How do atheists/agnostics live a happy life?
I want to start off by saying that I personally am not going to share my beliefs and am asking out of general curiosity. I am neutral on the topic and support people believing whatever they want to believe, this is more so for gain of different perspective/viewpoint of life.
So.. the title says it all.
You live a life. Along the way you build relationships, fall in love, feel pain, anger, deceit, happiness, joy, excitement, anxiety, etc. We live our lives with goals and we connect with other people. Only for it all to crumble down and one day turn to darkness. I believe that most people pass by most of their lives not thinking about death and what happens after; leaving it in the back of their mind.
For those whom believe that once we die we cease to exist; how do you live like that? I recently have been thinking about death and the fact that who I am and everything I know and feel will simply cease to exist, for eternity. It's a terrible feeling and I find myself randomly thinking about it again and again, what if there is nothing beyond death? How can you live with that? Do you not get hit with overwhelming feelings of anxiety and terror?
Ultimately, I would just like to hear what some of you guys might have to say about the topic. How do you cope with what you believe to be what happens upon death? I personally am very logical and prefer to use reasoning/actual facts to make choices. Therefore, it is hard for me to commit to any type of faith. The thought of being gone for eternity and simply ceasing to exist has been terrifying me lately.
I promise I'm not going crazy. It's just a thought that has been popping up repeatedly in my mind and makes me feel uneasy.
There are plenty of videos of prominent atheists discussing this matter. They all say the same thing:
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This video is the only one that I remember that directly addresses this question. Everyone else -- other prominent atheists -- has discussed it during conferences/talks, the videos of which span hours in duration.
If really want to search through these talks to find more discussions on this, watch youtube videos of talks by Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Christopher Hitchens, and others.
WallStreetOasis.com Youtube links don't seem to be working (unless I put some text after it, as done above)?
Interesting to watch but a lot of it just sounds like things to say to put off the actual part of death. Yes his legacy and what he does on earth is great but he never addressed welcoming death itself. Just what to make of life. I will agree though and he has a great point
I posted a few more videos in another post below. Some of them also touch on this topic. Overall, there are many videos of atheists talking about this, but it is usually part of a larger discussion/talk that spans hours in duration, so it is difficult for me to locate them and direct you to them.
Thinknof how incredibly lucky you were to be born into existence to begin with. Make the most of it.
This argument is a common one made by atheists who are also scientists. If you get a scientist to explain this within the context of science (our universe) and outlining the mathematics behind the probabilities, it truly becomes a spiritual moment.
Happiness depends upon individuals no matter who so ever they are. If one decides to be happy then he/she will make things work in such a way that it brings happiness to them.
delete
Well, if I believed in said things I would probably just have comfort in knowing that my existence will continue on. You're right, knowing that we have only a finite amount of time definitely is why we should be motivated to make the most of our lives.
Indeed. I am not convinced that, if we/I had the potential for biological immortality, then it would be worth it. As Tyson stated in the above video, biological immortality, even if could one day have it, is not necessarily something one should want for themselves. But we already have the potential for immortality -- just not in the biological sense.
I think it's important not to bucket Atheism and Agnosticism in the same category. Agnosticism, to me, is believing "Hey, look at all this cool **** in the universe. Something had to have started it. I don't know what/who. And that's okay. I don't know exactly what happens when I die. And that's okay." It's all about just accepting the facts you are given. No one knows 100% what happens (no priest, guru, etc.). The only thing you can control is how you live your life and as others have said make the most of every day.
Agnostics are people who just don't care.
That would be nihilists.
We're probably living in a simulation. I draw happiness from what I observe to be reality. You draw happiness from the promise of some shit written on animal skins in Aramaic (a dead language) that they had to piece together by genetically testing the hides it was written on and doing their best interpreting the language nobody speaks. And then Pope Constantine, who converted on his deathbed, re-wrote it to control the populace more easily. So idk man you tell me
Quoting because truth.
OP seriously? Get a grip would you?
I never said I believe in anything, lol. DO you ever have anything constructive/positive to say?
You do know that Aramaic, a dead language like Latin, can still be interpreted, right?
The same text that you're talking about, was reviewed by linguists/historians/etc that did/did not believe in the words of the Bible and yet they translated it to almost exactly the same words as as the Bible. So over two thousand years, through wars, famines, sickness, scandal, and catastrophic natural events, the same message rings loud and clear as it was written so long ago.
Explain this. People who believe in the simulation, by virtue, don't believe in abstract concepts like happiness. As I understand it, there's no moral law that must be followed, just rationale that governs choice.
