How to deal with competitive co-worker

Hi All

I'm posting from another industry and would like WSO to weigh in given the community's extensive experience in office politics. I am currently a medical student at a top 3 medical school with no "corporate america" work experience. I will be working in a lab next year with a fellow medical student who is very competitive and would like overall guidance in how to conduct myself. My concerns are as follows.

-We are both applying for the same fields
-Coworker/student would ask me sensitive questions that would require me to "hand over" information that gave me a competitive advantage
-IE I would initiate personal side projects with key leaders in the division. He would see me walk out of the office with said leader and try to inquire about my actions. These projects are my main competitive advantage b/c they provide me with facetime with influential individuals. This actually happened in the past 2 years ago where I told him what I was up to, only for him to replicate said idea (Fool me once, shame on me....)
-IE He inquired about who am I conducting research with. After telling him he ended up applying for the same lab that I did (perhaps this was chance but not so sure...)

Curious about how to "deflect" his nosey questions about topics that I simply don't want to talk about for concern that he will quite literally "take" my ideas. Also tried to collaborate with him in the past but he was not into a synergistic relationship...more so parasitic/competitive.

Thanks WSO!

WSO Elite Modeling Package

  • 6 courses to mastery: Excel, Financial Statement, LBO, M&A, Valuation and DCF
  • Elite instructors from top BB investment banks and private equity megafunds
  • Includes Company DB + Video Library Access (1 year)

Comments (21)

Sep 8, 2017 - 11:43am

What he's doing isn't illegal, unethical, or even worth taking action against. Just seems like a very competitive person.

Complaining to a higher authority wont do jack since it's not exactly wrong.

I'd go all out on not divulging information at all. It seems like everything you do, write on, talk to, this guy wants in . If his eyes can't see it, or you, or know who you're talking to then aren't you good.

But jeez, what a c0ck bl0cker. I hate c0ck bl0ckers.

Sep 8, 2017 - 12:42pm

Sounds like a typical top med school from what i've heard. But, you're smart, you've survived so far in this environment. I think you'll be fine.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Best Response
Sep 8, 2017 - 1:06pm

I love dealing with that type of person. Just keep drip feeding them false information,; this will result in one of two things: 1. They start to believe you and cock things up all by themselves or 2. They think you are stupid in which case they will underestimate you and you can silently crush them.

Simple

(alternatively, just tie then up and put them in an old storage room until you get the position)

Sep 8, 2017 - 1:14pm

Agreed. I would also recommend the use of "mirroring" when someone is grilling you. Take a key sentence or question in the conversation and repeat it back to them verbatim in a pleasant tone of voice. Let it hang in the air until they reply. This will usually cause them to give more information and go into greater depth. Keep mirroring (people can't help but talk) and you can get them to tip their hand without giving anything in return. Once you understand what they're after and how they're going to get it, you really run with the above poster's advice of feeding them BS.

Learn More

300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses.

Learn more
Sep 11, 2017 - 1:57am

Nice.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

See my Blog & AMA

  • 1
Sep 13, 2017 - 7:19pm

Beat me to it. This.

"Who am I? I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy."
Sep 9, 2017 - 2:53pm

First off - honestly, reading your post a few times, it strikes me that you might be part of the problem. I'll touch on that below.

Normally I give people the benefit of the doubt and you'll find that giving helpful advice when wanted is a good way to develop relationships and also gain useful perspective in returns.

A few notes that come to mind (all from our business perspective):
1. The 'project' comes first. Witholding information that's needed to advance your work, or that is important for them in order to conduct there work, is unacceptable and can come back to haunt you. If you're worried about them sending credit, a quite note (email or in person, whatever your dynamic is) at the end of the day outlining any accomplishments to your superior may be helpful. You can even just cc your colleague to let them know what's up rather than passing things on in person.
2. What you're doing to network or for side projects is none of their business unless you want it to be. Just don't bring it up, and if they ask what you were doing with some person or what you're doing on the side you don't have to tell them. Don't have to lie either. A simple "we were grabbing coffee" or something like that is fine.
3. Is it really a big deal that he applied to your lab and got a job? This person needs to eat too, and I don't see how this act in itself puts you at a disadvantage. I know you'd prefer not to work with them, but if I told my friend I was applying to a firm and they applied there too I'd simply wish them luck. You both got jobs. I'd get over this one.

