Is The American Dream Not Possible Without A College Degree?

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Monkeys, I was going through this
article
http://fortune.com/2016/05/23/homeownership-millen... on Fortune which said that the American dream is not possible without a college degree.

Many people assume that record-low rates of homeownership among young adults is a consequence of high student loan debts, but new research by Apartment List shows that's not necessarily the case. A much bigger problem: Low wages, and high housing prices, especially for millennials without a college degree.

The report goes on to say that it would take the average person without a college degree 15 years to be able to afford to buy a house, or five years more than a college grad with student debt. And this is an optimistic case.

Do you think that the society places a premium on education? Can we make it a more level playing ground for the weaker economic sections?

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Comments (183)

Best Response
Jul 27, 2017

Welders can make $150K/year without a college degree.

Screw prestige, make stuff get cash.

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Jul 27, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

Welders can make $150K/year without a college degree.

Screw prestige, make stuff get cash.

Yeah and Underwater Welders $300K/yr (most only work 1/4 time), Saturation Divers $500K

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Jul 27, 2017

38,150 USD

Jul 27, 2017

Underwater welding is known for being very dangerous(hence the high pay).

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Jul 28, 2017
Isaiah_53_5:
IlliniProgrammer:

Welders can make $150K/year without a college degree.

Screw prestige, make stuff get cash.

Yeah and Underwater Welders $300K/yr (most only work 1/4 time), Saturation Divers $500K

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, commercial divers and underwater welders have a mean (average) hourly wage of $26.32, while the mean annual wage is approximately $54,750. Additionally, the top percentile (90%) can make approximately $93,910 or more.

    • 1
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Jul 28, 2017

I would take those statistics for what they're worth. It says for doctors/surgeons that the 90th percentile is "over $208,000" when I know surgeons who make over $1M.

Jul 27, 2017
5 million:
Isaiah_53_5:
IlliniProgrammer:

Welders can make $150K/year without a college degree.

Screw prestige, make stuff get cash.

Yeah and Underwater Welders $300K/yr (most only work 1/4 time), Saturation Divers $500K

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, commercial divers and underwater welders have a mean (average) hourly wage of $26.32, while the mean annual wage is approximately $54,750. Additionally, the top percentile (90%) can make approximately $93,910 or more.

That's not what my friends make if they're willing to travel.

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Jul 28, 2017

BLS is fake news

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Jul 30, 2017

Very true. Maybe not starting, but they can get there. Tech schools have a high percentage of job placement out of the gate.

Aug 3, 2017

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Jul 27, 2017
Aug 4, 2017

Not sure where you'd get those 150K/yr welder jobs nowadays. Those jobs were prevalent when gas prices were high and pipeliners were needed. West Texas and PA/OH areas were filled with pipeliners making 250K and helpers making almost 100K. That was working 12 hours a day...7 days a week in the blistering Texas heat.

Fab shops don't pay much. Shut downs (plant maintenance) are okay, the pay is good but you're on a contract for a limited time then need to find a new project. Then you're living in an expensive shit hole motel or trailer park. Recruiters are starting to low ball wages due to welder abundance. Bad time for welding right now.

    • 2
Jul 27, 2017

Yes and no.

Let me explain in a simple yet effective way. College back then, was an investment. Only a very small amount of people went to college. Those came from wealthy families, got elite jobs after words or went on to lucrative professions.

Now, the stupid, moron government opened the playing field and starting guaranteeing schools their tuition and all that. Since the money was guaranteed, colleges started shooting up their prices and competitors did the same. Society pushes their kids to go to overpriced colleges (due to the government) to get majors that aren't worthy anymore and get shitty ROIs on their investment. The only majors to go college for are STEM. Not even, math and physics, for example, are useless majors that don't have any application in the market place.

But this a cycle you can't escape. The job market is now saturated with college kids. Employers now require 4 year degrees, with a preferred MBA for entry level jobs. You go $200k in the hole for a job that pays you $50k a year. It's all a scam. I feel bad for all of you to be honest. People who work up to a PHD spend all that money and don't get return to be honest, just a waste of time and money. If you're a real hustler with a brain you don't ANY more than a 4 year.

You can do trade work for $70k a year and don't need to spend 6 figures on useless degrees. Then you can open your own business and sky's the limit. You can be a hustler and fuck up someone A/C of whatever if you're the HVAC person and they will keep coming back for your services, I mean, who the fuck doesn't get their A/C fixed.

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Jul 27, 2017

"The only majors to go college for are STEM. Not even, math and physics"...I guess take out the "S" and "M"?

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Jul 27, 2017

Engineering and Computer Science is where it's at. Math and physics majors can't make shit besides theoretical...stuff on the white board and that doesn't make money unless you're a $20k per year schmuck teacher.

    • 7
Jul 27, 2017

Also, if you were able to read properly I said "Not even."

Lmao. Because a Biology major has a strong impact in the real world. Give me a break.

    • 6
Jul 27, 2017

And if you were able to punctuate properly you would realize you used too many commas there. Try learning how to use a hyphen or a semicolon before you try to be an internet tough guy and rag on someone else's reading comprehension.

    • 1
Jul 27, 2017

And you work in real estate.

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Jul 27, 2017

Was that supposed to be a burn? Judging by the speed with which you responded, I'm guessing you don't work at all.

    • 1
Jul 27, 2017

I'm at work right now actually, it was probably slow and I was on my phone.

Jul 27, 2017

Did you get this from Business Insider? Or MSN.com?

    • 2
Jul 27, 2017

No, just common sense.

    • 2
Jul 27, 2017

you're an idiot

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Jul 27, 2017

All the Math and Physics majors mad they can't turn all they learned into some cash hahaha.

    • 2
Jul 27, 2017

You do realize that math and physics majors are some of the most sought-after people in arenas like high-frequency trading, where quant modeling skills trump all else? Same goes for any role that espouses highly-abstracted quantitative work. But hey, that wasn't on MSN or Business Insider so you might have missed it. All fair.

    • 2
Jul 27, 2017

Very cool! They're kids with 4.0s from top schools and HFT/quant work makes up .001 % of jobs in this country. We're talking on a much bigger scale. I know this is a forum literally dedicated to high-finance but people seriously need to start using their brain and realize these jobs are for the creme of the crop. Now, tell me, where do the kids from state schools go with Math? Actuary work?! Yeah the salary is sexy until you need to get your licenses. OH! Investment banking? You can be an underwater Islamist studies major from Princeton and get into IB.

HFT is also white collar crime at its finest buddy but that doesn't matter to the stuff I mentioned I just felt that pointing that out.

Oh wait, are you going to respond "dude you're an idiot."

    • 3
Jul 27, 2017

A) Sure it's a small percentage, but so is the percentage of kids majoring in math and physics. Moreover, there are plenty of career paths that math/physics majors can go for - academic, aerospace, research, the list goes on. You're pulling stuff out of your ass with that one.