I don't believe or not believe in it. I do think it's a lot more likely than what any religion describes.
So much truth. Emperor Constantine, a non-Christian emperor, sat down with the Roman council at Nicaea and decided the rules of Christianity, then a growing religion. The rules of Islam were twisted by the Umayyad Caliphate, which was pro-Sunni, and created the Shia-Sunni strife under the rule of Yazid II. The rules of Judaism were written by a bunch of rabbis competing for scholarly power. The rules of Hinduism were written many millennia ago, thanks to a power-sharing arrangement between the ruling class and their advisors. The rules of different types of Buddhism were rewritten as per local cultural norms. Hence you see Confucian and Taoist Buddhism in China and Vietnam, Theravada Buddhism in Thailand, and Shinto Buddhism in Japan. The only original religion is the one of fact and studied assumption, with an open-minded approach to everything, called science.
I don't need the validation of a non-existent sky god to make meaning in my life.
Agreed, however, how do you feel about welcoming death? Your conscious disappearing?
How do you find meaning and purpose when nature made you Canadian?
This was all that was needed.
We are literally as certain that there is no "God" as we are that Santa Claus, the flying spaghetti monster, dragons, and witches and wizards don't exist. We are literally as certain that none of the worshipped individuals throughout history are "prophets" as we are that I am a wizard, you are God, or DickFuld is a real-life Gandalf from Lord of the Rings.
Religion has promised many things throughout history, yet it has never -- not once -- succeeded in delivering. On the other hand, reason and science have consistently delivered only what religion could dream (and lie) about delivering. Will it be science or religion that eventually delivers immortality? The evidence throughout human history speaks for itself.
In the year 2017, a belief in religion or "God" is a sign of deficiency: deficiency in basic understanding about reality, a social deficiency that attracts one to the community offered by religion, or a deficiency in the ability to think/reason rationally, honestly, and logically.
Science has discovered and continues to discover what is real. And reality has proven itself to be far more beautiful and spiritually magical (metaphorically speaking) than anything human beings have been able to conjure (religion). Concepts such as turning water to wine, flying through the moon on a flying donkey, or a burning bush are exactly the type of fictional nonsense you would expect humans to conjure. Not only are these stories fictional lies, but they are not interesting and/or spiritual from a "magical/amazement" point of view either; they are exactly the type of stories you'd expect to hear of if humans were the ones that were creating them rather than some magical being.
Reality is far more strange and beautiful than anything humans could have ever imagined or conjured. Quantum theory is the best tested theory in all of science and, therefore, makes the most accurate predictions in all of science. And the behaviour of quantum mechanics, as well as the content of other theories of science, are far more "magical", spiritual, and beautiful than anything humans could have possibly conjured up -- and it's real! (Black holes anyone?) We -- human beings -- and all of the life we see are literally made-up of star dust -- that is a scientific fact. Stars went supernova and exploded in order to allow us to exist, and the atoms that make-up your right hand are probabilistically from a different star than those that make-up your left hand.
Of course, you can choose to continue believing the mythology of a burning bush, but that is your choice and your life that you will be wasting.
But just because religion is false and there is no God doesn't mean that our lives don't have purpose; in fact, reality has provided us with a far superior existence to any of those offered by religious texts. We create our own purpose and meaning in life. We are not perpetually monitored and judged by some omnipotent and ruthless wizard in the sky. If the depiction of God by any of history's major religions is any indication of the nature of such a being, we should all be glad that such a being does not exist.
Indeed, this may not be comforting, but the universe does not care about your feelings. If you're one of these people, then it's time to grow up and put on your big-boy pants.
Your life is incredibly precious. And the fact that religion is false and there is no God doesn't degrade our existence -- it only makes it even more precious; it makes it infinitely more important for us to live fulfilling and productive lives.
What will it be like when you die? This is an easy question to answer: What was it like before you were born? Indeed, science has shown us that there is nothing to fear from death; after all, is there anything to fear for those who are, metaphorically speaking, not yet born? This is a question that has a logical and known answer. Instead, science implicitly implies a related and infinitely more important assertion: What we should fear is not death itself, but not living a successful life; after all, that's all we have.
And although there is nothing for us as individuals after death, science has proven (thanks to Einstein's discovery of general relativity) that the past is permanent. General relativity has shown that the past will always be -- it is eternal. Your life (you) will always be there, imprinted on the dimension of time (the literal physical dimension of time). This is in addition to, and goes beyond, your contribution to humanity alone; even if the human species is extinct in a billion years time, your "imprint" on the dimension of time will be permanent. Didn't I say science is more beautiful and poetic than religion could ever be? And this is all REAL! That's what makes it so amazing and wondrous.
