I’m queer and really struggling with my Christianity. Does God really hate me?
Grew up in a baptist Christian household - we have queer extended family but my immediate family is violently homophobic. As in, “we love gay people as long as it’s not one of our kids” type, where if I came out and sat in it - it’d be labeled as a satanic attack, meant to throw me off the right path, and ultimately would end in estrangement.
I believe in my Lord and savior Jesus Christ wholeheartedly- not looking for replies from those that don’t. We don’t have to agree and that’s okay. I didn’t suffer any sexual trauma growing up, I literally just am attracted to my same sex and see myself being happy in a monogamous godly relationship with one one day.
Is that not possible? I don’t want a “feel good narrative” around Christianity I want the real - does me being queer, but godly in the rest of my life bar me from seeing Heaven one day? I know scripture is ultimately up to interpretation and needs to be historically analyzed in its context, but fuck guys I just don’t want to hate myself for being this way anymore. If I lose my family due to bigotry that’s not of God that’s fine but I don’t want them to separate themselves from me because they’re actually right and God does not support this.
What’s the truth? What can I do? I love God and always thought he made me perfectly the way I was, and if I live for him I could one day reunite with him. Is that not true?
Traditional Protestant here (not Baptist, confirmed heterosexual). First, understand God can forgive (though he may not) any transgression of man, do not pay close heed to those who claim to know the altitude of Heaven or temperature of Hell as neither are in the Bible. All of us are broken until Judgment Day when we are reconciled with Him, if we are of the Elect. There are signs we may or may not be, yet those are only signs. I reject the “feel good narrative” that we are all saved. Some are destined for perdition.
Levitical law, which we don’t follow, condemns homosexual acts. There are some Old Testament passages that do too in a non-legal focus, although the narratives around that (such as Lot) are not straightforward. The New Testament condemns these acts in more explicit terms, along with sexual acts and practices most 2021 Americans, including the churched ones, have transgressed. I’m not saying it isn’t sinful, I am saying some of your buddies aren’t losing sleep about their premarital heterosexual relations which are condemned in Pauline letters in fiery language. Like speeding on the highway with other cars going 80, all of us sinning doesn’t make it better. But you may be too tough on yourself here.
I cannot speak to the family angle, I would guess they are more accepting than you would think, certainly no more harsh than you are describing. There are churches, obviously, that run the gamut concerning their treatment of same sex attraction. If you respect your Baptist background but cannot stomach not being married in faith, there are more same sex friendly evangelical churches. Working within the church to change it is not something I appreciate as there is such a wide variety of denominations which serve all types of people. Going full mainline would not be recommended based on your history. It seems based on your post you want to stay pious and on a righteous path, which should be commended. Prayers are with you.
Devout Protestant here. People who condemn homosexuality on Biblical grounds do so using 6 passages or so. Let's explore them.
1. Gen. 9:20-27. Drunken Noah and Ham. Noah gets drunk and is naked in a tent. Ham does something shameful to Noah. Japheth and Shem cover their father with a cloth. Noah curses Ham. This passage is referring to some sort of non-consensual perversion, and is not applicable to consensual relationships.
2. Gen. 19:1-11. Two angels appear at the home of Lot. A mob of men from Sodom (including city elders) approach Lot's house and ask to have sex with the angels. Lot offers his daughters to the mob instead. No sex is had and the angels pull Lot inside the house, shut the door, and smite the mob with blindness so they can't bother the house. This too is nonconsensual.
3. Lev. 18:22 & Lev. 20:13. Very clear denouncement of laying with mankind as though it were womankind. Various scholars of antiquity say this is only because of the broader historical context of idolatrous homosexual sex or temple prostitution. Other people say that the pronouncement is clear as crystal and nothing else is needed. The 20 passage is basically a capital punishment version of 18.
4. 1 Cor. 6:9-10. Paul denounces "abusers of themselves with mankind" which has been interpreted a myriad of ways. You're not going to find any definitive meaning for "arsenos koiten." Never. People have called it pederasty, temple prostitution, masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, consensual homosexual sex, and any other number of things.
5. 1 Tim. 1:10. Another passage with arsenos koiten. We're running in circles here.
6. Rom. 1:26-27. This is Paul's clearest criticism of homosexuality if there is one. He says that men abandoned their natural love of women and turned it on each other and err in doing so. Whether this refers to some other cultural practice like pederasty or temple prostitution is your judgment.
All that textual analysis to say that it is perfectly defensible to say that the Bible either does or does not condemn homosexuality. I'm not going to counsel you either way.
Christ denounced many sexual sins, and homosexuality was never mentioned. Christ told His disciples that it was only right to divorce someone in the instance of adultery, and that even in that case, one should not remarry until the ex-spouse has died. Christ said that anyone who looked at someone and lusted after them had already fornicated with them in their hearts. Many of the people who condemn are guilty of one or both of these. The text isn't completely clear, and I'm not going to counsel you either way. I have my own opinions.