B) Actuaries make a lot of money, and even more with their licenses. Not sure what your point was there.

C) You may say HFT is a crime, but it's legal. Tell it to my forex trading machine when it's not busy making me rich.

D) I didn't say you were an idiot. I merely gave that scholarly monkey one of the many silver bananas it deserves for saying so.

    • 2
Jul 27, 2017

A) "Academics, Research." Yeah lots of money to be made in those areas. Oh! You have to enjoy what you do, nevermind!

B) Ok.

C) Since you're trying to flex your money at me, I made $9k in a few things that were just as brainless as your forex machine. Didn't require a 4 year degree. Will continue to keep hustling and making this dough while my peers go deeper in their parents' retirement fund.

D) Thanks

E) I just wanted to point out the reality of the job market to folks on here who think they're special just because they want IB/Trading/etc. You're walking in a room with 50 people who all have 3.8-4.0 GPAs in the hardest majors from the best schools. You're a NOBODY. The best way to standout is actually do something different like make $9k doing the easiest shit and showing you can bring value to your employer. You don't get that studying Shakespeare or doing nonsense math that isn't applicable in everyday life.

    • 1
Jul 27, 2017

$9k is something to talk about? LOL.

Edit: I'd just like to point out that just because you don't see the value in "nonsense math" doesn't mean that there isn't any value in it. That's just self-affirmative language for "I don't know this so it must be useless", which can be roughly translated back to English as "I'm ignorant."

Jul 27, 2017

I did make a lousy $2k washing dishes this Summer plus the $9k. For someone who hasn't stepped foot on a college campus (yet) it's pretty damn impressive. All my friends have signed their $20k loans for their first year. All for gen eds and intro classes. I love it.

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Jul 27, 2017

You are so woefully misled. I sincerely hope you can dig yourself out of this knowledge hole. I come from a humble background, raised by poor parents, and in my teenage years I thought the same way you seem to think now. I sincerely hope you can see the light one day. College and higher education are not for your employer or for any career, they're for you. You and you alone benefit most from the knowledge you gain, not your boss. You can't provide value if you don't know how to. Those numbers you're touting aren't even impressive, they're mediocre as fuck. My buddy waiting tables and doing rock band covers in Bumfuck, America makes $2k on a weekly basis.

And you talk about $20k in loans, so let's say college for them costs $100k overall. Say they get a job that pays $70k out of school and they can pay their loans in 5-6 years with a decent budget. By year 5 of their career they could be making $120k+, going with some pretty conservative estimates. That person would then be 27, earning $120k/year for working 40 hours/week, and still be looking at more money going forward. They have something more valuable than petty cash, they have time. They have the option to take vacations in Tahiti or to build something for themselves, and if they choose the latter then they're already equipped with the knowledge to compete. You're not going to build any business that makes you decent cash if your competition can easily outsmart you.

This isn't an ad for college, just letting you know that your perspective is very, very narrow. We can cherry pick kids who paid $100k to major in Gender Studies, but people who do things correctly and who have the hustle to succeed know full well that there is value to be had in learning more because it isn't about "nonsense math", it's about being able to do things better, more effectively, at larger scale, and in a more diverse array of applications.

    • 9
Jul 28, 2017
Kassad:

This isn't an ad for college, just letting you know that your perspective is very, very narrow. We can cherry pick kids who paid $100k to major in Gender Studies, but people who do things correctly and who have the hustle to succeed know full well that there is value to be had in learning more because it isn't about "nonsense math", it's about being able to do things better, more effectively, at larger scale, and in a more diverse array of applications.

And college circa 2017 teaches none of these skills ("learning how to learn"). Most "college capable" people learned about 95% of their adult skills in high school.

Jul 27, 2017

"95%"

Let's put that in a research study. Dances said it, it's got to be accurate. I mean hey, it was true for Dances, so it's got to be true for everybody!

Jul 28, 2017
Kassad:

"95%"

Let's put that in a research study. Dances said it, it's got to be accurate. I mean hey, it was true for Dances, so it's got to be true for everybody!

Personally, I learned dick in college. I spent most of my time drunk and still somehow graduated on time. High school was way, way, way harder for me than college. Let's not pretend like college is anything else other than a profit center for professors and administrators.

Jul 27, 2017

Look I'm not going to waste your time, school is a joke to me . I've taken college level courses in high school and got As in most of them. You show up to class, do the work, take the test and get a good grade on it. It's all just a fucking game and you get nothing out of but a stamp on a sheet of paper just like the millions who are competing against you. I'm going to this upcoming fall anyways since my parents are forcing me, I'm just going to kill it like I always do but I know I will get nothing out of it but debt

Jul 27, 2017

I'm so confused. If you kill it so easily, why don't you have free tuition at Harvard? And if not going to school, why don't you start making money right now? Not lunch money like $2k, but money like $1-3k per week like I made trading stocks at 18? I mean, I lost all my money after a few months because I was a dumbass, but you clearly aren't. So tell me, why not go "kill it" this very moment? I don't think your parents would be so unreasonable as to recommend college if they thought you could kill it. Something, I'm not sure what, but something just doesn't seem to add up here. It's almost as if there was something you didn't know, but you kill it so I have to think of something else. Hm...

    • 4
Jul 27, 2017

BC I did absolutely terrible on the SAT. I'm not smart.

Jul 27, 2017

I told you've I've been making some good money aside from my dishwasher job, $9k man. It's terrible but a start.

Jul 27, 2017
Kassad:

I'm so confused. If you kill it so easily, why don't you have free tuition at Harvard? And if not going to school, why don't you start making money right now? Not lunch money like $2k, but money like $1-3k per week like I made trading stocks at 18? I mean, I lost all my money after a few months because I was a dumbass, but you clearly aren't. So tell me, why not go "kill it" this very moment? I don't think your parents would be so unreasonable as to recommend college if they thought you could kill it. Something, I'm not sure what, but something just doesn't seem to add up here. It's almost as if there was something you didn't know, but you kill it so I have to think of something else. Hm...

Why not go kill it? They're millions of college students looking for jobs. I can have a 4.0 and when I go to an interview and that kid from Yale has a 3.8 GPA and im from a state school. Who are they going to pick? Exactly, I'm not going to fix anything if it isn't broken.

Jul 27, 2017

You've demonstrated time and again in this discussion how little you understand about the real world. I wonder, then, how people with low GPAs and who went to state schools get into investment banking, hedge funds, research, and generally do whatever they want despite their on-paper affliction.

And I have to say again, stop talking about your $9k. That you're proud of that shows a lack of perspective on so many levels.