This, ladies and gentleman, is why it is so important to, at the very least, be scientifically literate. Not everyone has to be a scientist, but it is unacceptable that there are still people that deny basic facts reality. As I'm sure many of you are aware, there are people on this forum who literally deny evolution -- one of the most basic facts about the universe.
We provide our own meaning; we are not slaves to some disgusting, savage being; and each of us are incredibly precious -- we are literally stardust. Given what we know about reality and our existence, if we should strive for anything, it is to live a fulfilling life -- and we can only do that by always seeking truth: truth about ourselves and the universe in which we live (science, anyone?). We are part of the universe and the universe is literally a part of us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaWyNZxJqwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLmY4ktOIOI
@TNA" You may find this one particularly relevant, given today's global conflict:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSrL0BXsO40
EDIT: For those of you who prefer stories about a burning bush and possessed devil pigs in the Middle-East, I recommend this brief talk by Christopher Hitchens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzW0dpWlTdg
WallStreetOasis.com I would appreciate it if you could kindly imbed the youtube videos in this post.
Found the Fedora.
Is this supposed to be a derogatory phrase? I am not familiar with it.
x100 hahah. I was thinking ![http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/516/241/f93.png][http:…]
You clearly have a peg up your ass against religion. It sounds like you haven't taken a shit in days. I sincerely hope you're ok.
Science can take care of that.
You need more paragraph breaks and less use of the world "literally." You should also begin each paragraph with, "as a scientist..."
Also, hahahahaha
How do I live a happy life? I don't spend all of my fucking time worrying about what other people think of what I do and don't do. Religion to me is basically just a tool for people who feel shitty about their existence to make others feel shitty about their existence. The whole thing is a giant experiment in retardation, I would much rather enjoy an existence I know is real than nitpick my life and spend it worrying about and existence that has a mathematically slim possibility of being real.
Speaking scientifically, the question of God is not even possible, since the question itself is not well-defined. First, these people need to define their question precisely, which, given what we are talking about, will probably never happen. The entire concept is literal, verifiable nonsense from its conception.
It isn't a mathematical impossibility, however I treat it like everything else that has a mathematical possibility of .0000000001%. People ask me why I don't prepare for things like a zombies, super volcanoes or meteorite impacts the answer is simple the probability is so small and the effects so large that it doesn't matter if I prepare or not the outcome is almost guaranteed to be the same, so what is the point? Same goes for the whole afterlife thing, once I die I don't really give a fuck what happens to me be it I just rot in a hole in the ground, end up in some paradise or in some hell hole of a place. The odds that I just rot in the ground are almost 100% so I just don't worry about the other two possibility.
It's a matter of perspective. Religious people tend to see life as a continuum - your spirit lives on in the afterlife or you are reincarnated, usually with some form of reward system to keep you righteous and make the most of your life. As an atheist, I see life as a finite spectrum and I need to concentrate my deeds within it. The rewards emerge within the spectrum and are products of causality. Fearing death and the nothingness that follows is a great driver for being active, healthy and content.
As a fellow atheist and scientist, your post is nonsense. This is not a matter of "perspective" -- it is a matter of fact. Reality is the way it is, regardless of whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not. The universe has no obligation to "make us feel good". As certain as humans can be, and as precisely as we can define the concept of certainty, we know the answers to these question, and posts like yours are false and deceiving to imply otherwise. This is not a "50/50 argument", it is fact vs fiction. It is not intellectually honest to present topics such as this as a "50/50 debate" between equally respectable ideas -- it is not.
OP was inquiring about how atheists address the lack of an afterlife in an emotional context, not asking for evidence that disproves the existence of an afterlife. To this extent it is a matter of perspective. By entertaining the idea that belief in the afterlife is a matter of fact for others - even if I do not offer any merit to that claim - allows me to respond to OPs query with a personal reflection.
Plato's "The Allegory of the Cave" carves into reality as perspective. As for your closing remark, I don't know if you're referring to anything I said but I definitely did not make a claim to the contrary. "Making me feel good" is an endogenous effect that is a product of the causality of my actions.
Allegory of the cave:
You seem quite certain that the historicity of the Bible is completely inaccurate and are also content with fitting a supernatural being, in this case God, into a box that conforms to the natural while at the same time offering descriptions of the human existence as something beyond comprehension.
