing up for myself and documenting everything. I'll stop trying to piss them off though for now. I need to not let my desire to see this company get fucked overcome my logical self, who shouldn't care about this company but should act in his own self-interest... Motherfuckers like you're not a team player Goldie... bitch this is a fucking job. I'm on team Goldie Family not fucking team faggy company.
Relax, Goldie. Relax.

I'm starting to think things happen for a reason and shit. Maybe we're all in a simulation. Maybe I should go to synagogue. You know I went on Birthright just to drink and fuck.

So I'm just going to maintain this job then and at 45-days, what happens happens. Pivot from there. Taking drug tests every week cause you know yaboy smoked herb all of probation but flirted with his PO who would warn him of upcoming tests before which Goldie would test himself... bro how do all these minorities fail probation it's easy AF. 12 drug tests are like $20 on Amazon.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Jul 13, 2017
GoldenCinderblock:

So I'm just going to maintain this job then and at 45-days, what happens happens. Pivot from there. Taking drug tests every week cause you know yaboy smoked herb all of probation but flirted with his PO who would warn him of upcoming tests before which Goldie would test himself... bro how do all these minorities fail probation it's easy AF. 12 drug tests are like $20 on Amazon.

It's the system bruh. Get woke!

    • 1
    • 1
Jul 13, 2017

Really? So being a self-employed entrepreneur gets you dinged by the government? Yeah, I guess that sounds about right.

Jul 13, 2017

As an afterthought, you could do worse in burning bridges.

I'm about to punch eject on a job I've been at for a month, for a job that I'm going to leave in Fall 2018 for business school.

There's always a bigger douche...

    • 1
Jul 13, 2017

I have played some heavy corporate politics.

I read most of this thread. I think you made an error when the boss accidentally sent that email. He was calling you with a need to resolve something. This could have been your chance to talk to him frankly about the situation. You should have taken the after hours phone call.

Also, addressing your superior even on here as "DeadMomBoss" is very disrespectful. I can't imagine what kind of disrespectful language and body language you use at work.

I don't care about tats, vibrams, or anything. Just do the job well, don't give attitude and disrespect in the office as it seems this might be a recurring theme as to why you're having issues.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
    • 1
Jul 13, 2017

Isaiah is right. It's disrespectful to call him deadmomboss behind his back. Also call him that to his face and the balance will be restored to the force.

    • 2
Jul 13, 2017
Big4please:

Isaiah is right. It's disrespectful to call him deadmomboss behind his back. Also call him that to his face and the balance will be restored to the force.

Well, if he did say that to his face in person, he'd probably get punched in the face....

....which might result in a cash settlement to GoldenCinderblock

could work....

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Jul 14, 2017

CFO just called me asking if I can use our intern somehow to get caught up. I said it's his call but frankly, I'd spend more time training than it would take me to just do it myself. I'm starting to realize he doesn't have a great idea of what we do here. Maybe I'm wrong. He seems really earnest on the phone and in person and I can't fucking tell whether he's just really good at playing the game or he's actually not seeing this shit the same way I am.

He said he spoke with the CEO and they'll be re-instituting overtime for me. They took away our OT (we used to work tons of OT), which is why Gymbro started looking for another job. He had a kid recently. I told him I'd need to think about it and talk to some people because OT means more hours worked means more chance for errors to occur. He pushed back a bit about how we're all under scrutiny, not just me, and he's under scrutiny to get us out of this mess, etc. I kind of just said OK I understand. Not sure where I want to go with that.

Also, the attorneys and paralegals I've spoken with agree that the case is premature and that what they're doing is unfair, but not illegal at this point. And that I need to watch out for discrimination and retaliation. This is the second time in my life being a straight white male has not been advantageous. Honestly, the lawsuit is a bonus if it happens but I sort of just want to be the type of dude who sues a lot of people and I thought maybe this is how I get my foot in the door.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 14, 2017

You fucked up at the moment they realized that you are trying to play them. This happened when you started pushing too hard with the CFO. Can't play hardball with a company if they're the ones signing your checks (read: they always win). You have no more goodwill at this firm, even if they pretend to temporarily keep you on board - you'll get canned when you aren't looking. Prepare to promptly resign unless the goal is getting let go.