Jul 27, 2017
Kassad:

You've demonstrated time and again in this discussion how little you understand about the real world. I wonder, then, how people with low GPAs and who went to state schools get into investment banking, hedge funds, research, and generally do whatever they want despite their on-paper affliction.

And I have to say again, stop talking about your $9k. That you're proud of that shows a lack of perspective on so many levels.

That's survivorship bias and what's wrong with this forum. Idk where you're getting that statement but state kids never make it, if anything, rarely. It's been a firm statement across all finance forums that going to a lower level school finished 99% your chance.

Jul 28, 2017

P&D, why can't you push yourself to be that "rare' exception? Do you lack internal motivation?

Jul 27, 2017

According to everyone my chances are low. I just tell my friends I want IB and they yap on about how hard it is and I'm not entitled to an IB job just because I get good grades and network. I have already messaged IBers and they say it's going to be slim for me. I'd rather chase something that's in reach and doable like a telemarketing broker since they make money on how good they sell.

Jul 28, 2017
Kassad:

And I have to say again, stop talking about your $9k. That you're proud of that shows a lack of perspective on so many levels.

I met a guy a few years ago who retired after a $15k lawsuit settlement check. He went out and bought himself a new chainsaw and a used ATV and never leaves home (which is the middle of no where Oklahoma). Im starting to think he and pump and dump might be kin.

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Aug 4, 2017

Dammit, quit your autistic screeching.

Jul 27, 2017

Good point. I don't give a shit about math because it won't make me or my employer money which matters in the end. The American Dream is money and you don't need college to add value (Monetary) to your firm. So many other ways to stand out that will actslly benefit you.

Jul 28, 2017

Pump and Dump, " I don't give a shit about math because it won't make me or my employer money which matters in the end"

dude........are you fucking dumb??

Facebook makes money off ad targeting. Complicated math and machine learning determines who is targeted by those ads

You need to get a clue fast

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Jul 27, 2017

Do I give 2 shits? No. Has math made me money? No. Will it make me money? No. I am good at math but not amazing, it doesn't interest me because it won't make my life easier.

Look dude you're a banker who's just going to personally ridicule me even though I am successful and will continue to be because you're working 100+ hour work weeks. If you're just going to keep calling me retarded and not add anything useful don't reply.

I also don't care about Facebook. I don't work for them and never will.

    • 5
Jul 27, 2017

For the love of god, go to college. I'm not being facetious. Trust me, you will gain from it. There is much to learn, and you're displaying the best argument possible for college right now.

Jul 27, 2017

Haha, I'm being forced to anyways. Might as well since this state is paying me to go.

Jul 28, 2017
Pump and Dump:

Haha, I'm being forced to anyways. Might as well since this state is paying me to go.

and yet

" I'm going to this upcoming fall anyways since my parents are forcing me, I'm just going to kill it like I always do but I know I will get nothing out of it but debt"

hmmmmm.....

Jul 27, 2017

I'm getting 2 years tuition free

Jul 28, 2017

"I made this money on my own and I'm proud about it since I earned it. Yes I was a dishwasher but I made $2k off that and $9k off other things, I just payed for one year of tuition outright."

There's year three, think you can hustle your way into another $11k in three years?

Jul 27, 2017

Scholarship- there's 2 , now need one more. Gonna make as much as I can

Jul 27, 2017

What's your next rebuttal pal? Lol

Jul 27, 2017

Although, I'm not too fearful. I have no doubt that someone who hasn't even started their freshmen year in college knows it all, including what majors are or aren't worth doing, as well as their usefulness. (Btw if you genuinely believe physics is a waste to major in, you are either a.truly retarded b. just have no clue what you're talking about or c. are trolling everyone)

Jul 27, 2017

I am retarded. I'm not denying that. I got a 3.6ish GPA with a pretty good amount of advanced placement courses. I went to the top HS in the state. I got a 1050/1600 on my SAT, college isn't for me. I'm good with people and good with stuff I can learn on my own. I've made money on my own and I'm proud of it because didnt require being smart like my peers who got 1580-1600 on their SATs. I've done my best to make due of what I have and I'm pretty happy about it. Meanwhile you're a loser with $0 in his bank account, a nobody. If I'm a retard I'm one fucking happy one pal.

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Jul 27, 2017

Lol if you want to make this a dick measuring contest, I had a 3.7-3.8ish GPA in high school (with most likely more AP classes than you), 99th percentile ACT, and have far more money than the $9k that you can't stop bragging about in my bank account. It's hilarious how fucking arrogant you are, and more importantly, I can't help but wonder if I also thought I was the greatest, smartest human to walk this Earth when I was a senior in high school. Do yourself a favor and realize you don't know everything, and more importantly, understand you really don't know what you don't know - you'll get much farther in life whether or not you continue with your higher education.

Also love that you didn't mention a single thing about the main point of what I said, which was that you think STEM is a waste, as you're so terribly wrong and that line of thinking is just so evident of how little you understand about this world or how it works.

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Jul 27, 2017

Ok. My point in stating my stats was to show that college isn't for me since a user was pointing that out to me. You're the one calling me a "fucking retard." And good for you, I'll be honest I'm not capable of scoring near those stats. I work hard but I'm not smart and gifted with talents. People like you go to college and drop your loads of cash. I make money and don't need college for that and I've shown it.

Jul 27, 2017

I love how your arguments have moved from "STEM is a waste for everyone" to "I personally don't need it" since you genuinely had no clue how to argue otherwise. And you say you're not capable, but didn't somewhere in one of your earlier posts you said something along the lines of you "killing it" in school?

Jul 27, 2017

Yea I did ok in HS in terms of GPA, just fked up a few classs along the line. Didn't really kill it

Jul 28, 2017

Who is still taking the SAT that scores up to a 1600? didn't they stop that in like 2006 or something?

Jul 27, 2017

Are you ready for this? They switched back to the 1600 system.

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Jul 28, 2017

Dammit I'm old, or more accurately I'm apparently a very specific age range. Kids these days lol, they'll never know about that 2400 score test.

    • 1
Jul 27, 2017

It's all the same shot for me who cares

Jul 28, 2017

Why would you, at 18 or however old you are, already say you will never work for Facebook or any company? Why not keep the doors open everywhere instead of shutting them before you even begin your studies? That sounds like a bad move. What are your long term goals?

Jul 27, 2017

I scored a 1050 on my SAT dude. I'm not a genius like the Facebook people are. Like I said a million times, I'm a hustler and make due with what I have and don't complain. I'm not gifted with abilities to succeed in school but I scored a nice GPA and I'm getting some money for my state school.

I want to maybe open up a PWM form down the line and work in sales. I'm a great salesman, I can actually hold conversations and convince anyone anything, I'm that person.

Jul 28, 2017

Why would I trust you to manage my money if you don't believe math is a useful skill? How would I depend on you to communicate my balances in a timely matter? How would I trust you to make good investments?

