I know DB has been getting a lot of shit especially on this forum, but how bad is it really compared to other firms? Would you accept top or mid-tier MM firms over DB? For example where would DB place between MM firms like Jefferies, Guggenheim, Rothschild, Cowen etc.?
Not trying to start another discussion about firm rankings, but genuinely curious about DB's position these days.
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“Top tier MM” like Jeff, Houlihan over DB.
I would personally lean towards DB. In general, you usually want to view your career as pyramid (start broad then gradually specialize/find your niche). While DB has obviously taken some recent hits, there are still some high quality groups there. Higher quality training, larger mandates, and a larger network are great assets when starting out. I would recommend a bugle bracket firm almost always over one of the boutiques unless the boutique is truly top tier (i.e. Centerview, Evercore, Lazard, etc.).
Granted if you know you want to stay in banking, just go to the firm with the best culture/fit, but if you're still in college, you should leave your options as open as possible and a bulge bracket firm will facilitate that better 9/10.
DB hands down. Second poster above^. DB is still regarded as a world-class brand and will open doors for you that you may not even realize right now. Take it and don't listen to kids on this forum who bash DB because most likely, majority of the kids on here couldn't even get an offer from DB.
DAMN RIGHT!
DB takes the cake, but I do think Jefferies has done a lot over the last year to really position themselves as a very strong firm, grabbing a big chunk of the upper mid market.
Take the MM. No way DB, who is already struggling, will survive this crisis. Deal flow is drying up, no way DB can compete.
Also depends what you want to do. Are you more interested in capital markets and working in a team for a firm that is smaller, but ravishly moving forward? Or do you want to work for a firm that "used" to be good. I'd take the up & comer every time.
Also - groups for each? You can't just compare two firms. I would take Jefferies Healthcare over DB Consumer group anyday. Provider more information.
In response to your point that DB won't "survive," I think that is a bit pessimistic. Sewing's plan has been going well and cost cutting initiatives from what I've read are a bit ahead of schedule. Granted Covid-19 does throw a wrench in things but Capital Group, a highly reputable active manager, took about a 3% stake in DB earlier in the year and the German government, would almost certainly not let DB fail (although I believe German law dictates that government ownership can only occur in special situations but you get my point). Additionally, in regards to the IB arm of Deutsche, according to the DB's 2019 annual report, the vast majority of front office job cuts have already been made with the remainder coming from the middle and back office, particularly through increased technology adoption.
Sure, if I were a MD, DB may not be as attractive as it once was, but as an analyst/associate, the pedigree of the firm I would still say is higher than your typical MM. Your point about groups is fair (HL Rx, Jefferies HC, etc. are high quality), but, in broadstrokes, DB is still a cut above.
This is not to say Guggenheim, Cowen, or any of the above firms are low-quality, (I have several friends at each and are all smart people), but I am of the belief that the platform DB can provide a junior is a bit stronger (I work at a "mid-tier" Euro BB just FYI, roommate does work at DB however). Unfortunately, brandname really does matter when beginning your career as you don't have a track record to point to (There are plenty of smart kids from Penn State that are qualified to enter IB that will never get the same looks as a mediocre kid from Penn).
And while I usually don't like to bring up this argument because it's so forward-thinking/presumptuous, working at DB will give a you a strong leg up compared to MM firms or your average boutique for buyside recruiting. As a purely anecdotal example, friend at Guggenheim received no looks for Megafunds or large MM players while DB friend did (Both went to same school, similar resumes).
DB won't survive the crisis.... genius over here
DB won't survive the crisis... we gotta genius over here
DB won't survive the crisis... we got a real genius over here
It would seem to some that the once-renowned German bulge-bracket bank known as Deutsche Bank may or may not weather the economic storm that arrived with the Coronavirus Pandemic... it appears that we have an authentic, verified wunderkind in our presence hither
Currently work for BB and interned at top MM. I’d go with the MM over DB. Though any BB will give a broader scope and bigger mandates, for exits into HF/PE top MM will do better. Not shitting on DB, but you’ll close more quality M&A at a HL or Gugg which is generally be more attractive to MM PE. Also don’t go to DB, thinking the name will pull you in PE. If a shop doesn’t know Gugg/HL/Cowen, chances are you don’t want to work with them.
what was rerecruiting like? Was it difficulty? Can i PM?
Depends on the firm. Wouldn't call Guggenheim a MM. I'd say Guggenheim > Jefferies > DB > Rothschild > Cowen. I'd probably take Jefferies over DB, dependent on group. Definitely Guggenheim over DB. But DB over every other MM.
Don't mean to call you out but it looks like from your past posts you're still in college and haven't even started your internship yet? I am by no means an industry expert (About 1.5 years in) but have seen firsthand how DB folks operate (worked with them on a couple deals), how they are regarded on the street, and have multiple friends who work there give me honest opinions.
I get that when you're in college rankings and prestige mean everything because of every Type A person's inferiority complex, but your lack of experience, to be frank, makes your opinion pretty worthless.
That's pretty valid and I agree. However, it's pretty hard to analyze your posts and fact-check you when you post anonymously
Just a question about DB SA 2021 – on their application page, I'm just seeing NYC. Are the other locations open yet as well, or do you fill out the NYC app for all of them?
Obviously depends on the group, but if you want a crude ranking between those firms as they're generally seen on the street I'd say..
Does Roths RX group fall more in line with GUGG and that 1st tier or still below those?
I think that really depends on how interested/committed you are to RX, Roth RX is good but its no HL or PJT. if we're excluding RX, and groups, which already makes this advise pretty negligible, I'd say Jeff gugg and DB are better that Roth, especially in the US
Does anyone know if DB's LevFin does the modeling? I've heard mixed info
bump
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