Just how powerful is the HBS brand?
I wanted to get the sense from eveyone of just how powerful the HBS brand really is. I read and hear many things such as:
- HBS can get you any job around the world.
- Allow you to easily raise capital for a start up venture
- The ability to easily get girls by just dropping the name. (Small excerpt from articel)
"In the Boston area, Harvard MBAs are considered the best possible catch for young women, and the so-called Harvard effect holds sway over the rest of the world as well. Trading on the HBS aura is known as “dropping the H-bomb,” and the HBSer on the prowl will find it an effective weapon on anyone from cocktail waitresses to Wellesley students to MBAs of lesser schools."
and many more!
What do you guys think? Is the HBS brand that powerful whereby any mention of the name will put you a significant advantage over another.
Can the same be said for Wharton and Stanford?
I work for a $10B revenue company and our new CEO is a 25 year old HBS graduate. The day that he started, everyone pretty much universally respected him outright for his Harvard degree and thought he was a god among men. Most of the C-suite is in their 40s and 50s and they went to schools like Kellogg and Tuck - they universally respect him because he is a Harvard grad and therefore superior to them. There is always buzz around the hallways about how smart he is.
It isn't as powerful as your post seems to imply. A lot of it depends on the circles you run in.
In a business environment, it is certainly respected. However, about 1/3 of the people I work with went to HBS. In this environment, it really loses its glamour. I'm sure if one of these people moved into a corporate role, they would gain a lot more "brownie points" or general respect.
In social settings, it matters much less. All girls are interested in "intelligent guys" (though in practice I don't always find this the case). Girls that are very career oriented may get more excited about it than others. Liberal Arts majors don't really care. I certainly wouldn't use it as a pick-up line.
A great anecdote to describe the HBS reach comes from an old co-worker of mine (who didn't go to HBS). He said: "My grandmother in Argentina knows what Harvard is, but she has no idea what Wharton is." Outside the U.S., Harvard definitely careers some pretty serious weight. It won't get you -any- job in the world, but it will certainly get you -a- job anywhere in the world.
patekphilippe, that is amazing, a 25 year old CEO running 10 Billion dollar company. That is really young. This is obvisoulsy a great example of where the HBS brand can take you.
Now what I don't get is how he was able to graduate at the age of 25 when the entering age is 24-25. Did he go straight to HBS from college?
Because patekphilippe's story is completely false.
Limited partner information for PE funds always has the bios of fund managers. From my experience it seems that the majority of fund managers at the elite PE firms went to HBS. Their are plenty of fund managers from other top schools, but HBS is the name I would see the most.
Go look at the executive profiles of the top dogs at the bulge bracket banks. Very few of them come from H/S/W. They are all hard-working guys who rose up from the bottom and gritted it out - likely because they had no sense of entitlement.
alabinjo, i think you missed the fact that patek's first post was sarcasM?
If you're worth it people will respect you, otherwise you're just another Harvard asshole. I mean not only are you an MBA but you're Ivy League + Harvard...It just signals epic tool.
It would be extra useful when you're trying to pick up drunk and really dumb chicks in clubs, or trying to impress grandmas and taxi drivers and your neighbor and what not.
Otherwise, it's well respected but not so much above other top schools.
There are lots of smart and successful ppl at HBS, but there are also a lot of very average ppl. A McKinsey partner whos hires ppl personally said that due to HBS effort to diverify, they accept a lot of mediocre folks (with unique backgrounds) nowadays.
http://www.thebullpenreport.com/?p=50
With Six-Party Talks Stalled, President and HBS Alum George Bush Decides to Drop H-Bomb on Kim Jong Il
Washington, D.C. – With the Six-Party Talks on recess after thirteen days of diplomatic negotiations failed to reach any compromise on North Korea’s nuclear program, United States President and Harvard Business School alum George Bush made the difficult decision Monday to drop the H-Bomb on North Korea’s Kim Jong Il. As would be expected, Kim immediately announced he is ceasing all nuclear activities, now that he knows Bush went to Harvard.
According to a White House spokesman, “On Monday, President Bush decided to drop the H-Bomb on Kim and North Korea. It took the President until Tuesday to actually get through to Kim as Bush did not have his contact information in Plaxo, his pre-paid Asia calling card needed to be recharged, and Kim’s line was busy most of the night while the Dictator voted repeatedly for Deanna on Rock Star:Inxs.”