Jul 27, 2017

I'm fucking dead. this kid has to be a troll there's no other way

Jul 27, 2017

No one was speaking to you pal, move along.

Jul 28, 2017

I think I have found the next Jordan Belfort.... though probably not near as successful.

Pump and dump, I look forward to hearing about the scams you come up with in life, I'm sure they will be wonderful.

Jul 27, 2017

@bl00211 shut up fucker. My friend who works as a telemarketer in a small shop recently sent me a pic of stock they just worked with, he finished the week with some very nice amount of dough, I will say that.

Jul 27, 2017

I mean math is obviously useful, a major is just going into the theoretical of math and it isn't applicable. It isn't calculation based in high level maths.

I also don't want to manage your money pal, not my goal in life.

Jul 27, 2017
Pump and Dump:

I mean math is obviously useful

yet

Pump and Dump:

I don't give a shit about math because it won't make me or my employer money

God damn one day you'll be saying this shit out loud and someone not in an online forum will put you in your place, and I guarantee there won't be anything better for you. Just quit digging yourself this hole, and realize as I've said before, there is so much shit you don't know that you don't know

Jul 27, 2017

Piss off dude we get the point.

Jul 27, 2017

Obviously, you don't. at all.

Jul 27, 2017

Yes I do. But you continue to personally attack me because you are insecure little fuck and compared your test scores to mine to TRY to make a point.

I sincerely feel bad for you. You may be good with numbers but I bet you're not a closer. Stick to paper pushing.

Jul 28, 2017

"I want to maybe open up a PWM form [sic] down the line "

You want to open up a private wealth management firm but "I also don't want to manage your money pal, not my goal in life."

I want to be a writer of novels, but I don't want to write books pal, not my goal in life.

Jul 27, 2017

I don't need a major in math to run a PWM firm.

Dude can you and Howard Hughes fuck off? You both have been riding me and it's getting annoying I get the fucking point but at the end of the day you I have a 20% SAT score and scored $11k this Summer

Jul 27, 2017

When I read the first few things you said, I thought to myself, "This sounds like a high schooler." Reading further down, turns out I was right. The fact that you said that math won't make you or your employer money and don't think math is worth it for anyone to major in just proved that you don't know what you don't know and it would be a complete waste for me or anyone else to explain to you otherwise

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Jul 27, 2017
Howard Hughes:

math won't make you or your employer money

I thought the same thing as OP at age 15. Today I'm a quant, lol. My life is fricking matrices and linear algebra all day.

That said I don't want to get into the weeds on the rest of this exchange.

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Jul 27, 2017

Haha, absolutely man. It honestly terrifies me that I may have had a similar attitude on other things similar to OP as well - I just hope I didn't tell too many people

Jul 27, 2017

You're a quant...did you think you would not be using math? Lolololololol

Jul 27, 2017
Pump and Dump:

You're a quant...did you think you would not be using math? Lolololololol

This job in its current form did not exist when I was in highschool lol.

Jul 27, 2017

Ok.

Jul 27, 2017

WTF, math and physics are THE MOST valuable subjects to take. Cause of their hard syllabus, it's the most crucial ones.

Jul 27, 2017

@Pump and Dump I agree with you but I'd like to point out some other "truths" (might be repeating what you've already said):

1.) You don't need to work on Wall Street to make a decent living in America. I majored in Finance and Supply Chain Management and despite the downturn in the O&G industry have seen my salary get bumped up 25%. I didn't attend some fancy pants Liberal Arts college instead I went to a local university in a major city.

What I learned early on in college is that I was exclusively responsible for my future and success. I HATE when the media shows poor college students who they say did everything right but are struggling to find a job. I call bullshit on a majority of these people.

I'm willing to bet none of these motherfuckers planned for or tried to pursue internships, tried to get work experience beyond working at a bar or fryer at KFC, or waited till the last year to visit the career services center to find a job. We have too many dumb ass people who wait for direction or don't realize that its up to them to ask the questions and tap into resources available to them.

2.) Why is it that people feel they need to live in expensive ass cities like San Francisco, New York City, etc? Do these ass clowns not realize that America is a big fucking country (same goes for Hillbilly Bob living in Bumfuck, West Virginia)? Why are you killing yourself trying to make it in NYC working part-time at Chipolte with your shitty Women's Studies degree from "$750K Liberal U"?

Move your dumb ass to places like San Antonio that have a much lower cost of living and where you can get a job that will pay enough to where you can have a chance of moving up and making it in this country.

3.) I'd love an answer on the next one. I've seen Indian grad students who despite their issues with Visas and work restrictions somehow manage to graduate, payoff their student loans, and find gainful employment while Susie Phi Delta Fuck Me or 2Cool4U Brad are struggling and living in Mommy and Daddy's basement.

This probably goes back to point #1 of absolutely idiotic people who for the life of them cannot think for themselves, make decisions, etc. A college education isn't supposed to teach you this stuff you're supposed to be able to figure things out using what little brain power you seem to have.

NO ONE should have to hold your fucking hands and teach you how to find a job, look at the cost of living and make decisions about your future, teach you how to budget. Granted we all need help in these areas but the point I'm trying to make is YOU need to take the initiative and tap into resources early on.

4.) VERY IMPORTANT! So many people have this false sense of belief that once they have a degree and a job that's it...they can now kick back and enjoy the next 40 years.

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

EVERYONE needs to educate themselves and continually be improving. You may have a bad ass job but it can be gone when you're 52. It behooves everyone to continually learn new skills and become well rounded individuals so that if you do lose your job you have other skills to fall back on. It is also up to you to save money and invest or grow your savings.

Too hard for you to figure out? Figure it the fuck out or find someone who does and learn. That shit ain't rocket science and if you managed to graduate from college you sure as fuck better be fucking able to figure 401(k)s, IRAs, and other financial terms and concepts and learn what it means to you.

NOTE: If anyone on WSO knows someone who has done everything they possibly can and is stuck working a minimum wage job please let me know. I'd love a real world example to prove me wrong!

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Oct 16, 2017

.

Jul 27, 2017

I don't want to go into entrepreneurship. I mean, opening a PWM firm would be awesome but that's my highest goal and idc care about it right now so quit using that against me.

at the end of the day, I hate the educational system but I'm still being paid by the government to go to college so I'm just going to kill it and see what happens. I know in life, closers win. I hope this thread didn't come off as me being whiny I just think you can make money without a degree but it's pretty much a must in every job post so I get it.

But, I matter more than a sheepskin. I can make it far regardless of school. Everyone has a degree, everyone has a 3.5+. Why not stand out?

Also please don't bring up blue collar jobs, scaring me.