I would ask if you have ever in earnest attempted to historically disprove anything the Bible has claimed or made an attempt to study what the gospel actually is rather than interpret it at face value and simultaneously select fragments of it that aren't in context. Not trying to stir a pot on an anonymous online forum, but rather asking if you have put forth as much effort to disprove Christianity as you have to prove, and subsequently claim, that science is the only explanation?
Far more stoic and legalistic atheists have gone before you and examined/scrutinized the nature of the Bible and subsequently Christianity, to no successful end. I am not saying all became Christian, but that rather they were faced with a choice: to accept the facts or make the choice not to.
It is easy to point towards supernatural events taken out of context and label them as ridiculous, in your examples; miracles from both Old and New Testament scripture. I would say though that attempting to poke holes in the accuracy of Christianity is rooted in one thing, one event that all atheists and believers alike agree is the cornerstone of the Christian faith: the resurrection of Jesus.
If you really want to take down Christianity, which if we are being honest is the one faith system that you have taken aim at over others, then start there. I will even offer you a starting point for we can see in the New Testament that if this point is moot, we as Christians above all should be pitied.
"Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied." 1 Corinthians 15:12-19
"As a fellow atheist and scientist.." lmfao that's probably your best pickup line, does it work at Mascot conventions?
I've accepted reality, it's just difficult to be content w/ it at times. How do you feel (emotionally) regarding the eventual nothingness that is promised w/ death?
Nothingness is not promised; in fact, as I outlined in my previous post, the laws of physics dictate that the contrary is true. This is just one of many poetic and beautiful aspects of our universe -- of reality. I think much of this post can be answered by reading my longer post. If you have more questions after that, feel free to make another post.
First off, I'm not confident in your assumption that the average person doesn't think about death. I think most people think about death all the time; some just push down the thought more than others.
Religion aside, The Myth Of Sisyphus is what I thought of when reading your post. When you realize the absurdity of life, you aren't pushed to kill yourself; you're motivated to live life to the fullest.
That is what I meant, yes everyone thinks/has thought of death but I mean REALLY thinking about it. Most people will just skim the topic and avoid going into the depth of actually accepting death and the complete loss of who you are. Usually spewing something out like "I have faith and know I will go where I belong" OR "When I die I die, it will simply be nothing." Without knowing the true weight of the latter.
I do agree, when you truly can come to grips with the fact that who you are will one day completely cease to exist you can truly appreciate life and make the most of it, knowing it is all you have.
In my opinion, religion tries to give people a sense of purpose, it predefines what you need to do to achieve an end (which in itself is also predefined and usually some larger, far-reaching and infinite version of happiness/paradise/purity), in this way it tends to box you in and in a perverse way makes you long for your death to reap the aforementioned salvation.
For me the lack of a god(s) or a formal religion allows me to decide my own path, define my own happiness/paradise and allows for a fluidity of that concept over time. It is the focus on that path and its consequences, both good and bad, that I draw happiness from.
Most of today's major religions promote what they consider "moral" through coercion: You are blackmailed into living a virtuous life on the threat of eternal damnation and suffering beyond imagination. This is just one of the many deep flaws inherent in the aforementioned religions: If you're only doing it because you expect a reward (or lack of punishment) rather than because it is the virtuous thing to do as a human being, then are you really a moral human being?
Major organized religions are just socially acceptable cults. I believe in a creator of the universe but that's about it. We are all insignificant grains of sand on a beach and the fact humanity thinks we're "special" enough for the creator to give af about us is the height of arrogance.
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We don't have to worry about eternal suffering as a consequence of our cocaine habits
This explains DickFuld views on this matter.
If I was genuinely religious, I would dedicate my life to it. That's an infinite ROI. Be a mensch for 80ish years and spend eternity kicking it? Fuck yeah. I don't understand how religious people all aren't all aspiring holy people. I'm not athiest, just agnostic. I have some pretty far-off theories too. I think simulation theory is very probable. I also think there's a good chance this is all my personal simulation and you're all a program. I also (admittedly ignorantly) think evolution is a little too perfect. Everything clicks just a little too well. Maybe there is some higher power. I just don't think it's what any religion describes.
Think about it. If everybody's needs were met by technology/whatever, we had no war, no hunger, no conflict, travel was free and instant, we could live forever, and we got bored of exploring the world/universe, and we had perfect VR, wouldn't you design a game? What would that game look like? There would be a starting point. You would be dealt a hand and how you play it would determine your trajectory. There would be winners and losers. Actions would have consequences. It would be more difficult than our utopian world. Getting places and doing things would cost resources. Those resources could be invested and compounded or squandered. Delaying gratification would have rewards. Sound familiar?..
And what would make the game truly exciting? If you didn't know it was a game.
