Did I screw up by going into Sales and Trading post graduation??

I'm a senior in college who will be working on a sell-side Sales and Trading desk (FICC Derivatives). I understand this is a wonderful opportunity and I should be grateful. The only thing that is bothering me is the state of S&T. I've been hearing so many people saying I made a mistake by doing S&T as opposed to Investment Banking omegle xender (if not trying for buy-side trading). I've even heard that people are getting screwed with salary bumps when promoted and/or bonuses are stagnant (very low). What are your thoughts on the Sales and Trading industry? Do you think I should try to lateral?

 

They’ve been saying S&T will be automated and killed off for years. It’s completely different than IB as well so if you were debating between trading and IB you probably aren’t very passionate about trading in the first place. With the introduction of an entirely new asset class in the S&T space, it will continue to be exciting for years, especially if you’re on the crypto desks. If not, just don’t go into a delta one product and choose a desk that’s not automated - something complex 

 
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I had a lot of similar sentiments upon making the switch from back office to S&T. I should preface this by saying that I've only just transitioned, and only just found out my exact placement. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

I think there's still plenty of opportunity to carve out a niche in S&T. It's important to keep in mind that WSO is dominated by people pursuing IB as a career path, or looking to Finance as a stepping stone type career that follows a predetermined, "prestigious" path of IB -> PE -> Top MBA -> PE MF, or some variation of that. The reality is that our careers very rarely play out as we plan for them to, and 98% of people on this site won't follow that "ideal" path. So it's important to keep in mind that not only are you taking advice from people who pursue IB as a means to an end and justify their life choices by benchmarking against S&T (which offers a very different skillset and nurtures a very different mindset), but you're also taking advice from college students (and sometimes high schoolers) who, for the most part, have no idea what they're talking about.

As I made the switch from BO to S&T, I experienced the same anxiety. But as you go out and network with traders / structures / salespeople across S&T, especially at BBs that are benefiting from consolidation in the space, you'll learn there is no shortage of opportunities. My desk placement process had more desks looking for analysts than there were analysts available for placement. JPM (reportedly) just gave a bump in base to analysts in markets. I've talked to several VPs who enjoy what they do, make very good money (especially for someone in their late 20s / early 30s) and have little reason to doubt their job security. And in the event they lose their seat for whatever reason, there's a long line of opportunities awaiting young, ambitious and smart people with experience in S&T, whether it's at a competitor in a similar / aligned seat, in a more traditional sales role, in data analytics, at a startup in the crypto space, at an investment management firm, etc. The list goes on and on.

I think if you're going into S&T hoping to follow that "traditional, elite" career path that again, only 1-2% of people on WSO will actually follow, then you're likely to be disappointed. But if you go into S&T and think creatively and constructively about how to position yourself, you can carve out a good career for yourself. For example, making the switch I thought long and hard about where I'd like to position myself, and I settled on securitized products structuring given the level of analysis such a role requires, the skillset it builds, and the inability to automate such a position. I'd recommend applying a similar mindset to whatever you do, with the mindset of being open to whatever opportunities may arise from there. But again, even in more "vanilla" products that are at the forefront of automation (cash equities for example) there are plenty of opportunities to work on some interesting projects and the role has moreso evolved than been eliminated. And in any case, you're being compensated quite well for someone in your early / mid 20s "figuring it out".

But above all, what's most important is consistent across any industry, role, geography, etc. - work hard, have a good attitude, network and behave responsibly. Do these things, and gravitate towards the things that interest you, and I truly believe that the rest will figure itself out.

 

1. Work in S&T is way more interesting and creative. You get to leverage the entire S&T floor/s.

2. Way earlier client interaction. Actually owning a client relationship from 6mos in. Not happening in IBD.

3. Exit opp set is much broader even if not aligned to PE set most people here are into. Markets is too broad to categorize.

 

Agreed.

Rates trading -> economic consulting.

High Yield Credit research -> investment management.

Repo trading -> balance sheet management.

Commodities trading -> working at a supermajor. 

FX Trading -> treasury at any international company managing FX risk.

Sales -> Any Sales role.

Any markets role -> risk management at bank.

Things can really go anywhere, and none of the above are bad places to be, as long as you're good at your job and you like it.

 

people don't realize how broad it is because this forum focusses on IBD. it can be algo research for execution services, to trading for index rebalancing, to bank debt research, to market structure roles, etc. the exit ops can be literally anything

 

the S&T hate on the forum is unreal. lots of trolls / jaded midlevel people perpetuating some very exaggerated fear.

Obv s&t is different from a structured path like the whole IB->PE thing that this forum creams over - standard deviation of outcomes is much greater which means some do end up on the wrong side of the road but at the same time there is no shortage of rockstars. I concur with above posters that most of the automation/culling is done - desks are literally running so lean that its impossible to cut further. If anything last yr's job market was red hot. although getting screwed over the salary bumps does suck i'll give you that...

but tbh, if you're already doubting and looking to get out, might as well do that... it's not for everyone and that's okay

 

A lot of the hate is unwarranted and for my 2c (as someone many years in) the job is a hell of a lot more interesting than IBD for much better hours.

With regards to pay if you make money you’ll get paid very well (way ahead of IBD) and promoted faster if you don’t you won’t. The further you are from a P/L number the worse it is. Seven figures is not unrealistic from VP level but again you have to be good and you have to be a risk taker. Spot fx, cash equity’s and other such desks are a waste of time and not comparable to the likes of credit/rates/derivs (depending on shop).

Hiring market also pretty hot right now especially in the rates/credit part of FICC.

 

As an intern, you've had more exposure to what a career in S&T is like than the vast majority of people on this website that you're seeking validation from. Did you enjoy the work? Your peers? The lifestyle? Did you connect with a mentor and think "I would not absolutely hate myself if that's me in 10 years?" Look around the IBD forum where every other person is on the verge of a mental breakdown after 6 months on the job. Not to say that S&T doesn't have its own issues but I find the discourse on this website far too focused on the perceived status and outlook of a position/firm/industry than people's lived experiences on their jobs. 

 

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