P.S. you have 0% chance of winning a lawsuit against this company as you have no case for any legal action. The burden of proof is on the accuser, and it is a very high bar. The company will cite your incompetence and insubordination, and your documented performance plan. You will cite an erroneously sent email? Good luck..

    • 1
Jul 14, 2017

I know I've got no case at the moment. That's what lawyers and paralegals told me. Case is just a bonus if it happens.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 14, 2017

My boss taught me that it's not whether or not you will win or lose a case--you can be sued for anything, which can cost you time and money. The way it's better to avoid a car accident through defensive driving, it makes sense to avoid lawsuits if possible. Nobody wins in a lawsuit.

Jul 14, 2017

Right, I see. Not to be rude, but is this just FYI or am I missing an implication in this for my situation? I'm reading it as "keep it up".

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 14, 2017
Dances with Dachshunds:

My boss taught me that it's not whether or not you will win or lose a case--you can be sued for anything, which can cost you time and money. The way it's better to avoid a car accident through defensive driving, it makes sense to avoid lawsuits if possible. Nobody wins in a lawsuit.

Lawyers win.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Jul 14, 2017

They're freaking out because we're getting very behind and clients are getting upset. I'm thinking of putting all the PIP shit aside and verbally discussing going independent contractor. Like 'Look, we're in a somewhat seasonal business and looks like what you're trying to do is to match labor supply to demand. You've outsourced IT and now the finance department is being outsourced. You say I have a place here and I appreciate that, but my financial requirements are quite flexible and an independent contractor situation might work best for both parties."

They already did this for the dude who trained me. He wasn't a "team player" and shit either. I recently got his cell. He's currently fucking up my setup a bit by pumping out tons of work but he still can't keep up alone. And he works really sporadically. He lives in Slavland now and has some business shit going on there. I'm thinking maybe I should text him and ask for a call and ask how he did it. Thoughts? Hopes & prayers also accepted

Edit: Thinking more on this... I'm not sure they want more than one independent contractor who knows my job. They probably think that between him and India, they're set and way more flexible than with a W-2 staff. Even if they go for it, they might just never give me work and keep me on the back burner. And now I don't get unemployment. This might also not be ideal for court. I'll ask my lawyer on our call next week. But floating the possibility, at this point, I don't see how it could be detrimental. Am I wrong? Dude's making more than I am as well obviously and idgaf about these benefits.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 17, 2017

Update: Things are worse than ever for the company. The President/CEO of the parent company of my company is up the CFO's ass and looks like Gymbro's exit interview is going to get my boss fired. Goldie is chillin' like a villain.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Jul 17, 2017

hahahahahahahha yes!

    • 1
Jul 17, 2017

hahaha this is great! Plot twist you end up as the intrim-boss until they find a replacement

    • 2
Jul 17, 2017

haha that would be so fucked

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 17, 2017

Wow if that happens it might be the worst month of his life.

    • 1
Jul 17, 2017

He's a divorced South African Jew so who knows

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 17, 2017

Incredible

    • 1
Jul 18, 2017

We're having issues with government files because neither myself nor India have clearance and they haven't even offered to get me clearance. A few other people at the company have gone through the process. I wonder if they know about my felonies. Or if it's an expensive process and they've always suspected I wouldn't stick around... If they know, I wonder if I could find out for sure and extort somehow...

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 18, 2017

<>

    • 1
Jul 18, 2017

Oh yeah, they'll find it immediately. Back when I was going to join the military, the job I was going for needed TS clearance and I had a misdemeanor DWI for pot from when I was 16 at the time and I have several long ass interviews, had to get documents on documents, my birth certificates from Ukraine, they were asking about my uncle's business dealings who I haven't even talked to in forever. Yeah, it's a hard no if they ask for that lol

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 18, 2017

Does anyone else think OP is making this shit up? This is just getting too far out there

    • 2
Jul 18, 2017

Update: DMB is back from Israel and is getting knee surgery Friday and will be out for another week. He's fucking fucked. I just talked to him on the phone and he said he came back to 300 emails. That's a weak amount to be honest. He doesn't even know the CFO scrapped their whole made-up re-org chart while he was out yet.We have a team meeting with the CFO in 2 hours and then DMB scheduled a 1v1 with me after that. On the phone, he said he saw my emails and wants to address my concerns about India and is saying that India will be handling the transactional part of our business and my job will become client-facing. Bullshit. I don't have dick to say. Hoping they fire me soon and I don't have to wait 'til I'm off probation to quit. I've made some pretty rapid strides in the property management arm of my real estate hustle and might be starting a proper business soon. Doing research currently. Not even sure I want to leave for another job. Between my own rentals, property management, my online business, wife's salary, and working as a broker... I kind of want to say fuck it. I need to be doing something where I can use all of my assets, not some corporate beaten bath hogus bologus.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 3
Jul 18, 2017

It's good to vent, but take the easy money while it's on offer. You can always tell them everything on your mind (and CC the CEO/CFO) if they fire you.