President Bush described his historic conversation:
“When I finally got that little spikey-haired sonofagun on the phone, I said to him, ‘Il, this is Bush, the President of the United States of America. ’He told me he had Iran on the other line and asked if I could call back later. I told him ‘Listen here Il, this’ll be quick. This whole Six Nations thing ain’t working. I’ve got a better idea to solve this problem. ’Before ol’ Il could respond, I dropped the bomb and said, ‘When I was at Harvard Business School I took a class on conflict resolution…”
“Before I could continue, Il said ‘You went to HBS? ’And I was like, ‘You know it, class of ’75.’ Then there was silence. After a good two minutes, Il asked if he could call me back. Next thing you know my man [Asst. Secretary of State] Chris Hill is on the phone with Il and Il was begging for a deal.”
Global political leaders had mixed emotions about the H-Bomb decision. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, allegedly “loved” the idea, especially since the decision was made “unilaterally and before Congress returns to session in September.”
Russian President Vladimir Putin, however, was outraged. “This is a dangerous precedent to set. Dropping such an obnoxious bit of information about oneself threatens to turn global diplomacy into a foam party at Spring Break where H-bombs are dropped all over the place,” said an irate Putin.
Bush’s use of the H-Bomb is not the first time that an American President has used the Harvard name to seal a deal. According to political analyst and H-Bomb Historian Jerry Fencik, “Seven presidents have graduated from Harvard, but to my knowledge, only President Kennedy ever dared to utter the ‘H’ word to impress someone while in the Oval Office.”
“And Kennedy didn’t even drop it to influence a global political decision. He merely used it to pick up a hot Bavarian waitress in lederhosen after his ‘Ich bin ein Berliner’ speech in 1963.”
The Six-Party Talks are multi-lateral negotiations between the U.S., China, Japan, Russia and the two Koreas. They are currently taking place in Beijing. The H-Bomb occurs when a Harvard grad tells people that he went to Harvard, despite the situation requiring no information about academic credentials whatsoever. The H-Bomb is most commonly dropped during moments of extreme insecurity, like ten-year high school reunions.
Excellence.
Is HBS Losing Prestige?!?!??! (Originally Posted: 04/04/2013)
If Brady is still alive, now is the time to defend the motherland!
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/05/what-graduating-harvard-mb…
http://www.ibtimes.com/stanford-mbas-get-paid-most-harvard-grads-see-bi…
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-03-20/notre-dame-tops-list-of…
The first article is not really relevant, as Harvard has no undergraduate business program.
Every single person I know in banking, PE, consulting, etc. who is interested in business school has said that they would choose HBS over any other business school other than Stanford (seems 50/50 with a bias towards HBS depending on interest, location, etc.). Have not heard of anyone turning down HBS for Wharton, etc. (though I'm sure it does happen, just not frequently)
I would choose Harvard over Stanford, but only because I like cold weather and think Californians are actually from outer space.
(I'm applying to business school this fall, and I will not actually be making this decision.)
HBS it is.
I think it is losing a little bit of prestige. Not to other business schools necessarily, but to people who never have to attend in the first place. Which guy is more impressive?
A. Gets every promotion and lateral position he wants, does not need to attend business school B. Hits a wall and has to go to Harvard to restart his career
Person A is more impressive in my book and it probably is to most people hiring who know the game.
How often is that actually a decision? I'm struggling to think of a person who would "hit a wall" and then just HAVE to go to Harvard Business School. I would think this person is successful enough if their own right if they are HBS material and simply uses Harvard to suppliment that success...
I'd choose Stanford over HBS just because it'd be a dream to work for PIMCO in Newport Beach. Besides that, no other place offers the things HBS does.
I can't believe this is a serious thread hahaha. It was just a reaction to another Monkeying Around thread trying to lure Brady's alt account out.
How much more would you pay to attend HBS? (Originally Posted: 11/10/2011)
When discussing top b-schools, many people use phrases like "top 5" or "top 10" or "M7" - and most people would be excited to attend any of these schools.
However, in finance, and in PE in particular, there seems to be a huge bias towards HBS and Stanford. Meaning, many PE guys will ONLY consider attending HBS, Stanford, and MAYBE Wharton (Wharton being their fall-back option).
So my question is, how much MORE would you be willing to pay to attend HBS or Stanford vs. other top schools?
