i-banking: MBA w/out prior finance experience

del_monte's picture
Rank: Monkey | banana points 32

I'm going to start b-school in sept. but I have no finance experience (e.g., analyst with an i-bank).

I'm guessing that the likelihood of getting an internship (in the summer before 2nd year) with an i-bank is quite low (assuming that I am competing with MBA students who've had analyst positions out of undergrad).

what can I do to make up for the lack of experience?

academics? ecs?

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Comments (47)

May 22, 2007

If you're going to a top 10 MBA program (Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, etc) then you won't have any problem. Otherwise you won't be going into Investment banking anyway, except at a backwater boutique.

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May 22, 2007
Hip2Status:

If you're going to a top 10 MBA program (Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, etc) then you won't have any problem. Otherwise you won't be going into Investment banking anyway, except at a backwater boutique.

you are a dumbshit. i know of 10 people at Rice MBA (ranked in the 40's) going into summer positions in the Houston office.

you might not get NYC< but you can get into an interesting market (Houston, San Fran, LA, etc.)

May 22, 2007

This really depends on what school you are going to.

May 22, 2007

but also you'll have no problem at Chicago/Columbia/Kellogg/Stern/Sloan/Tuck

and to a lesser extent, but still solid

Darden/Ross/Cornell/Haas

after that, it's much more difficult.

May 22, 2007

thanks for the replies so far...

I'm a canadian student -> rotman (JD/MBA - JD 1st year, MBA 2nd year)

I guess undergrad in math/stats/finance isn't really going to help is it?

May 22, 2007

Byran, try not to get emotional about a message board. IBankingOasis.com is about objective advice, not emotional outbursts. You are right, many middle market banks like SunTrust, etc will hire people from Rice for their Houston office.

FYI, the only business school in Canada afforded respect is the Ivey School of Business...

May 22, 2007
Hip2Status:

Byran, try not to get emotional about a message board. IBankingOasis.com is about objective advice, not emotional outbursts. You are right, many middle market banks like SunTrust, etc will hire people from Rice for their Houston office.

FYI, the only business school in Canada afforded respect is the Ivey School of Business...

not being emotional, just please don't throw out huge generalizations on this board. i am a big believer in qualification of one's advice. your advice how i interpreted it was "you won't have any luck anyway if you're not top 10"... when in fact, there are tons of routes to get a job as an investment banker. i think that as a whole people pigeon-hole themself into NYC analyst or NYC associate very much unnecessarily. anyway, apologies for being emotional, :) i'm on my man period i guess.

May 22, 2007

"FYI, the only business school in Canada afforded respect is the Ivey School of Business..."

look, I've been throught this crap before. I didn't come here to play a pissing contest (i.e., my schools's better than yours).

I just wanted to know what I have to do while in b-school to improve the odds of getting an associate position after b-school or an i-banking position while in b-school.

If anyone has any info on that, I'd appreciate if you'd share.

May 22, 2007

Del Monte

I have no control over a particular school's prestige. Its just a fact that at least in the US, the only Canadian business school that people respect is the Ivey School. What you can do to improve your chances is do research to find middle market Canadian i-banks that don't limit themselves to hiring from the top.

  • ....
  •  Jan 31, 2009

.

May 22, 2007

folks: lets drop this MBA ranking schtick, I think we are all a bit more mature than that.

Why am I doing the JD/MBA? Because I have no work experience and am betting that going this route will pay off more (in the long run) than if I had worked as an analyst in a consulting firm.

I don't really care for either profession, I just want the money. As much of it as possible.

So let me ask again: as a b-school student applying for summer positions at an i-bank, what do I need to be competitive? Are all associates at i-banks former analysts (that worked there before going for the MBA)?

May 22, 2007
del_monte:

Are all associates at i-banks former analysts (that worked there before going for the MBA)?

no

May 22, 2007
del_monte:

So let me ask again: as a b-school student applying for summer positions at an i-bank, what do I need to be competitive?

look at the banks websites, they usually have a good description of what qualifications they require.

Jan 31, 2009

You have an advantage with ib experience and an mba, but the overwhelming majority of applicants out of b-school are not former bankers. That's the whole point of going to b-school for a lot of people--to change careers. Most former bankers want to go into a buyside job.

Jan 31, 2009

Anymore insight?

Jan 31, 2009

You can do it. Make sure your grades are good, and that you attend all the events. Tons of people in my class (including me) made the transition successfully. If you can't get a good summer internship, try a boutique firm or a hedge fund, and then reapply your second year.

Jan 31, 2009

I am looking to make the switch post MBA. All that I can say is network, network, network.