    • 2
Jul 18, 2017

I may have worded that poorly. I don't have dick to say as in I'm going to smile and nod at this point, watch this castle crumble, and document any of their slip-ups. Hoping they fire me so I can take unemployment and go do my own shit. I'd walk outside this bitch and roll around in a puddle like a carefree puppy.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 18, 2017

If things are unraveling that unpredictably, make sure your shit is on point. If they let your boss go, they may look down the org chart and offer you up as the next sacrifice. Keep pushing the side hustles.

    • 1
Jul 18, 2017

Oh the side hustles have been the main hustles for a year lol. I'm so fucking stoked for the future.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 18, 2017

LOL knee surgery! This just keeps getting better.

    • 3
Jul 18, 2017

We've known about it for a while but apparently, it's either now or in 3 months. The timing of all this is just too good though. This "your job is going to be client-facing now" crap is just that, but the lady who is actually our client-facing intermediary person who's been here for 9 years is leaving for 2 weeks starting tomorrow. So we'll see how that factors in as well.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 18, 2017

I forgot to ask, why do you think Gymbro's exit interview is going to get your boss axed? Did he genuinely fuck up by mis-managing all of this India stuff, are the higher-ups just looking to throw someone under the bus, or something else?

Jul 18, 2017

CFO was planning on having 1 on 1s with everyone, but only had one with the only person left physically working in my department, the girl who does the other half of my team's shit and who is also looking for another job. She said he was pretty frank with her and said Gymbro's exit interview pissed off the parent company president/CEO. I also talk to Gymbro every couple of days. It's all true. My boss is a nice guy but a terrible manager and he doesn't even understand our jobs at all. They cut OT and then did something that totally removed personal responsibility but technically increased efficiency, so we were both free to do way less work and nobody could call us out on it. He got rid of dividing work up to our personal inboxes and had us all just work out of the team inbox. Nobody fucking went in there ever again. The fuck did he expect. We all hate this company and our jobs. It's so obvious. He's oblivious.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 18, 2017

The team meeting was nonsense. CFO talked in circles. Then my boss called me and reassured me I'll always have a place here for 20 minutes. Then he said that he's not technically allowed to work on FMLA but I can contact him "off the clock" if I wanted to. I think dude might be telling me we can be real next week. I don't really even have anything to say anymore though. Part of me wants them to just fire me. Part of me thinks I should do the conservative thing and stay 'til I'm off probation. There's some disconnect. Boss is friendlier than ever to me and so is the CFO. The CEO and HR won't make eye contact with me anymore though and both used to be real friendly. CFO is coming over in the morning making jokes, asking how I ride my bike in the hear harharhar and similar bullshit. Fat fuck hunts from a treestand.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 18, 2017

Your gut is right. Make sure you have a seat on the lifeboat and that you're not stuck in the water with Leo.

Jul 18, 2017

Hey sorry but can you translate that for me? I'm not familiar with the analogy. Are you saying to speak with him off the clock or no?

At this point, I'm not sure how I should be doing my job. I sort of want to get fired. I could start working so slowly it becomes an issue. I'm just maintaining and being as unhelpful as possible currently while trying to maintain the opposite appearance. I figure they can only fire me for gross negligence or failing to improve on the PIP at this point, right? So I could just make no errors but work slow as fuck. Fire me and I get unemployment and appeal if they don't want to give it.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 18, 2017

when your boss or someone in hr gets real friendly with you out of nowhere is a sign either you're on your way out or they're in hot water from higher above

    • 2
Jul 18, 2017

I think your biggest issue is you're in the wrong role. With your natural sympathy and empathy for your boss "Dead Mom Boss" you would likely be an excellent fit for HR Manager.