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Aug 5, 2017

Not that easy to run an successful PWM mate, in simple terms try and persuade someone to trust their whole life savings with you. Shit takes years to create that kind of trust and relationship. Even big banks like MS PWM sometimes resort to cold callings.

Jul 27, 2017

Ok well that's a long time from now and he just asked what I wanted to do way down the line. Chill the fk out

Jul 27, 2017

I'm going to keep this short and not ridicule you since you wrote such a nice response, fuck you.

"Chump change...analysts." Quit comparing me to fucking analysts. They're 4 years older than me. I made this money on my own and I'm proud about it since I earned it. Yes I was a dishwasher but I made $2k off that and $9k off other things, I just payed for one year of tuition outright.

I'm going to make more anyways. It's not a lot but for a 17 year old who also owns a car worth $10k and has maintained it himself and gotten a scholarship, I think I'm doing a-okay so quit comparing me to fucking analysts pal.

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Jul 27, 2017

You are totally missing the point @JuiceIsLoose made, while at the same time totally making his point of lacking self-awareness. I'm slightly impressed

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Jul 27, 2017

Well I'm retarded like you said so can u explain?

Oct 16, 2017

Kid, buddy, buackaroo, pal. don't you ever dare fucking disrespect me again with your lack of understanding and intellect. you should be honored I even took the time to reply to you..

anyhow the whole point of my post wasn't to compare you to an analyst. The whole point was to get you to see the big picture and the grand scheme of things. 9k is 9k, regardless of who has it at what age. i don't care if your fucking dog has 9k. 9k is fookin nuttin.

Also, do you have ADHD? You seem like a socially awkward kid who can only speak to someone behind a keyboard and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

In conclusion, shut the fuck up, put in the work, and do your own thing. no need for a 17 year old to rant on a forum with content he doesn't even understand.

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Jul 27, 2017
JuiceIsLoose:

In conclusion, shut the fuck up, put in the work, and do your own thing. no need for a 17 year old to rant on a forum with content he doesn't even understand.

Eh gotta be honest though, it's nice to think that maybe one day P&D will look back and say, "Wow, Howard and Juice were right. I should donate 50% of my earnings for the rest of my life to them"

Jul 27, 2017

Not a chance buddy.

Jul 27, 2017

Also you haven't added any value to this conversation. All you did was bring up your ACT and GPA scores as if I was trying to compare them, call me "fucking retarded" , etc.

I'm going make some good money, I've already show you that I don't need a college degree to do that. Actions speak louder than words pal.

Jul 27, 2017

This is getting painful for me at this point, and I'm getting bored of arguing with a 17 year old. I actually typed out a lengthy response, but at the end of the day, due to your lack of self awareness and thinking that the $9k you made is actually a lot of money and a worthy achievement, it'd be pointless to continue. But I genuinely hope one day you'll realize that $9k isn't a lot of money, no matter who you are, and that one day you realize there is a ton of shit you don't know that you don't know.

But if you could do me on solid though homie, never bring up in public, whether it's your friends, girlfriend, whatever, that STEM degrees are useless. Trust me - I'm saving you from embarrassment.

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Jul 27, 2017

I've asked you to piss off before you started dick measuring. Stick your head back in the textbook pal, and $9k is an accomplishment for me. Certainly better than nothing. You're not a closer, stick to your sheepskin.

Jul 27, 2017

I don't have ADHD. I'm actually very good at speaking to large crowds and have done so before.

Please fuck off you haven't said anything useful

Jul 27, 2017

This cant be real....

"Math and science arn't important" ... "Math is obviously useful"

"School is a breeze" ... "but I fucked up along the line" ... "Low ACT score"

"I don't want to go into entreprenuership" ... "my dream is to open my own PWM firm"

If this kid isn't a troll, God bless.

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Jul 27, 2017

How about you stfu already? I already rested my case. I don't know what I want to do but I'm making pretty decent money and I'm happy with my life. No need to focus down the line. So many insecure fucks who are jealous of my legit earnings and want to TRY to drill me in the ground because I'm not intelligent. I sincerely feel bad for you.

Jul 27, 2017
Pump and Dump:

So many insecure fucks who are jealous of my legit earnings

Now I'm fucking annoyed I wasted time on you. You're obviously a troll, fuck

Jul 27, 2017

Ok I didn't mean to be an asshole and I'm not entitled to complements. But everyone here is degrading me as some loser just because I don't believe a college degree takes you far.

Jul 27, 2017

P&D, whether you're a troll or just a young bull, you've given me quite a laugh today. For that, I'll offer you a bit of advice.

This site has one purpose: self improvement / education in the realm of finance. Granted, every once in a while some experienced guys share some worthwhile and funny stories.

While the middle-school vulgar ignorance is pretty ammusing sometimes, it would probably be best to bottle it up and yell it into your Xbox Live microphone at the rest of the babies in the CoD search and destroy lobbies.

You're not being "attacked", you are simply be held accountable for saying the wrong things in the wrong place.

I used to buss tables, wash dishes, and clean grease traps at a local italian joint in my high school days as well. I understand you're making a little pocket change, but easy on the "legit earnings" talk, remember the positions of the people you're addressing around here.

Show some respect to people older than you for Godsake, and quit playing the vicitim card when your words come bank to haunt you. Always a pussy move.

If you don't like the responses you recieve around here, you're free to leave.

"If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch."

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Jul 27, 2017

To run with the big dogs I have to go to a good college, that requires one to be intelligent with high test scores. I should stick to sales. I don't have a place with all the geniuses on Wall Street. I like the boiler room culture where everyone compares their sales and not their grades/intellect. Sales doesn't care about your GPA or school, it cares if you can close. Am I wrong? This forum is full of ivy and t20 folk

Jul 27, 2017
Pump and Dump:

I'm going to keep this short and not ridicule you since you wrote such a nice response, fuck you.

"Chump change...analysts." Quit comparing me to fucking analysts. They're 4 years older than me. I made this money on my own and I'm proud about it since I earned it. Yes I was a dishwasher but I made $2k off that and $9k off other things, I just payed for one year of tuition outright.

I'm going to make more anyways. It's not a lot but for a 17 year old who also owns a car worth $10k and has maintained it himself and gotten a scholarship, I think I'm doing a-okay so quit comparing me to fucking analysts pal.

Didn't you have a different account yesterday?

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Jul 27, 2017

I changed my username fruitcake.

Jul 28, 2017

The AMERICANDREAM is still alive, it's just in a different ECOSYSTEM now. Start your own SEX DUNGEON or CANNABIS FARM!

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Side-by-side comparison of top modeling training courses + exclusive discount through WSO here.

