JP Morgan intern switching divisions
I am a front office summer intern at JPM, interested in switching business divisions after the summer from sales and trading to investment banking.
We all recently received an email stating that if we wanted to be considered we must complete a form and let our desk head know immediately. The deadline is July 12th, otherwise we will not be considered.
My concern is that if I do so, it will drastically reduce my odds of getting a return offer from the desk. This is because we are hired directly onto the desk. If I do not get an offer from investment banking, I am doubtful my desk is going to be psyched to give me a job as one of 1-3 FT analysts onto their desk knowing I tried and failed to get out. I do not blame them.
Does anyone have any advice? This seems like a horrible system for internal mobility.
Probably a good gut instinct.
Perhaps consider keeping quiet, and just applying to other banks? J.P. Morgan is strong in IBD, but not sure if it's worth risking your return offer (which you NEED in order to be considered elsewhere).
I heard the same thing a few times elsewhere, that you need to secure a FT offer from the place you interned in order to be seriously considered elsewhere. But any ideas exactly how the recruiters would know if you have an offer or not?
Why do you want to switch, do you have strong reasons ?
Because when you´re doing good in S&T you have more opportunities than in IB.
Where lies the strenth in your skills, mathematics,languages or analytics.
For IB (CF and M&A) you have to be a tough guy, for your clients you have to play the "sunshine man". Thats not easy for everybody.
Ask some seniors at JPM what they can tell you about their first years. Im sure somenone gives you well advice where to join and what to do for.
Ask yourself what workstyle you prefer. More stitting in front of computers or driving and flying, sleeping in hotels and dining a lot (which produces some stress)
Set some aims you want to reach or mind:
*I want to have --- hours of free time a week *I want the see some of my friends --- times a week *Its interesting to do --- on this day * I cant live without -----
First, its not about the money, its about your body and soul, you have to feel well. When you realize that your soul or body gives you the signal to stop you have to stop immediately.
Good Luck
Apply for IBD at other banks, and make sure your team at JP don't find out you're having doubts. Kill it there this summer and make sure you get that offer, because it will be great leverage for a IBD spot elsewhere. Make sure you get on to the fast track recruiting events at other banks for IBD.
i was in your shoes last summer but with different divisions--
honestly, the odds of internal mobility are fairly low even though the top performing interns with the most attractive resumes will get interviews across divisions. let your S&T desk know that they are your first choice, but phrase it that 'i would be an idiot not to consider [this division] in case there simply is not a spot with you guys'. everybody understands that you are looking out for yourself. i know they preach some stuff about 'you have to be committed to making the switch before you apply' but simply tell HR your desk has absolutely no idea about their hiring needs, and that you would like to remain at JPM if possible and make a contingent submission.
this way, provided you don't royally fuck up and survive the bloodbath, you get your S&T offer, and you can wave it in other people's faces during accelerated recruiting/FT switching. if you aren't able to make the S&T cut, i don't think you can successfully transition to IBD anyways.
on a brief aside, what are your reasons for switching to IBD? i personally never would have made the switch haha
In short, I feel as though the S&T side of the business is just less sustainble in some ways, and much more limiting, a very shaky combination for someone fresh out of undergrad. Flows are down substantially, and prop is being regulated out. Folks in the markets side are talking about layoffs and declining margins, not growth. That would be fine by me if options were available with the skillset I'd develop, but it seems once in S&T always in S&T. 2 years in banking really isn't so bad if it leaves you with a wealth of opportunities afterwards.
@ JPM, PM me if you want some advice, happy to see if I can help, you could even be beside me day to day already never know with these usernames.
It seems everyone has a consistent opinion, try to switch banks if I want to switch divisions. That seems disappointing, since JPM is a great firm and I had hoped to stay.
Does anyone there now or who worked there last summer have experience with switching divisions? Are they serious when they say if you don't apply by mid-July you won't be considered? What if I voice this desire at the end of the summer.
How about switching groups within IBD???
Have a buddy who interned in s&t at gs, just started ft in ibd, he had his ft offer after his summer internship. Its been done before...
It says specifically in the HR packet that applying to a different LOB will NOT impact your chances of getting an offer at your desk. Your sponsor will be the ONLY one in your group that knows that you are applying elsewhere. Don't be a retard and broadcast it.