God doesn’t hate anyone.
That’s kind of his thing (:
May I introduce you to the old testament ?
Raised strongly Christian, although I'm agnostic as an adult. As others have posted, the bible sends a bit of a mixed message on the subject. My theory on why certain sex acts as well as other things like eating shell fish, eating blood, and touching dirty animals were all banned was more so the state at the time would have easy ammo to use to prevent the commoners from doing stuff that would cause disease outbreaks, and other things that were generally bad for society such as carelessly making an oath, having unkempt hair, banging your mom, banging your sister, etc. etc..
Don't let it ruin your life, you only get one. Be you and enjoy it.
IMO conservative christians put way too much emphasis on the gay/sex debate. It gets to the point where people do it to virtue signal- I get a little cringe when certain Catholics/Christians only care about gay/sex issues. In my experience, It's not uncommon for someone to showcase to the world that they're 'waiting till marriage' but in actuality are banging their gf every night... (Source: I go to a catholic university and I'm friends with a lot of the conservative catholics. I am slightly conservative myself too)
Honestly if someone as almighty and all-knowing as Jesus came down to Earth, he would have way bigger things to deal with than 2 dudes getting at it in bed, such as:
- Communism and fascist regimes
- Genocide that is occurring in China & other countries
- Abortion and China's 1-child policy
- Harsh treatment of immigrants/refugees in countries all around the world
In the grand scheme of things, is gay really that big of a deal?
(I know this isn't a strong theological argument, but it helped put things into perspective for me)
Can you explain why communism is so explicitly anti biblical? Seems like an odd inclusion but not immediately shooting the idea down
Yeah, that was a big mistake on behalf of Marx/Lenin due to how religious the working class typically is.
Can you imagine how much more powerful the communists would be if they just didn't fuck with religion?
Even though I’m obviously not pro communism knowing to what it eventually leads, there is no doubt that Marx was influenced by Christianity/the bible in his works. Marx for example spoke heavily about the workers rights to his/her fruits of the labour.
Psalm 128:2 says:
“You will eat the fruit of your labor; blessings and prosperity will be yours.”
Isaiah 65:21-23 says:”
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.”
plus there are many other scriptures like that.
It's an ideology that not only denies God, replacing it with the state, but also explicitly sees religion as an obstacle from ''class consciousness''. There's no compatibility between the two.
The anti-spiritual side of communism is very visible in the commie-blocks of Eastern Europe, where everything looks like the same grey. The type of forcefully ''equal society'' libx are trying to build in the US, where everyone thinks exactly the same and everything is boring and ugly.
Yeah, Jesus would totally be okay with libx abusing the minds of kids for their political agenda. Lolz.
To op: The bible is pretty clear when it comes to homosexuality and says that no one engaging in those acts will enter Gods kingdom. However, you shouldn’t be afraid of some type of retaliation since Job 34:12 says:” For a certainty, God does not act wickedly.”
At the end of the day even though some may not agree with your acts, the Christian dogma preaches that we have to love our neighbour whether he/she is black,white, gay, straight etc while not judging each other since only the lord can do so.
Jesus speaks in John 13:34 and says:”So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other.”
Why can't non religious people comment? As long as they are not trying to convert you to atheism, why do you have an issue with it?
Because I'm asking for a deeper biblical understanding as someone who does not know the theology that well to confidently know how God sees queerness. If you're non religious and don't study the Bible what can you offer to this conversation beyond unsubstantiated opinion? Not being rude but asking for both of us to not waste our time. If you're a Christian that converted to a non religious belief that's potentially valuable insight - but as I said before, my confidence in my faith is steadfast - so I will not find a reply that suggests religious distancing to be useful personally.
You need to stop believing in things that aren't real, and I'm not referring to God.
No false idols!
There's a lot of terrible theology here from a lot of non-practicing or faux Christians. The hypocrisy of other Christians does not in any way inform your life decisions or mitigate your own sins. It's sickening to read the heresy that people are preaching in this thread.
The Bible explicitly condemns homosexuality; this is not even in question--the way some have tried to rationalize it away here is breathtaking. Also, salvation is based on faith alone, and not works--any other position is heresy. Faith without works is dead (James), which means that if your faith doesn't inform your behavior then you probably aren't a true believer.
Jesus told the rich man to sell his possessions and follow him--this wasn't a message through time that all rich people should sell their possessions and become monks (the early church was financially supported by rich people). It's a challenge to those who have major stumbling blocks in their lives to set aside those things that prevent them from following the way of the master. For many people, it's money, drugs, alcohol, unforgiveness, hate, fraud, lies, greed, promiscuity, etc. For some, it's homosexuality. Your situation is not unique. Either you can follow Christ or you can follow your base desires. One way is freedom and the other is slavery. You have to determine for yourself which is freedom and which is slavery.
FWIW, I've been following the way for 3 years now and have remained celibate as a straight person. It's not easy, but I have my priorities in order.
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