Over 99% of all species that have ever existed on Earth have gone extinct. The history of life on Earth is littered with evolutionary failures and dead-ends. What about this seems perfect to you? As you speculated, the reason evolution seems "a little too perfect" to you is due to a lack of understanding of evolution.
As to your ideas about us living in a simulation, these are well-motivated and interesting scientific questions, but -- and I want to stress this -- there is absolutely no evidence for it. At the moment, as I hope most people understand, it is just fun speculation.
OK man, I was with you for part of this until that statement above: 'over 99% of all species that have ever existed on Earth have gone extinct.' And then you called out above poster for 'lack of understanding of evolution.' Do you realize how hypocritical/ironic this is???????? Genuinely asking. Yes, there were many species that snuffed out due to environmental changes or catastrophic events (e.g., dinosaurs), but over 99% of all species that have ever existed on Earth have gone extinct because THEY EVOLVED INTO OTHER SPECIES.
I used to be a very devout Catholic. I went to Mass every day, abstained from meat every Friday, etc. I since became an agnostic atheist, and honestly, the end of life question has become much easier. No more having to worry about if this or that might land me in hell, no more having to make sure that I've gone to confession, no more having to judge other people and how they live their lives. Becoming an agnostic atheist has honestly been one of the best decisions I have ever made.
Plus, think about the Christian version of heaven (I say that because I am not familiar with what other religions teach). It sounds incredibly boring. Hell would be much more interesting.
I've chose not to go to church ever since I moved from my parent's house. I do not pretend to know everything and have no stronger beliefs than that the world is a big complex organism. The values taught in church are solid, IMO, but I think church organizations suck. I literally don't give a fuck about things like right or wrong in ones own spiritual beliefs. If you belief in something bigger than yourself, allowing you to govern as a functioning member of society, is the only thing I care about.
I think the biggest misconception of humanity is the belief / desire to be "happy".
For me, when I'm happy, I know I'm not pushing myself hard enough.
Strive for competence/efficacy, not some feminine feeling called happiness.
Just my 2 cents.
I am agnostic, but being atheist is pretty stupid. Sorry, but science cannot explain everything. Is there some god in a cloud? No. But something cannot come from nothing. You don't just have a big bang and poof, everything is there. In reality, something happened, possibly from another galaxy, that caused this.
You ever wait in line for an hour with no phone? Seems like forever. You sleep for 8 hours and it is a blink of an eye. Death is just like that. Either their is some type of soul or some mysticism, or you simply "sleep". Nothing more. People associate eternal sleep with say limbo or some other metaphorical thing. It is nothing like that.
I do not believe in any form of western god. There is no flood. Animals on an ark. Blood and wine. The Bible is a book written to guide morals, to find answers for unexplainable things and to form cohesion. Humans create gods and religion. If you look at all societies, different geographies, races, times, etc. They all form something similar. A god and religion to basically explain the unexplainable. Mayan's, Incan's, Greek and Roman gods, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Native Americans, etc. All contain a moral code, a form of spirituality, answers for things that were unknown back then, something to cause comfort in a time of need.
And think about this. Your relative is in the hospital and might die. You can site there and worry, or you can "do something" about it. So you pray. You site in a chapel, which is peaceful. There is a person there to talk with you (priest/pastor). There is a ritual (rosary/prayer/sayings). A comforting book that you've most likely experienced over the years, etc. So this eases your stress and worry, regardless of the outcome. It is why people believe in good luck, bad luck, jinx, whatever.
In conclusion, it is what makes us human. Religion can be beautiful (go into any Catholic church and you will see what beauty can be created by motivated humans), but taking it too seriously makes you suck. And the same with the autistic atheists in this thread who would go up to a dying woman and instead of holding her hand and saying a prayer, would explain that god is fake and science proves it.
You might be right, but you're an asshole.
My favorite answer by far on this thread. Thank you.
+SB!
Many aspects of your post seem highly emotional and, therefore, unreasonable. I do not want to end up in some combative discussion, so I will address only a few points.
On the point of agnosticism vs atheism, these are the exact same thing. Any difference between these two is a result of semantics and not substance. Is it possible that we are the product (or our universe is the product) of a higher-power? Of course! It is certainly possible that we are living in a simulation or that life on Earth was seeded by some alien species; but there is no evidence for such hypotheses. A logically-consistent and well-defined higher-power is certainly a possibility, and atheists do not disagree with this. But God, as defined by most religions (certainly all religions that I'm aware of), is not well-defined, not logically-consistent, and verifiably false. We are certain -- as certain as humans can be, and as insofar as the word "certain" still has meaning -- that there is no "God".