JP Morgan actively WANTS you to apply for mobility during the summer, which is why we had that conference call and networking session last wednesday. In the words of my sponsor, they'd rather have you move over the summer than get back full-time and be constantly trying to move.
It may be harder at many firms, but at JPM mobility is extremely possible. People move all the time across divisions, I don't know anything at the SA level but it's pretty easy if you're full-time (I personally know 2-3 who have moved between Markets and IBD in the past year or two). Each group has both a junior and senior mobility chair whose job it is to deal with internal applicants; they're listed...on the intranet....somewhere (do a search, I forget where).
It's all contingent on your review. If you're not on an offer-track, you don't have a shot at moving. If you're a baller, a prolific value-adder who can do no wrong, they want you at JP Morgan where you're going to be happy and not move to another firm for a group that you like more.
ABSOLUTELY agree. JPMorgan is one of the most, if not THE most, mobility-friendly BB on the Street. I've seen people go from Ops to Trading, from Trading to IBD, from Sales to Strategy, from Ops to Strategy, from IBD to Strategy, even IBD to Trading at this firm. So you shouldn't even worry about switching divisions. The logic, is, as cubechimp touched on, that it's important to play to everyone's strengths and everyone's interests so that 1) we limit external hiring, which can be more costly, and 2) so that we encourage lifelong retention. For this reason, it's very easy to have a long-term career here-- if you're a top performer. Do well and network, and they'll let you go wherever you'd like.. they'd rather retain top talent than give you up to another BB.
Poor people at SocGen CIB and Deutsche Bank, no mobility there...
These are the sort of replies that can make this site great.; honest useful info from people in the industry.
So are the two of you saying that if I tell the intern sponsor on my desk that I want to switch to IBD, you believe they will keep it to themselves and not tell the other members of the desk? I guess I just found that hard to believe. I am also concerned about applying to investment banking and then not receiving an offer due to market conditions or what have you and then staying on my desk for full time with all of them knowing they were not my first choice. I know HR says it "will not affect" your offer, but again I have a hard time believing that, given the dynamics of the industry.
If you feel strongly about these ideas however, I will go ahead and voice my interests to my intern sponsor on the desk.
*cough HR
How's mobility at MS?
I worked at JP and we had people move from IBD to S&T on the energy side in the time I was there.
I would tread carefully. It's ok to subtly mention that you're interested in IBD, but make it clear that you want to be in S&T. There's going to be a million kids who will want a FT job at JPM next year, and they're going to give offers to people who clearly want the position. You can still apply for IBD, but make it clear you're interested in S&T.
If you only land a S&T offer at JPM, you can easily leverage that to land in the IBD at another BB. Even if you don't land a FT offer, the experience will still help you stand out as an applicant.
intern in S&T also right now. I talked to someone on my desk I trusted about this same thing. the intern sponsor is just some rando who they picked, I would not just arbitrarily put faith in that person's silence or interest in your future/well being
That makes sense... again, it just seems like a very poor method of running mobility, given we haven't even had our midsummer reviews yet, and they want preferences for FT within a week or you won't be considered for mobility.
HR's claim that your preference for IBD over S&T won't effect the offer decision is straight bullshit.
Be very wary of what hr tells you.
As NYCSA says, it's all contingent on how you approach your sponsor. If you seem ungrateful for your opportunity in Markets and uninterested in the work, you can be sure that trying to leave is going to look bad and impact your chances. If you approach it as as trying to pursue a range of opportunities, etc., then you're probably better off.
Make an effort to network outside your group--talk to the (JUNIOR) mobility chairs, anyone else you know in IBD--and try to build on your relationship with your sponsor conversationally so it's not a shock when you apply on July 11th. Also, wait for your midsummer review before you take any action--those are coming up next week for Markets. If you have an extremely positive review (a "1") then you'll be in good shape to talk about moving--JP Morgan would rather have you working for it in some role, than lose you to another firm.
JPM doesn't recruit full-time analysts out of college (they do hire some grads as interns and then move them to FT). They're FT pool is their interns, plus laterals from other firms. That's why mobility is highly encouraged, that and a belief that people should be doing what they want to be if they're working 16-18 hours a day.
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HR talks to each other across banks. Just ask Jeffery Chiang...
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