Jan 31, 2009

Networking is key. Attend every event and remeber that each interaction with a banker is an interview so always bring your A-game. If you're not getting enuf help from your B-school, try your undergrad college - there's usually some good guys there that get bugged a whole lot less than the b-school alumni.

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May 22, 2007

at i-banks are former analysts....most analysts end up exiting ibanking after 2 years. They'll go to PE/HF, corp. development, something totally outside of finance, law school, etc. The only reason associates choose to do IBanking is b/c they can't get the "coveted" finance jobs since those always go to former analysts and banking is the only way to break into the industry.

BTW, if you join law firm or bank just for the money, you'll hate it and quit after a few years. There has to be passion in order to deal with the grueling hours.

Jan 31, 2009

Yes you would have a chance, however, with your accounting background I also think you'd have a good shot at analyst positions that come up throughout the year. If you're sure on IB down the road then it's something you might want to think about.

Jan 31, 2009

You'd have a chance at IBD after business school, though you'd have a much better chance at both a top MBA and a solid IBD position post MBA if you were able to lateral over to IBD sooner (pre-mba, at the analyst level)

Jan 31, 2009

I suggest thinking about trying to get into a transaction advisory arm of a big 4 or a local boutique as a lateral, or else looking for opportunities in another finance-related FO role, Asset Management or equity research or the like, just something to demonstrate a working background in finance.

Jan 31, 2009

I have been considering getting my masters in finance from Baruch part time while working, I know Baruch isnt one of the top msf programs but it is the most convenient since it is so close to my job. Would the 2 years working as an Audior plus the msf put in me in a good position for getting a job as analyst at an IB in NYC.

Jan 31, 2009

MSF = Another year of entry level recruiting, and that's about it

I think you're better off working your network hard to move into IB now

Jan 31, 2009

What is the difference in salary and bonus of an analyst vs an associate coming from an MBA program?

May 22, 2007

thanks.

if any Canadians here have gone into i-banking w/out prior finance experience, please post your experience/advice.

much thanks

Jan 31, 2009

i love kenny powers

in all seriousness best o f luck. what is the school u got your mba from?

Jan 31, 2009
shorttheworld:

i love kenny powers

in all seriousness best o f luck. what is the school u got your mba from?

The University of Tampa. It's AACSB accredited and is recognized as a good school in the southeast. But, I know people don't really care once you start trying to get into an industry that is dominated by Ivy League and comparable schools. I started my undergrad at the University of Rochester, a consistent top-40 ranked school. I think I'd garner a little bit more interest if I finished there, or even if I went back to get my MBA from there; I declined though to play pro baseball.

Jan 31, 2009

use the SHIT out of playing pro baseball. They love former athletes on the street.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jan 31, 2009
happypantsmcgee:

use the SHIT out of playing pro baseball. They love former athletes on the street.

I'm trying to play that up every way I can. My subject lines of emails start "Former professional athlete..." It's in my objective too. I know that is my "hook" and makes me unique, and everyone is always saying there are bankers and finance people out there that love athletes, I just need to find out how to find these people.

Jan 31, 2009

Barclays is former Lehman and they had a rep for being all about athletes so trying getting numbers for people at Barclays...at least its a place to start

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jan 31, 2009

Try and find people that played baseball in college or any other D1 sport and go that route to try and build rapport.

Jan 31, 2009

I would look into S&T, they love athletes/war stories.

Perhaps let us see your resume...i would suggest getting rid of the "objective".

Have you thought of just not mentioning the MBA? Frankly, just having an MBA doesn't carry much weight...you get one for the networking, access, etc. Just say you were playing baseball for the interim, you have great undergrad grades, a finance degree, etc....no reason you shouldnt be able to land an analyst gig. It's that mba holding you back. Your net is probably cast at a lot of places but going forward, I'd leave it off.

Jan 31, 2009
Cartwright:

I would look into S&T, they love athletes/war stories.

Perhaps let us see your resume...i would suggest getting rid of the "objective".

Have you thought of just not mentioning the MBA? Frankly, just having an MBA doesn't carry much weight...you get one for the networking, access, etc. Just say you were playing baseball for the interim, you have great undergrad grades, a finance degree, etc....no reason you shouldnt be able to land an analyst gig. It's that mba holding you back. Your net is probably cast at a lot of places but going forward, I'd leave it off.

I have considered leaving the MBA off, but then I worried about having to explain what I did during the offseasons (assuming I'd run into a banker at some point in any bank who would be sports savvy enough to realize we have a 5 month off-season).

The objective I don't really care either way about--some bankers have given me feedback to leave it because it's my "hook" and others have said it's unnecessary.