    • 3
Jul 20, 2017

Am I the only person reading this and nodding my head with what the CFO is saying. OP- you have a 0% chance of severance, a possible chance to change your attitude and do your job. Maybe there is some nuance that is not coming through on the posts but here's my read.
1) you screwed up with the arrest- they know and are letting you stay on
2) you screwed up by not performing your job to your company's satisfaction and they put you on a PIP to improve
3) you email work things to your home email- so so wrong
4) your boss accidentally forwarded your pip to a contractor- not good
5) you somehow think that you are a likely candidate for severance- you're not. You are not important enough. We give severance when corp. reorganization inevitably cuts our numbers and otherwise good colleagues are let go.
6) you think emailing demands to your CFO is appropriate- it's not. You just look combative. A PIP can be taken to heart and you can change- or you can take it as a personal offense- go on the offensive- and get fired.

Go ahead and throw the MS. But here are the facts: I've worked for a long time, I've been on a PIP, I've been a manager and had to put some otherwise good people on PIPs, I've had a very successful career with lots of promotions. I'm giving you the tough truth. I have to assume these others who are goading you on really are early career individuals who have no clue due to lack of experience. Your choices are really: fix it and do a good job or quit.

Jul 19, 2017

While I don't necessarily disagree with your points generically, the reality is that corporate politics plays a HUGE role in why incompetent people are promoted and good employees get placed on PIPs and may eventually get fired. I saw this at my last company where it promoted "preferred" individuals and put other good employees "on notice" as a pretense for eliminating them and bringing in more of their "preferred" people (one of the people they ran off I kept in touch with--he went to another bank and is wildly excelling). I think Goldencinderblock's point is that his performance and how he is treated by management are independent of one another because managers are just people--they have preferred personalities that they'd rather work and engage with, and that does impact one's career at a certain place. It's also de-motivating as a good employee to be treated like a 2nd class citizen, and that negatively impacts work product.

Jul 19, 2017

You do bring up some good points and I generally agree with them. But I don't think some of the tactics/point of views discussed here are appropriate or helpful.

Jul 19, 2017

How would they know about the arrest?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 21, 2017

I agree with this so much. I am completely shocked op has even kept his job still... Like my goodness, what does it take to get fired at his company?

Jul 21, 2017

Thanks. +SB for being reasonable.

Jul 19, 2017

I just walked out of a meeting to post this. The president/CEO of the parent company spent the first 15 minutes reassuring everyone the current high turnover isn't an issue and blamed the economy and bad hired. I had an idea: My company reimburses up to $900/year in education expenses. I took the opportunity to get my broker license 6 months ago. I got reimbursed for most of it, but haven't submitted reimbursement for the final exam yet because you have to show proof you passed and my proof of passing letter has a caveat: "Have you ever been convicted of a felony: YES". There's an appeal process you go through and it's fine for me, but my point is I haven't submitted that yet.

What if I do submit it? Corporate accounting will see it and probably bring it up to management. I'll tell management I'm just following company policy and that they've already conducted a background check on me and I do not authorize another one. We have government clients who would not be thrilled a felon's been working on their shit... Thoughts?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 19, 2017

Dafuq? @GoldenCinderblock Stop trying to get fired! Don't get fired until your felony clears. I don't think they know @SkiMBA At least not officially. But I agree that he should fall back and stop stirring shit and be a good performer for a few months.

    • 3
Jul 19, 2017

+SB for finally some f'n sanity. Lately this crazy stuff is making me believe I'm too old (read:wise) for WSO. Seriously- no joke.

Jul 19, 2017

I think you may be right and I may be getting ahead of myself. I just feel stimulated for the first time here and I got excited. I love a good scheme. I have a crazy risk tolerance and I'm very impulsive, so I have to recognize this in myself and reel it in sometimes. My wanting to get fired comes from the fact that a. I hate it here b. I can replace this income from my online business c. I want unemployment d. I want to see them get fucked how they've fucked me for 3 years.
I need to relax though and do the conservative thing. Wait it out. I only have 2 months tops left. I'm just going to pretend like I have mouths to feed and shit.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Jul 19, 2017

My boss just called me to touch base on the PIP. He said he's been getting good feedback from people and that he's glad to see me slow down my pace and focus on accuracy. I'm doing like appalling little productive work. Go figure. I have learned though that if someone asks for something you don't want to help them with, if you respond with long-winded nonsense that makes it sound like you care but actually offer nothing constructive and maybe provide a few links, they act as though you helped them...