It is a physical fact that a universe can result from nothing. This is due to the affects of quantum fluctuations, which I'm not going to delve into on this forum. Does that mean our universe came into existence in such a way? Not necessarily. Does that mean this is the only way for a universe to come into existence? Not necessarily. But if our universe came into existence in some other way, and if, therefore, there are other ways for a universe to come into existence, then that is within the domain of science -- not religion.
Every discovery about ourselves and the universe has come from science -- not religion. Religion has never -- despite its millennia of attempts -- been able to explain anything about the universe; that has only happened through science. You claim that science cannot know everything, and people have always echoed this throughout the ages -- and they have always been proven wrong. In order to salvage their nonsensical beliefs, religious people throughout the years have done the only thing they can do -- continue perpetually moving the goal-posts.
You're right, humans do not know everything there is to know yet. But this is the same unreasonable argument that has been used against scientists for centuries. We do not know every single thing, but we know more today than we did yesterday; and we knew more yesterday than we did the day before; and so on. All of this is because of science. And we won't stop asking question, and each day we will know more than the last.
If you have a superior alternative to science, then we're all genuinely eagerly waiting to hear it. However, one thing that we can be certain of is that religion is no alternative to science.
Speaking strictly as a scientist, some of the comments you make show an obvious absence of knowledge about physics and cosmology. I suspect that you have some idea of what you want to say but, due to a lack of scientific knowledge, are forced to express it in a nonsensical way ("something happened, possibly from another galaxy, that caused this." ??????????). And herein lies the problem: If you don't even understand some of the most basic facts about our universe, then you are not in a position to dismiss science in favour of alternative hypotheses. There's nothing wrong with asking questions -- indeed, it should be encouraged --, but these questions need to be well-founded, which means that they have to be based on what we already know to be true. If you, @TNA", have alternative ideas about the origin of the universe, then you're in the domain of science and in the company of physicists that have rigorously explored the same question for centuries before you. As such, any question you ask needs to be based on what we already know to be true, lest it be incoherently false.
Unfortunately, what you've done in your post is make incoherent assertions that do not satisfy the above. There is absolutely no evidence that we are living in a simulation, but at least we can have a reasonable discussion about this, since it is a reasonable hypothesis that is built upon truths about the universe; this is science. But the assertions you've made in your post are nonsense and do not satisfy the criteria of reasonableness.
The hypothetical scenario of a person on their death-bed is another common question posed to atheists. Although, I must say, you've emotionally posed it as an attack against me (and other atheists), which I do not think has any place in a reasonable discussion.
Many prominent atheists have answered this question (perhaps you can find youtube videos), and I think we atheists would all give approximately the same answer. It is certainly a good question and one that I am sympathetic towards. Even so, is it moral to lie to someone on their death-bed for the sake of comforting them? I don't think it is. However, many people who pose this question pose it as if lying about an afterlife is the only way to comfort a dying person -- this is false. There are many ways of comforting someone on their death-bed, and it need not be through telling them lies. You can comfort them by emphasising how much they've done for humanity -- their children, family, friends, communities, colleagues, customers, country, and planet --, and that these people will all be able to go on and live more fulfilling lives because of them. You can comfort them by telling them that they'll always be remembered -- not just by you but by everyone -- for what they've done; that their place will always be cemented in the pages of history. You can reminisce with them about the greatest moments of their life and emphasise how profound they were. You can emphasise your appreciation for them in the most heart-felt way possible. You can emphasise the beauty and wonders -- both of nature and humanity -- that they've been able to witness throughout their lives; the things that were once thought of as impossibilities and have now turned to reality. And you can comfort them with the glorious and sheer infeasibility of their existence, and how privileged they were to have had the opportunity to live in the first place. I think this is far better than lying to them and having them spend their last moments thinking about whether they will go to heaven or experience eternal damnation.
Of course, not everyone will have lived a life worth living. I'm not referring to people who worked low-earning jobs for their entire lives, as some on this forum may assume, but those people who were destructive to humanity and contributed nothing. For these people, there is no comfort, nor should there be. The universe does not care about us and does not care about our feelings. It is up to you to contribute to humanity and to live a fulfilling life that you can be proud of -- a life that does not beg for comforting lies on your death-bed.
Personally, this is what I strive for everyday. I strive for this so that everyday, when I wake up or go to sleep, I know that If I die on my death-bed or in the middle of the street, or if I do not wake up again, then I will have contributed to humanity and experienced the beauty and wonders of the universe -- the same universe that, not only I am a part of, but is also a part of me.