Now - on you being part of the problem - it doesn't sound like this person has maliciously stolen work and presented it as their own or anything like that. Is this another young person trying to find out how things are done to be successful? Or do you think they're stealing from you? If it's the former and you see them as a rival - deal, and focus on doing your work well. Life's too short to fuck over someone else for a few dollars on your paycheck. If it is the latter, then focus on managing up and touching base with your superiors so that they can tell what work comes from you and doesn't come from your peer. If it turns into a bitchfest between the two of you, try to keep that out of sight of your superiors, they don't want to deal with it.

Sep 9, 2017 - 10:56pm
  1. Is there any reason or benefit for you for him to think highly of you? 2. Is he in the position or does he have the power to in any way inflict damage/pain on you? 3. Do you value his friendship or could you care less if he was in your life?

For Q. number 1: Back when I was in a shittier job and discreetly interviewing with prestigious firms, I wouldn't divulge information to my co workers or even tell them where I was going. I didn't have passion for what I was doing and literally tripled my salary once I left. I'm not ashamed to say it, but I straight up lied on my resume when I applied to job about what my responsibilities were. Before giving my two weeks notice, my coworkers didn't think too highly of me, and so eye brows were definitely raised and questions/rumors once I told them where I was heading for my next job. To avoid suspicion or any damage to me, I started to downplay what my new salary would be, or how fancy my new job actually was. Reason being, these people literally had zero positive things that they could offer me, and besides personal pride, there was no benefit for them to be impressed by where I was going. So once I lied about what type of work I would be doing, all suspicion was gone and those people stopped bothering me. I suggest you tell this person that you're doing less interesting stuff, as there's no benefit for him to be impressed by you, if he's your peer.

For Q.2, if he's not in a position of power over you, I personally would have no issues telling him to fuck off and to mind his own business. This happens all the time in finance.

  1. If you don't value his friendship, why are you even talking to him? Keep your mouth shut. I say this in a respectful way, as this is an anonymous forum and there's no reason to care for feelings as we're just giving advice, but you kind of sound like a pushover and a pussy. Why not just man up and tell him you don't want to talk about what you are doing? He's fucked you over before.
We're not lawyers. We're investment bankers. We didn't go to Harvard. We Went to Wharton!
  • 6
  • 2
Sep 11, 2017 - 3:11am

I had a co-worker like this, but instead of pushing him away I pulled him in so tight that I kept him in my cone of "Keyser" lies. Remember that old adage, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?" The closer this guy is to you, the more containable he is. You just have to get good at giving him the "mushroom treatment." (Being Biology guy you'll appreciate the reference).

"Feed him shit, and keep them in the dark."

You're always in a driver seat with people like this. Set your terms, feed him small useless bits of information (as referenced above), and watch his sails furl as he struggles to gain momentum. I also keep these guys close because "if they have a big mouth" they give great counter intelligence.

Good luck with the upcoming match Chess Master.

"A man can convince anyone he's somebody else, but never himself."
  • 5
Sep 12, 2017 - 10:57am

That happens in any environment that has smart driven people. The best thing you can do is rise above it and deliver on your projects. No one will care about his/her antics after you have delivered.

Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
Sep 12, 2017 - 1:17pm

Not sure why GridironCEO got monkey shit, that was some pretty solid advice.

Its obvious that the other guy thinks pretty highly of you. If not, he wouldn't be trying to figure out what you are doing so that he can do it too. Therein lies your opportunity: Shatter the illusion that you have it all figured out and that your path is worth following. I'll give some personal examples.

In college I was one of the few guys who had my shit together in class, not because I'm brilliant, but because at my tiny no-name school, I was one of the few who wanted a more than a tiny no-name job. People would want to study with me, which in principle I am ok with, but only if they pull their weight and aren't only there to leech off my notes.

SO, what I did is that when people tried to leech off me for an exam, I told them I hadn't started studying yet. I'd tell them that I was planning to pull an all nighter for it. I'd tell them I needed to study for [class we didn't have in common]'s exam. I'd say I was totally fucked for this exam. Anything I needed to say. And then when the exam came, I'd do alright. But I wouldn't say how alright I did. I would scale my grade back a couple degrees if anyone asked how I did. Why? It only hurts me if my classmates know I'm doing well. Again, I'm no genius. I graduated with a 3.5. I just wasn't trying to do all the work for everyone else.