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Jul 20, 2017

Sounds like you should just stay in a holding pattern. It's not like you're going to get employee of the year either way, but at least you could wait out your felony clearing.

I certainly wouldn't stay there longer than necessary since you're obviously unhappy. Life's too short. I've recently moved to another city and industry because I was in a toxic shit hole. I was driven to clinical depression and it's very liberating not to have that stressor any more.

With that being said, I hope if you do go to another employer instead of hanging your own shingle that you put in more effort. Things in life are worth doing well, and you generally will achieve the best result by going the extra mile.

    • 2
Jul 21, 2017

Yeah, I agree and see what you're saying. Current game plan is just to stick it out for a few more months 'til I'm fully off probation and felony clears, milk some OT, then quit. It's too late here. There's no redemption for me. I plan on going all-in on my entrepreneurial shit and if that fails, which I doubt it will, I'll be employable again. And if I ever work another job, I will be giving it my all because I'm confident I will excel at anything I apply myself at. Except for like drawing and a bunch of other shit I have no talent for...

Can you tell me please how it felt and feels to be free of that? How long were you there? Can you elaborate, if you don't mind, on what your situation was like?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 21, 2017
Big4please:

It's not like you're going to get employee of the year

I don't know, I think he has a pretty good shot

    • 2
Jul 20, 2017

If this is a troll post, you should write a book. This has been so entertaining to read.

    • 1
Jul 20, 2017

Don't think you know what trolling is

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 21, 2017

Was just denied my bonus because I'm on a PIP. They sent me an email breaking down what it would have been and shit. I forgot we even got bonuses. Hope they've backed up all their shit somewhere. Now Goldie's even more upset. And Goldie is an incredibly vengeful person.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 3
Jul 21, 2017

What was the target % if you don't mind my asking? Was the PIP just another way to reduce costs (through bonus denial)

Edit: Vengeance is dish best serve cold.

Jul 21, 2017

Well it's a double win for them, I guess. No UE or bonus.
Bonus would have come to 13%. What I'm gonna do is make it up clocking in from home again and wipe as much data as I can before I quit. Fuck these cunts.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 21, 2017

CFO replies: "Goldie, I have discussed the INDIA this week and the plan to use them to relieve the pressures. Therefore, your statement is not correct that I did not address.
In addition , I have discussed your PIP with you and stated we will not remove this. Again, your statement is not correct.

Please come see me Monday should you want to discuss."

I reply:

"INDIA is currently a burden and not helping us. There is no position open to replace Gymbro. Therefore, I fail to see how the PIP can be an accurate reflection of my improvement or lack thereof."

Dude if I quit now they might just offer me more money. I want to quit so bad. Fuck these people so much.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 21, 2017

CFO Replies: "Then let's go over your pip on Monday along with the other emails I have received from Co-Worker. Example attached. "
What he attached was an email where this chick is asking why I invoice this client and they got double-charged and shit. I replied with a detailed breakdown of how I followed my training to a T and my que to do X was because Y was in Z folder. I'm not the person who puts shit in that folder.
I reply to him:
"I explained in that email exactly why I invoiced how I invoiced per how I was trained. If you'd like to discuss, please set up a meeting with me."

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 21, 2017

I've spent 30 minutes reading this thread. Thank you for making me unproductive at work as well.

    • 5
Jul 22, 2017
DetRustCohle:

I've spent 30 minutes reading this thread. Thank you for making me unproductive at work as well.

GoldenCinderblock may be a villain at his workplace, but he's a hero to us at WSO. Three cheers for Golden!!

Jul 22, 2017

This thread has all the makings to be the prequel to Boiler Room. @GoldenCinderblock is the life of Seth Davis before he started running a casino out of his basement.

    • 1
Jul 23, 2017

Just went through the whole thread. Waiting for Goldie's update keeps me more in suspense than the upcoming episode of GoT, albeit a low bar but still quite a feat.

Guess this is the type of situation where "laughs best he who laughs last" is real.

Colourful TV, colourless Life.