Jul 27, 2017

I don't believe the American dream is about being employed and seeking external affirmation all life long. It is about self-reliance and the pursuit of happiness by using the personal freedom the constitution grants you. College may be a stepping stone towards riches but has nothing to do with being truly rich. Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg, Spiegel - to name more recent examples didn't graduate college. No one ever remembered a S&P500 CEO 10 years after his job stint ended; the American dream is exactly the opposite of what you're saying: its the granted possibility to achieve anything you want by walking the path you have created for yourself by not giving a damn about what others say; it is about creating and building things that are greater than yourself.

So is college important? For being comfortably employed all life long, yes in most cases it is. For achieving things greater than yourself? Not at all.

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Jul 28, 2017
kenofarabia:

I don't believe the American dream is about being employed and seeking external affirmation all life long. It is about self-reliance and the pursuit of happiness by using the personal freedom the constitution grants you. College may be a stepping stone towards riches but has nothing to do with being truly rich. Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg, Spiegel - to name more recent examples didn't graduate college. No one ever remembered a S&P500 CEO 10 years after his job stint ended; the American dream is exactly the opposite of what you're saying: its the granted possibility to achieve anything you want by walking the path you have created for yourself by not giving a damn about what others say; it is about creating and building things that are greater than yourself.

So is college important? For being comfortably employed all life long, yes in most cases it is. For achieving things greater than yourself? Not at all.

This. The "American dream" is one thing and one thing only--the right and ability to pursue happiness, whatever that may be. Your basic right to pursue happiness is achieved by the government respecting the rule of law and enforcing contracts, and by the government protecting your rights (to an attorney, to have a search warrant served to you prior to police entry, to freedom of speech, religion, assembly, to freedom of the press, etc.). Secondarily, your right to pursue happiness is assisted by the government by regulating interstate commerce, maintaining a stable currency, and protecting American interests overseas.

What you do with your freedom and your rights when both are granted to you AND protected is between you and yourself. To me, the "American dream" includes the OPPORTUNITY to fail, as well as the RIGHT to pick yourself up and to try again. Home ownership is not a measure of the American dream. Freedom and liberty are the measures.

Jul 27, 2017

Well college allows you to build employable skills. The problem lies with the American who fails to realize that a job is not the only path in life. Therefore, employable skills is also not the only skillset one can build. There are other paths, but we don't see them.

Jul 27, 2017

Plenty of trade jobs (as mentioned above) that can put you in the middle, even upper-middle class, if you just work hard and keep at it. You probably won't get wealthy, unless you start your own company (at which point you'd probably want a college education anyway).

Other than that, you could also make serious bank as an entrepreneur. If you're a very good developer, or can see good business opportunities, the startup route can be lucrative.
Not every startup will become a unicorn, but there are plenty of middle and lower range startups where the founders can retire (after being acquired) and live a comfy middle-class life.

Jul 27, 2017

I think it's possible to learn a skill (very well) and start getting people to pay you for it without a college degree. Seems like it's similar to the "anchor investor" concept where once you get those first few clients, it snowballs from there and you gain credibility. Definitely not as easy and requires more scrappiness without a degree.

Jul 27, 2017

if college wasn't an option, then i would develop the skillset/reputation for being an honest, sociable neighborhood mechanic. the good, honest ones make a killing and its a sticky recurring business

Jul 27, 2017

Read an article today reviewing America's dependence on the manufacturing jobs. Uneducated people, or at least men, who can't find work and decide to sit out of the labor market, aren't appealing for marriage. This hurts the ability of them to buy a home as they lack a two income home structure.

It was also pointed out that Americans don't have a strong precision work industry like in Switzerland or Germany with watches and cars. Structurally, we're not fit to resist the changing globe where capitalists are looking to compete on cost. Manufacturing is easy to outgrow because it doesn't require any creativity/skill like precision work.

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Jul 28, 2017

It takes the average college grad 15-20 years to save enough to put a down payment on a 3-br house in NYC/SF/LA

The American dream is dead for everyone, not just non-college grads

"Do you think that the society places a premium on education?" Are you asking if people who are more highly educated get paid more? Yes....

Jul 27, 2017
YungMonc:

It takes the average college grad 15-20 years to save enough to put a down payment on a 3-br house in NYC/SF/LA

The American dream is dead for everyone, not just non-college grads

"Do you think that the society places a premium on education?" Are you asking if people who are more highly educated get paid more? Yes....

What is this obsession with living in NYC/SF/LA?

I own in Chicago. Walk to work, highrise views of the lake. $350 per sqft. Little crime north of Roosevelt Road.

The American Dream is alive and well here.

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Jul 27, 2017

I believe that people believe what they want to believe. You can't convince someone that the "American dream" is alive outside cities like that if their version of the dream is living in those cities. Anyone who has been to a poor country and who knows how difficult it can be even to get by outside the US knows that we basically live lives as though we had video game cheat codes. All we have to do is work hard and we can get rich. That the possibility to get rich even exists is a total change in worldview for many outside this country.

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Jul 28, 2017

Looking to own property with a yard near the city someday

Jul 27, 2017
YungMonc:

Looking to own property with a yard near the city someday

Dearborn Park is at 900 s dearborn; the loop starts about five or six blocks north of that.

You can buy a 1700 square foot townhome with a (small) backyard for $450K and walk to the Chicago Board of Trade in about eight minutes.

Jul 27, 2017

Learn. A. Trade.

I've spoken to so many people who either...
1.) go to CC or no undergrad at all
2.) constantly complain about their overwhelming student debt

This country needs electricians, plumbers, garbage men/women, and local mechanics now more than ever. Unfortunately, we now have this large, unneeded social pressure to obtain multiple degrees. I guess people care about the "prestige" behind their title, but beyond that I can't quite understand it. I personally know electricians that made 60k+ out of their trade program, which was soon followed by 80-100k+ once they built a decent client base (granted some took a few more years than others). One of these fellows started his own local company and makes 250+. No degree.

This being said, many Americans w/o a bachelors simply don't believe in themselves. You don't think you'll ever make over 50k/year, you won't. You don't think you'll ever leave your drive-thru gig at McDonalds, you won't. These indivuals would rather live off of the govt than summon the courage to make a significant personal financial leap. This is where the stereotype and social pressure originates. Making money is a personal choice, nothing more.

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Jul 27, 2017

Considering that housing prices fluctuate/inflate independent of salaries, it would make sense that at some point the two will be disconnected.

Jul 28, 2017
FinanceRob:

Considering that housing prices fluctuate/inflate independent of salaries, it would make sense that at some point the two will be disconnected.

It wasn't like this until the early 1990's. From about 1890 to about 1990 real estate prices generally tracked with inflation. It wasn't until Fannie Mae decided to "make home possible" in the late 1980's/early 1990's that real estate prices became disconnected with inflation and/or wage growth.

Jul 27, 2017

Even during the 1920-30s?

Jul 28, 2017
FinanceRob:

Even during the 1920-30s?