Jan 31, 2009

Go to Princeton and get a MFin. A lot of MBA's there and you could break in rather easy with that on your resume.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jan 31, 2009

At best, you have a shot at a regional bank in the Southeast. I've honestly never heard of U of Tampa and the school's lack of a reputation is not doing you any favors.

I agree with an above poster who told you to get rid of the "objective" field. Get rid of it.

Also, don't EVER defend the validity of your U of Tampa MBA by saying that the U of Tampa is "AACSB accredited." Even absolute shit-hole schools have the accreditation. Pulling that line on bankers will make you appear clueless and unaware.

Jan 31, 2009
whateverittakes:

At best, you have a shot at a regional bank in the Southeast. I've honestly never heard of U of Tampa and the school's lack of a reputation is not doing you any favors.

I agree with an above poster who told you to get rid of the "objective" field. Get rid of it.

Also, don't EVER defend the validity of your U of Tampa MBA by saying that the U of Tampa is "AACSB accredited." Even absolute shit-hole schools have the accreditation. Pulling that line on bankers will make you appear clueless and unaware.

Nowhere in these resumes/cover letters have I ever listed that is is accredited--I don't try to defend the school with that. Haha, I'm not even going to go there. I just focus on what I accomplished while there, and try to drop in my attendance at the University of Rochester and that I turned down acceptance into their B-School when I have the chance--just to show that I had the chance, but pursued a dream instead.

Thank you for the comments, I appreciate it.

Jan 31, 2009

Hey,

Banks are full of athletes (college and professional). It may take some homework, but I would go through the banks and try to identify the guys that played sports either in college or professionally and email them directly.

Here's what I'm talking about:

If you wanted to apply to Baird, check out the bios of their Partners. Joe Pellegini played for the Jets and Falcons. Try to get his email and contact him directly (tailor your story to be about how you're trying to transition from sports to finance).

http://www.rwbaird.com/ci/investment-banking/indus...
If you wanted to apply to a PE firm, you can see that HKW in Indianapolis has two former professional athletes (Chairman was a football player and a Partner was a hockey player):

www.hkwinc.com

Given your background, I think it's worth doing the little bit of research to figure out where you can get an in.
When I used to work in banking, I used to work with a guy who went from professional baseball straight to a middle-market PE firm. Send me a note at my WSO email, and I can give you an introduction. I'm sure he'd be happy to give you some pointers.

What school did you transfer from?

Jan 31, 2009

I played baseball in college and it has come up a lot in my interviews(s/t) and helped me a little. Your grades are fine. I was at Leh/Bar and of my team of 13...8 played D1 sports..

on a flip note.. we have declined to interview two mlb players and one nfl player looking for entry level work.

Jan 31, 2009

Whats up man I too went to University of Tampa for MS in Finance, transferred from the MS Program at UMich and am trying to break into investment banking. I wouldn't be critical of UT bro, it's not a well known school but the level of education here is very good (better than UMich in my opinion).

I like to use that as a talking point in an interview. Say something like its not a well known school so I have everything to prove and will work twice as hard as anyone else etc... a lot of boutique banks love intelligent grads from non-target schools because of this. Its also important to say that you'll take the Pepsi Challenge with any of those Ivy League kids any day with your little inexpensive UT Degree and that they wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.

Just some of my thoughts, of course what do I know I haven't broken in yet.

May 23, 2007

Painful as it has been to get here, hopefully I can give some insight. I am well on the record as saying Rotman has excellent access to ibanking and you are right that it won't help now to argue one school over another.

As for your question of whether all associates in Canada were analysts, the answer is a VERY clear "no". I know lots of examples of people entering IB as associates who have never done IB before. I even know a few who did it without an MBA (lateral from law, industry or accounting).

I don't really understand the posts by scotttwibell and commie; neither of them speak to experiences I have had in my career. Many analysts go to b-school, many return to banking and not all chase PE/Hedge fund jobs. I for one was an analyst, went to b-school and returned to banking. I actually like banking.

Couple of words of advice: investment banking requires different skills than law and therefore you need to put forward a resume that speaks to the strengths you bring to ibanking. It should be a very different resume than the one with which you apply to legal jobs. Also, apply broadly within investment banking. One of the secrets of getting the job you want out of b-school is to shop an offer before it explodes. If you are interviewing with Merrill and you get a BMO offer, shop the BMO offer to Merrill to get an offer there. Even if you were marginal before, you will appear more attractive and likely pre-empt the process. Even getting a boutique offer can compel an offer.

Good luck.

Jan 31, 2009
May 23, 2007