    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

Finally got my criminal attorney to do some research for me and make time for a call. He said that given the rest of my situation, my employment status shouldn't make a difference in the outcome of my final court hearing in 8 weeks. I just need to not violate my final probation (1 week away), stay out of trouble, show up looking clean cut and shit, and when I walk out, the felony should be off my record. How he explained it, I was never technically convicted but the charge was in some "pending" status. I did have offers rescinded though because of it, so I know it shows up currently. And I don't know how much longer it will keep showing up after court. Bureaucracy and shit.

Not sure what my move now is. I guess the most conservative thing to do is stay at the job until I'm done with court. Although if I wanted to bargain, now would be the time. Does anyone know if you can still get unemployment as an independent contractor? What if I start just doing no work, force them to fire me, then hang my broker license somewhere else (independent contractor), and do my real estate thing while collecting UE...

Another way to get fired and potentially have a case against them is to submit for reimbursement for that last bit of my broker exam that I didn't submit for because it shows I had a felony. What are they going to do once they see that? Reimburse me? Fire me? I haven't authorized a second background check.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

Really wanna throw something at you rn! You know EXACTLY what to do!

    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

I legit don't. Submit for reimbursement route?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Jul 26, 2017

Had an hour-long meeting with the CFO this morning. He basically told me a. my PIP concerns are invalid because I should always be accurate regardless of workflow and then b. Talked about the big picture and how my role will change and he sees me doing different shit and blah blah. Sounds like he wants me to play company man for a while so whatever. I played like I was onboard. I'll keep it up a bit longer then bail.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Aug 9, 2017

Any updates?

Aug 9, 2017

Yes @Sil ! My thoughts exactly too- any updates?

Aug 9, 2017

Not sure what I'm going to do at that point yet. I need to research what exactly HR can tell a future employer. I'm not looking for another job when I quit, but I do want to keep the option open. If I get myself fired vs. quit, I want to know the repercussions. If there are none to getting fired, I'll just stop doing my job until they tell me to leave, then file for UE and fight their counter and hope for the best while putting all my energy in my entrepreneurial shit.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Aug 11, 2017

Well, my PIP is up today. I have successfully managed to avoid being convicted of even one mistake the entire time. A lot of people tried to push blame on me, but I defended myself valiantly against these lions, tigers, and hippos (mostly hippos). No mention of the PIP had been made to me by management. They are hiring a new person to be some middle manager between my boss and me (who is leaving) and the other girl (who is leaving). I guess hiring another person from their little boys club (it's a woman actually who used to work here years ago) was their solution to the shit we're in. We're getting slowly caught up on some fronts (I do have to do some work) and stagnating on others. Anyway, fuck 'em kindly, I'm contemplating next steps.

I had my last PO meeting which went fine. I have my last court date on 9/19. I don't really have to be employed for that but I probably will be. I do want to keep this job until a. my wife starts teaching again and is getting paid and b. my downstairs unit is leased out again. That puts me in a really financially secure position to make the next move. And we have like $20K in cash right now so it's no biggie, but I do want to be able to keep saving at least $1,500 a month for the next investment regardless of what I'm doing career-wise.

Things are looking good on the property management front. I'm managing 9 units currently and those just fell into my lap. A broker I know is saying he's about to pick up a couple multifamilies he wants me to manage, so that'll be probably another 8 units. I just need to go legit and start a company. There's a shortage of good property managers. I do it all myself for a bit and then start hiring people. Invest in real estate with the income. Do rehabs, rent and refi out.

Anyway, back to the job. I still am unclear what exactly HR can say when people call for a reference. I will not be looking for another W-2 job yet and hopefully ever, but I would like to keep the option open. If they can't say I was fired, I think the move is to get myself fired and try to collect unemployment while doing all my other shit. If they can say that, then I think I should wait until my property management company is 100% legit and then quit.