Next example was my first rotation last year. I had a co-worker who was also fresh out of college, and it seemed like his only purpose in life was to try to outshine me. He would constantly try to figure out what I was working on so that he could try to learn about it too, faster and more in-depth than me. He'd stop by my cube pretty often to ask me random questions to gauge how much I knew and how well I was picking up the job. It was obvious he didn't actually need help, but was just trying to test me. If he learned I was knowledgeable on some subject, next thing I knew, a couple hours later he'd come by to casually work into the conversation some random facts (which he had learned in the last few hours) about the subject.

So I let him "win". If I sensed that he was just asking questions to test my knowledge, I would try to appear as ignorant as possible. I let him think he was crushing it at his job much more than I was. Eventually he lost the need to one-up me because he thought he was doing so much better.

One particular example: He had been asking me all year if I had started getting this certification that was not required for our position, but would be needed if we wanted bigger responsibilities. I said no (which was true). I said I would wait til May or June to do it. He started getting certified the previous fall, and then stopped once he had a comfortable lead on me and could proudly tell people that he had started. In early April I quietly plugged away and got certified. I remember at a staff meeting when our boss asked us if we were certified, and he immediately jumped in and said "Yeah I'm about half way through". And then I said "yep, I finished last week". Man, he lost his shit. He came by my cube a couple times that day to casually mention his excuses for why he wasn't done yet, and how the whole thing was bullshit anyway.

My point through these examples: This guy is only trying to leech off of you because he thinks you have it together and are worth leeching off of. Solve this perception, solve your problem.

Sep 16, 2017 - 12:44am

Start kissing asses and trying to get those summer investment banking internships early.

In all seriousness, if you're innovating and people know you're the first to come up with shit, who cares if he copies you? If he does it frankly makes you look more flattering and like a leader. Whereas he more resembles a sheeple. Now depending on the decision maker in charge this could be an advantage or disadvantage. Some people like being the alpha dog and don't want anyone challenging their seat at the top of the mountain, so they like yes men :).

Sep 16, 2017 - 12:45am

deal with difficult team member in IB (Originally Posted: 03/31/2014)

Hi,
I am a recent grad currently working in an investment bank. I want to ask something about how to effectively communicate with people.
When I normally communicate and discuss something with my team, it was a bit hard for me to get involved and contribute my ideas; sometimes I do find that my ideas in the first place came out to be the right idea that the team finally chose.
English is not my first language, but I do speak good English and I can communicate and express myself most of the time clearly, apart from some circumstances where the things I was trying to explain was too complicated and I ran out of my vocabulary and can't put myself into good structure.
To me it is not about understanding; I think it is about respect and how to raise people's attention to what you are going to say. I have been struggling to get people listen to me, which made me don't want to talk even more. This really stressed me out.
I really need your helps guys, I want to hear what you are going to say, when your team members tend to be:
 Focus on his own words and not pay smallest attention to what you say (even if don't understand you not even bothered to ask you to explain a bit more);
 Too aggressive and go ahead with his own idea which is proved wrong finally
 How to communicate effectively in the first place to grab people's attention.
I would really appreciate your help and I hope to hear you experiences regarding this kind of problem.
I am happy to provide more information, again Thank you very much guys.

By the way I am based in London.

Sep 16, 2017 - 12:46am

Quia cupiditate dicta officia beatae. Quos non dolorum sint impedit qui impedit.

Aperiam in et ut dolor inventore dolores voluptates. Necessitatibus dolores inventore et est voluptas dicta eaque.

Veniam ducimus numquam reprehenderit et dicta architecto. Dolore nostrum rerum error nam. Consequatur neque error earum aperiam aliquid.

Iusto eos eum vel ut tempore rerum similique. Minima qui quasi sed tempora cupiditate fugiat. Quam iusto esse reiciendis corporis eos et. Hic blanditiis expedita at eum beatae. Et nihil enim soluta animi rerum laborum consequatur quia.

Sep 16, 2017 - 12:47am

Esse a repellat laborum accusantium. Voluptatem odio in quis harum nihil. Harum unde nihil saepe sed temporibus.

Voluptas ut repellendus eos eligendi fugiat odit deserunt. Nihil rerum rerum qui quidem et. Possimus est quos non minima nobis ratione. Nihil amet voluptas autem ex. Enim aspernatur vitae pariatur. Et quasi ex quae accusantium quae ipsam error quo.

Gotta be damn good at it - Go Corp Dev.
Start Discussion

Total Avg Compensation

October 2021 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (10) $853
  • Vice President (39) $363
  • Associates (228) $232
  • 2nd Year Analyst (137) $154
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (30) $147
  • Intern/Summer Associate (103) $143
  • 1st Year Analyst (500) $135
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (386) $83