The GSEs weren't the 800 lb gorilla in the mortgage world until the late 1980's.

Jul 27, 2017

Hmm right, but I would have expected there to have been a disparity during the 20s-30s with regards to home prices and income. Of course now it's on a different level.

Jul 28, 2017

I'm sure there were disparities in any given year, but the long-term (100-year) trend was for home prices to track inflation. Today, we don't see that because of all of the influences, including the GSEs and special tax breaks.

Jul 27, 2017

Coal miners make a lot of money without going to college. It's terrible for their health, but it pays the bills for their family.

Jul 27, 2017

Coal mining employs less people than Arby's and the solar industry. It is a dying industry and not worth living with horrific medical conditions for the rest of their life.

Jul 27, 2017

Per Time magazine, the coal indistry, in terms of labor, is expected to remain stable for 20 years. I'll try to find the stats and I'll message them to you

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Jul 27, 2017

Below is an image that states how projected electricity generated by coal will remain stable. I believe that this stability in electricity is correlated with the stability of coal jobs.
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/coa...

Jul 27, 2017

One of my buddy's dad got arrested, went to a community college, and worked at McDonald's. He started his own business and now he clears $300k.

Jul 27, 2017

No one threw out the idea that college is more than just for a degree. What a badass experience all around it is. You'll meet the best people and make the best memories.

Jul 27, 2017

Person A goes to a no-name state school and majors in Gender Studies, and graduates with a decent GPA.
Person B goes to a community college and learns welding, and then moves to the mountains where pay is twice as high. He also flips some cars on the side that he buys from auctions.

In terms of becoming successful, I would probably put more faith in Person B, unless Person A has a strong network.

Jul 27, 2017

I think there are a couple things that should be addressed.

  1. There are plenty of high paying blue collar jobs like plumbing/mechanics/etc that don't require college degrees and give workers a great standard of lifestyle.
  2. Going to college is only semi-valuable if you get a degree from a top 150 school. Most college graduates attended useless schools like Eastern Kentucky Blah Blah, which are not worth the cost.
  3. Unless you go to a t20 school in the US or top 5 in the UK, study a degree that is valuable. You can only get away with studying something like Russian History if it is at a place like Harvard/UVA/Oxbridge/LSE/UCL/etc.
  4. Unlike people in WSO, people would love to settle with a $60K 9-5 job. The vast majority of Americans are lazy and/or unaware of the opportunities available to them. The amount of poor people I have talked to that complain about great schools being insanely expensive yet not even checking the websites to understand they would get full aid is amazingly high.
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Jul 28, 2017
jackdonaghy26:

I think there are a couple things that should be addressed.

    - There are plenty of high paying blue collar jobs like plumbing/mechanics/etc that don't require college degrees and give workers a great standard of lifestyle.
    - Going to college is only semi-valuable if you get a degree from a top 150 school. Most college graduates attended useless schools like Eastern Kentucky Blah Blah, which are not worth the cost.
    - Unless you go to a t20 school in the US or top 5 in the UK, study a degree that is valuable. You can only get away with studying something like Russian History if it is at a place like Harvard/UVA/Oxbridge/LSE/UCL/etc.
    - Unlike people in WSO, people would love to settle with a $60K 9-5 job. The vast majority of Americans are lazy and/or unaware of the opportunities available to them. The amount of poor people I have talked to that complain about great schools being insanely expensive yet not even checking the websites to understand they would get full aid is amazingly high.

100% correct in every respect.

Jul 27, 2017

FYI - CFO of my current F500 went to a school likely quite a bit smaller than Eastern Kentucky and makes millions a year. So I would guess his degree has paid off well for him.

Jul 27, 2017

I am not saying there aren't successful graduates from no-name universities but you can't deny that there are more successful alumni from reputable colleges. Reputable colleges provide a huge network of elite alumni + easier chances to break through in tough industries + name to carry you throughout your career. There will always be 1 in a million stories, but those people are almost always the ones that were smart but simply didn't apply themselves in HS and did later on in life.

Jul 28, 2017
Big4please:

FYI - CFO of my current F500 went to a school likely quite a bit smaller than Eastern Kentucky and makes millions a year. So I would guess his degree has paid off well for him.

Pretty sure kids shouldn't make life decisions off of extreme outliers.

Jul 27, 2017

College is a fucking joke. The sooner America figures this out the better

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Jul 27, 2017

@Pump and Dump I think college is hurting the middle class, but I think if you're ok in academics and can get by you should go. Today's world is mostly driven by academics, from textbook size tax codes to drivers manuals, to the policy going on in Washington. There's hardly a place where the skills you gain in school and on a job don't come to be helpful. Just because a job might not lead to Warren Buffett money, there are some benefits to it. Generally, it might not be the end to real success, but it could be the means to finding what you want in out of life.

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Jul 27, 2017

A sheepskin doesn't teach me how to make money pal. That's all I'm trying to say. I've made shit money ($9k that didn't require me to pick up multiple textbooks.)

Don't fix it if it isn't beoken

Jul 27, 2017

And most people who are degrading me here are from elite schools and rich families. Can pick em out right now. That's not my case. They shouldn't be applying their anecdotal bullshit to me

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Jul 27, 2017
Pump and Dump:

And most people who are degrading me here are from elite schools and rich families. Can pick em out right now. That's not my case. They shouldn't be applying their anecdotal bullshit to me

Why are you on this site exactly?

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Jul 27, 2017

to get advice

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Jul 27, 2017
Pump and Dump:

to get advice

Haha, good one. +1

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Jul 27, 2017

Your comments are a breath of fresh air, Dick.

Jul 27, 2017

Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Mark Zuckerberg, John Mackey, all college dropouts.

If anything, the American dream is alive because of them.

    • 1
Jul 27, 2017

For those who don't want to waste 10 mins of your life, allow me to summarize:

-High school senior username @pumpanddump , purportedly "here for advice" begins spouting off the pitfalls of a college education to a bunch of current college students and college-educated professionals.

  • What started as droll puffery devolves into out and out dick measuring over the internet. All the participants should know that they being held in lower esteem for even having entered the fray.

@DickFuld>-@DickFuld comes in too late to save the thread, but his response was right on.

This is a contender for worst thread of the year. Threads like this make me embarrassed to visit this forum, and make me seriously consider deleting my account.

Jul 27, 2017

Thanks pal. I will not lie I felt like defending my argument but it did turn into a shitshow. I enjoyed this thread tO be honest.

Jul 27, 2017

Besides what's posted, the right combination of work you love, grit, and luck can count for more than a degree.

I've already stated this before, but there's a member of my extended family who was not enjoying college due to not feeling like they had any direction there. They went into their job full time, got promoted from being a teller, and over the course of the last two years has earned a series of promotions culiminating with becoming a branch supervisor.... they have higher ambitions (the kind of job typically filled by a finance student with a high GPA from a ranked school) that may well happen due to a good reputation with the particular regional bank's management.