And this is one reason why it is so important to be at least scientifically literate. Those who aren't scientifically literate are missing out on a huge part of what it means to be human -- to be alive -- and to be a part of the universe.
And it is certainly true that there are instances of religion doing good things and producing beauty -- I don't think it would be reasonable to argue otherwise; the gothic cathedrals would be one such example of something that I personally admire. But this is wholly independent of the truth and veracity of religion.
Bro, you're not a scientist. Aren't you still in undergraduate? Love how Chemistry 400 magically makes you an authority.
And you miss all the nuance and meaning behind my post. But I fully expected you would.
I don't really disagree with anything you've written I this thread. However, you've wasted several hours typing out responses that will not change the mind of anyone. If someone wants to believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster, who really cares as long as they don't do anything to you? It comes across as pretty douchey and something only a real young person would waste their time on.
Let's be honest, if someone doesn't "believe" in science, it's not like we're at risk of that person NOT making some breakthrough discovery if only they had listened to your rant about science on WSO.
There is no evidence that some higher power doesn't exist. The absence of evidence isn't evidence
This is a pointless debate
This has to be taking away from all of your sciencing. Go build a climate model, there are still people who disagree with you on the subject.
To me, being an Atheist is just as much of a belief system as Christianity, Hinduism, Islam or Judaism. It involves approaching your existence in a fundamental way based off of your perception of existence. Given this, I approach my life in the same way as every other person of faith: by maximizing my self interest. At the root of the Abrahamic and all other religions is self interest. Essentially, you are being good in exchange for a pleasurable reincarnation or afterlife. Since Atheists believe none exists, they maximize their self interest as well (just without consideration of an afterlife). That doesn't necessarily mean being hedonists and it doesn't necessarily mean nihilism. But it almost always means focusing on your vision for your life.
It's also convenient to ignore many contradictory passages in the bible, like stoning for instance or the various reasons you should stone or brutalize someone else. Or gruesomely bloody tales of slaughter and sexual enslavement. Or you could get tired of a group of people cherry picking what amounts to random lines out of the bible and out of context to justify their views and apply those "interpretations" to modern times. Or maybe you dislike the hypocrisy of it all, the hypocrisy of criticism for "sleeping in on Sundays" as if their religion grants them a pedastal to spit down from or the social hypocrisy of ignoring all those bloody and horrific tales and claim it's all about love...only to condemn women, minorities and the LGBT community. Afterall, it's what God would want them to do, right?
What kind of bullshit line of questioning are you getting at? How could anyone live a fulfilling life without making your choices? I don't know how I manage, it's so hard, maybe I'll try to sleep in longer on Sunday.
It's pretty simple. Everyone is going to die and there's nothing they can do about it (barring some new crazy invention by Musk) and I don't need to believe in a far fetched collection of moralistic fairy tales translated several times with zero evidence in order to enjoy my life. Stop worrying about death and just enjoy every day. If you get genuine enjoyment and happiness through contributing to a religion and living that lifestyle then go ahead, do what makes you happy. Different strokes for different folks etc.
To answer your question: The same way as everyone else.
Our existence is an absurd one, regardless of how you rationalize it. Some learn to cope through organized religion, some simply strip down religion to a single core assumption, others refuse to accept that 'the' answer cannot be known --> the former two work for a larger % of people, but there is a subset that just dislike the concept of faith altogether (me).
As a piece of advice OP, I'd heavily recommend you pursue the following course: 1) Have a knock-down, drag-out debate with yourself over what you believe happens after you die. If you've spent this much time thinking about it, you're not going to stop until you find a rationalization that allows you to feel like you've (at least temporarily) resolved the issue in your mind or have a full-blown existential crisis.
Note: By the way, I don't mean get high and debate with you friends or watch some wannabe philosopher on youtube - I mean write down the the logical assumptions you ascribe to and detail the preceding conclusions (apply deductive logic) the same way you would if you were thinking through a complex legal argument or other highly abstract logical discussion.
2) Once you've found an answer that works for you (whatever that is), carefully consider if your conclusions has any meaningful implications for how you live your life (hint: very unlikely the answer is yes). To the extent there, make the appropriate changes.
3) To the very best of your ability, try to never think about it again.
The good news is you should know exactly what to expect. You spent an eternity up until the time you were born in a state of nothingness. Why should we expect our existence post-death to be anything different than our existence pre-birth?
I am a spiritual person but I believe they are exactly the same. You need to get comfortable with the fact that nothing happens post-death. A period at the end of a sentence. The story of our lives, like a good novel should end with a period.