The other option is the independent contractor route I was talking about earlier. I would make more and work at my own hours from home. Realistically would probably only need to work for a fraction of the time I get paid for. Only realistic way I see myself getting this is when I quit. So what I think I should do is 1) Quit with a weeks' notice 2) See what they offer me to stay. Negotiate 3) If it works for me, take the contractor route. Do that on the side in my off time for extra dough. Prioritize my entrepreneurial shit. 4) If we can't strike a deal I like, say fuck you I'm out today and leave.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Aug 28, 2017

they put me on another pip LOL

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Aug 28, 2017

For what? this is kinda ridiculous you should leave asap if they put you on another PIP for doing nothing

Aug 28, 2017

They extended the old one for the same reasons. I typed up a response and not sure if I should even send it. I'm pretty over the whole situation:

"As the PIP states, DMB was unable to meet with me throughout the duration of the original PIP. Is this the reason that the PIP being extended or is it new issues that have come up after the conclusion of the original PIP? If so, wouldn't this be a new PIP and not an extension? Since DMB was not able to meet with me as was laid out in the original PIP, I would argue that the purpose of the PIP was not carried out. Meanwhile, the bonus I was supposed to receive during that period was withheld. I would argue wrongfully so since the terms of the original PIP were not upheld. Yet this new PIP is implying that they were. If this PIP is based off of new issues, I'd like an opportunity to look over and refute each one please."

Seems like they just want a way to avoid paying me my next bonus. I don't even understand their reasoning anymore. They for sure need me at this point. Meanwhile, they've hired a "Director of Finance" lady who worked here 3 years ago who is under DMB but oversees us (just 2 of us at this point and the other girl is in final rounds with other companies currently). No idea what their reasoning is. They have more managers than employees and they dick over the employees...

I did call that independent contractor dude on Friday and we had a nice little chat. He says he's pretty over doing even contractor shit for them and might be leaving soon. He said that he left on "good terms" and they called him when we were very behind two years ago asking if he wanted the contractor gig. I ran my ideas by him and he suggested just walking into CFO's office and saying I'm going to quit but let's strike a deal with the contractor shit. He suggested not asking for more money initially, but getting in writing that I do a trial period, say 30 days, at my current rate and then get a significant bump if they want to keep me. I'll be able to get paid a day's work for just a couple hours of work so that'd be nice.

I'm more and more leaning toward just walking out though and not even trying to salvage any of this shit. It's been 3 years and I'm so over it. Excited to see what I come up with and where I go once I have the time and energy this job is sapping back.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 1
Aug 28, 2017

Jesus haha. Still planning on doing the property management path?

Aug 28, 2017

Yeah, my wife's back at work now too, I have renters in my duplex, property management is going well, and I'm off probation in 2 weeks. So it's whatever at this point. I'm just waiting out the clock and milking overtime. My last paycheck had 30 hours OT. I queue up a bunch of emails, go home at 6, send the emails, and clock out remotely at like 9.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Aug 28, 2017
GoldenCinderBlock:

My last paycheck had 30 hours OT. I queue up a bunch of emails, go home at 6, send the emails, and clock out remotely at like 9.

So you've run naked through a corporate minefield, came out unscathed, ran the clock down to where you can peace out at any time, and on top of that you're ripping them off on OT? It takes some brass fucking balls to play your hand the way you did.

    • 3
Aug 28, 2017

This kept me entertained all afternoon!!! Props for sticking it out this long.

Do what you have to do to make it these last 3 weeks. Stick it out and scoop up as much of that OT money as you can!!! Then go out on your own terms. That'll make it even more satisfying.

Aug 29, 2017

So the reasons for the extension of the PIP were still "attention to detail" and "attendance". I was kind of in a "what the fuck ever" mode when they first presented it, but I sent an email later that day asking for specifics. My new boss (CarrotTop or CT hereon) and CFO had a meeting with me today in response to the email. The CFO is this big dude and has an intimidating presence and, probably unintentionally, tries to sort of strongarm people into shit with his presence and intimidating looks and shit. But I know these tricks and just don't allow it. So they had me reiterate my email and are basically talked circles around me and I wouldn't relent and said my requests are reasonable and I'd like detailed explanations of everything and a chance to refute their points. They reluctantly said they'd put it together and meet with me tomorrow. So looks like we're back to being confrontational for the remainder of my stay here. Oh well.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Aug 29, 2017

I'm thinking now I should have just shut up about it. I'll be gone before the PIP is up anyway and now CFO's gonna go dig through my time sheets trying to come up with examples. When I asked for one in the meeting, best he could say was, 'I sometimes see you clocked in in the morning and you're not at your desk.' I just said, "With all due respect, that's anecdotal."

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

Aug 29, 2017
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Aug 29, 2017
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heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

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Aug 30, 2017
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heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

    • 2
Sep 1, 2017
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heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

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Sep 7, 2017
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heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/

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