Put that into perspective. This person is now clearing, without a degree, more income every year than most people with name brand schools without a science degree do (exceptions for jobs like being an IB analyst of course)...and got there in about half the time.

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Jul 27, 2017

You have an award-worthy username. Have a banana

Jul 27, 2017

Coincidentally, the person I'm writing this post about is the inspiration for the username: they have a Chihuahua with an extremely nasty attitude towards anyone who is not that person.

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Jul 27, 2017

@AndyLouis Can you archive this thread?

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Jul 28, 2017

As long as America is still at the top of the global food chain, the American Dream will be alive and well for anyone with a solid work ethic. Tons of guys in Middle America have little to no college, but they work as linesmen, electricians, HVAC repairmen, etc. Lots of my friends from high school are in these fields and they're doing quite well for themselves. Smart kids from the lower middle class can still make it to college, and tons of schools have scholarships for smart/poor kids. Paired with CC, and an affinity for ramen noodles, the American dream is still alive and well.

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Jul 28, 2017

There is a lot of survivorship bias and serendipity being overlooked in the anecdotal stories of plumbers making 200k as well as the allusions to the college drop-out technocrats like Zuck, and Co. They are living examples of the heights of American opportunity, but as with any data set the outliers are more of a distraction than an accurate depiction of it. I'd wager the further out the outlier the more uncontrollable factors beyond that person's influence shaped their course. At a certain point, intellect and work ethic became prerequisites and a smattering of timing, luck, and happenstance determine the resulting distribution of success.

I'm certainly not implying any and all success is attributed to blind luck nor am I discrediting personal achievement of any kind. But, there is a sense of inevitability in some of these posts that are striking. The truth is that for Americans without college degrees the economic reality is becoming increasingly dimmer. This an objective fact based on both declining income and declining demand for these workers. This doesn't mean not having a college-degree is a death sentence, but it's certainly an anchor that's becoming more limiting in the 21st century.

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Jul 28, 2017

I agree that outliers shouldn't be taken as the rule (I actually mentioned this above), but the economic prospects for non-college graduates are growing dimmer because they aren't opting to acquire skills in well paid fields that don't require a bachelor's degree. There are millions of unfilled jobs in manufacturing, for example, because there isn't the labor available with the requisite skill set.

In some ways, however, it's a Catch-22. The people intelligent enough at the age of 18 to understand that there are many really well paid career paths that don't require a college education are usually the ones who are "college material" and will be going to college anyway. Stupid people--or people who are poorly educated--don't understand that there are thousands of random jobs most people have never heard of that pay REALLY well and don't require a college degree, but that DO require additional training.

Jul 28, 2017

I don't think its a secret that we are ideologically opposed, but I think you post some of the most well-reasoned content on the site. I'd agree with all the above-- The only thing I'd add is that the education system is owed its fair share of blame for the shortfall in skills and capabilities. Particularly in inner cities where it utterly fails those who are the most dependent upon it. Secondary education should emphasize the ability to learn and think critically, but it should also have a responsibility to produce graduates that have a relevant, remunerative skill set. Double for those with no prospects of going on to additional levels of education.

Jul 28, 2017

This thread is so messy.

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Jul 27, 2017

This thread is a fucking disaster and I feel like a lesser human being for having tried to offer any advice. Brb I'm going to go cry

Jul 28, 2017

LMAO I saw you trying to get the poor kid to see the light. I am amazed at how he is still able to continue to make multiple accounts, moan about the same shit and manage to piss everyone off for the majority of this summer. Like who puts that kind of time and effort into trolling hahaha

    • 1
Jul 27, 2017

Aren't you a kid who pissing off bankers through LinkedIn when you haven't even taken relevant coursework? Move along pal.

    • 1
Jul 28, 2017

And aren't you a kid who's been making multiple accounts on an online forum to moan about going to a CC and how target students are privileged, ask the same nonsense questions and say things to purposely rustle the people on this site? Come on mate. Give it up. It's genuinely pathetic to see you get banned and then make three more accounts and talk to yourself on a thread. Sit down big guy.

Jul 27, 2017

What are you talking about? I'm going to college this upcoming Fall and I'm trying to find out what the next best career is. I don't deserve IB because I didn't do good on my SAT therefore I'm trying to seek the next best career. I haven't been complaining about target students, I generally think IB is for smart people who go to top schools and I'm not going to top school. I said that to Howard Hughes and was actually humble about him being smart and that IB is for people like him not me. Scroll up and read!

Jul 28, 2017

What's wrong with you? Serious question. What kind of person thinks that because they didn't do good on their SAT they can't go into IB? The SAT doesn't define one's life. Dude you've gotta be a troll. Fyi I did read the junkyard that is this thread now.

Jul 27, 2017

I've done some searches here and on different finance forums and they all told me that since I don't have top scores I cant go to target school. I mean I just want to make sure I can go into a career that I have a good chance at. They all said I have a .001% from a non-target. It's possible but in my case it's not since I'm not intelligent. I'm hard working but investment banks like intelligent people who are also hardworkers.

I don't blame God or my parents for my lack of intelligence, it's just a thing I have to live with and I want to pursue and career I can fit in to. That's all. Sorry if I came off as disrespectful I'm just having a stressed out week.

Jul 28, 2017

Yes and if you look at the success stories forum, there is plenty of people who have made it from a non-target. Just because you are going to a non-target doesn't mean you can't make it. Honestly (and this is what I've heard from people and alumni), if you just network your ass off, get relevant experience, get a high GPA you will be fine. Anything is possible. If you think that the majority of this site went to an Ivy (or Ivy-level school) and are all of a sudden rainmakers that's just being deluded. And if you think the majority of people on this site are geniuses then that is very untrue. They just have learned much about the industry over the years because they had the desire to do so. And this can be applied to any industry.

All you're doing is finding an excuse for your laziness by saying you aren't smart, you don't go to a target, etc. If you were really hard-working then you wouldn't be saying the bs you have been saying.

Jul 27, 2017

That's nice to hear. I mean I'm just going to do my best in college and see what happens. I'm not lazy btw I studied for my SAT by buying books and doing practice tests. I worked hard in my AP classes and passed the AP exams and got good averages but I see what you mean.

thanks

Jul 28, 2017

No you're lazy in the fact that you seemingly don't want to work hard enough to get to where you would like to get. And ok great, idc what your APs were. If you are taking APs and supposedly doing well then why are you going to a non-target?

Jul 27, 2017

I didn't get accepted into the semi-targets I applied to.

Jul 28, 2017

Sounds like a you problem.

Jul 27, 2017
Aug 4, 2017
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Jul 28, 2017