Holy shit these responses hahaha. Dude who cares at all. If religion helps you get through the day, more power to you. Policy-making to support religion is a different story
We are all models built with different assumptions and have unique input variables that develop over time. The complexity is vast and will not be understood for quirlte sometime, if ever. Until then, we will keep running the model.
My former supervisor, a devout (and outspoken) atheist recently was diagnosed with a terminal disease and has ~9 months to live. When we spoke, he (from his hospital bed) told me he considers his atheism one of his greatest comforts as he waits to die. The idea that he will pass into nothingness with no worries about what an afterlife entails is a positive for him, not a negative. In the meantime, he said, it brings much more importance to the relationships he has the time to continue nurturing in life.
I'm not a religious person. I don't really care one way or another, or have a definitive opinion, but I have a lot of problems with organized religion and don't spent any part of my day thinking about it. I suppose I'm agnostic, but even classifying myself as that seems too much effort compared to its importance to me.
Whether or not there is an afterlife and whether or not that afterlife is the Christian "heaven" doesn't impact my life a bit. Why would it? I'm going to try and work hard, be successful, and make a shit ton of money either way. I'm also going to try to help others, especially the less fortunate, be a good person, and value my relationships. I'll do this because I want to do it, not because someone bribes me or threatens me to on Sundays, and I'll do it regardless of the unknown outcome.
If God exists, and is truly omnipotent, I think he'll care about a lot more important things than my weekly attendance. Gandhi is quoted as saying "I like your Christ; I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." I will have a higher net positive impact on society than some evangelical fundamentalist, and if God exists, I think he'll appreciate that. If not, shit happens. If the afterlife exists in some non-Christian format, hopefully the same thinking applies. If we dissolve into some collective consciousness, hopefully mine will be a valuable contribution.
If there is no god and no afterlife, though, every trace of me won't vanish. My experiences will still have happened, my ancestors, whether in human or building form, will still live on, and I'm egotistical enough to believe that I will have left an impact that will at least last a generation or two. People will tell stories about how "grandpa used to waste his time on this monkey website" and whatnot and how grandpa taught them about cap rates and that knowledge will live on. Other than that, I'll be gone. It won't matter to me because I won't exist.
All of these thought exercises are good, and trust me, I love me some philosophy, but at the end of the day you can't get paralyzed by the theoretical. Life is going to happen, or not happen, regardless of what you believe. I choose to focus on that.
I grew up in a religious household and this used to terrify me w/e I even briefly considered that maybe it wasn't all true. Once I became an atheist (early teens) it almost immediately stopped mattering.
As some posters have implied above, there is no point worrying about it. When you are dead you wont miss being alive. If anything, try to make sure death is as brief and painless as possible.
As to living, embrace your humanity. This does not mean prioritizing only self - interest (as someone suggested above), but it does mean taking a somewhat humanistic/ hedonist approach to life. Certain things make us feel content as humans and it is logical to pursue those (note that contentment != good/high/overjoyed at any given time, but a sustained feeling of well-being). Pursue those and then die painlessly - should be all good.
None of us can know the circumstances of our demise before they arise, or whether there is something for us afterwards. We can only know, and be engaged in the present to the best of our abilities.
If you want comfort, learn that there are some things you can control, and some things which you cannot. While it is a natural human instinct to try to control all variables, you will be more at peace if you relinquish this need and focus on changing what you can change, and enjoying what you can enjoy.
When you ate dinner last night, did you wonder about whether the animal on your plate contemplated its existential meaning before it was harvested for your consumption?
Of course not, it's just an animal, right? Amusing how easily we avoid contemplation with the sole fiat of "It's just a chicken".
But the assumption there is partly right. The difference between animals and us, and by extension, the essence of the issue you're grappling with, was succinctly described by Jean-Paul Sartre:
“Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does. It is up to you to give life a meaning.”
A chicken doesn't wonder why it clucks, and a fish doesn't wonder why it swims. It is solely man's burden to wonder every waking minute, "why?"
Once you have discovered what meaning you intend to give your life, I think you will spend less time worrying about whether that life will have some existential significance afterwards. What matters is whether it has significance to you, now.
I believe my purpose (as well as each person's purpose) is to make other people's lives as good as possible. If I think about it that way, life doesn't seem meaningless. I do think when we die we just become nothing. But if we do our part to make other people's lives better, and those people are able to make some other people's lives better, than our impact is essentially immortal...
"This's the true horror of religion, that it allows perfectly sane and decent people, to believe by the billions, only what lunatics could believe on their own" Sam Harris
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