E.g., business school costs ~$100k in tuition. Opportunity cost and living expenses are +/- the same for all schools, so are irrelevant. Let's say you are admitted to HBS and Wharton, but Wharton offered you a full-ride. Would you still attend HBS?
Or let's say Stanford increased their tuition to ~$200k all-in. You get into Stanford and UChicago, but UChicago offers you a full-ride. Would you pay the $200k to go to Stanford?
What premium would you place on HBS and Stanford relative to other top schools?
about three fiddy
$100k more to attend HBS/Stanford over Chicago? I'd probably take it, but it would be close to my maximum. Not particularly interested in PE though, so maybe that's a factor. Plenty of people from chicago or other MBA business schools ">m7 schools make more than HBS/Stan grads though so its not like its the sure-thing ultimate advantage.
I think the normal idea is that as long as you/your parents donate a mil, you're good.
Personally, I'd pay an incremental $250k to go to HBS/Stanford over a school outside the MBA business schools ">M7.
I would gladly pay $500K more for HBS than another top school like Booth. Heck, probably even more than that.
An EXCELLENT question. I wont get into GSB/HBS so I don't think about it much.
There was a similar thread earlier with a guy who was choosing betweeen Columbia with no scholarships or NYU Stern full ride. I think the general consensus was to go with the cheaper school.
I'm sure that most people on this site would opt for HBS despite the huge discount, judging that most people here are prestige whores. I would choose HBS as well, even if it means forking out more than $500k, because the brand name lasts with you a lifetime and you get access to virtually any job in finance with solid grades.
Till today, my mentor is being referred by others as 'the guy who went to HBS'. Sure, he worked at McKinsey, but people still remember him as the 'HBS guy'. Now that's something money can't buy.
I agree entirely. The prestige of HBS is something that cannot be bought. Everyone in the world knows Harvard, and the name brand and network will serve you quite well. Furthermore, the social experience of HBS is easily the best 2 years of one's life, something that cannot be replicated by money.
If you would pay $500k for HBS you are fucking retarded plain and simple.
I'm never sure if Brady is kidding or not. Either he is really really funny or really really loves Harvard.
I am firmly in the anti-bschool camp, but HBS/GSB are the only ones I would shell out for...still a stretch, but the costs are worth it.
However, Wharton's EMBA is looking really good. If I am not forced to go to business school early, I might go that route. Not having to leave the work force for two years is a major plus.
jw at Stanford, how tight are the MBA and CS students? Would be pretty baller to be a CFO of a successful start-up.
$500k for HBS? Are you kidding me? Honestly, getting into Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth or any other top b school is a great achievement anyway. Granted Harvard is better than Booth but I am certain there is a job out there would be equally impressed that you gained a full ride from a top business school, I know I would be, especially considering that it is so rare.
I know the question is hypothetical but it has absolutely no chance of ever occurring.
Plus, if I had $500k, I would try my hand at entrepreneurship. If successful, there's a premium right there.
Full ride, debt free is the way to be
Interesting, then its probably closer to ten. Good to know.
This is a stupid discussion. Its like comparing whether a porsche is better than a lambo.
so people who are currently there and maybe 20% through life already know that it's the best two years of their life? k
hmm... that extra cost for hbs.. isnt it all about roi for b-school? that's a lot of ground to make up. If you're all about the name/prestige then sure go for it, but if you if you hit the ground running/kicking/screaming out of a cheaper b-school, you will (or should in a perfect world) go a lot farther than one who just depends on the school-name on his/her diploma.
Sb's to the hiring managers out there that look past one's school listed on the resume and instead look at his/her accomplishments/record/activities/personality/uniqueness instead. I have and will continue to do so.
+1 for you dude
Don't get me wrong, HBS is excellent and all, but at the end of the day when you meet a guy who didn't go to HBS that makes more then you, and has better connections then you; your a fool. I don't care how much prestige you have (post HBS), you still look like a muppet.
At the end of the day its a smash and grab operation. You get in and hope to leave early with your hair,physic and money. That's the end goal. Nothing more nothing less. I like this industry as much as the next guy, but its a job at the end of the day.
On a side note..
Finance is overly saturated now and to streamlined, that entrepreneurial aspect is dwindling away and people are just going through the motions. I suspect you will see this become more clear over the next 5 years as shops start to loose some of there stars (due to lower pay, restricted bonuses etc). GS/MS/DB will remain powerhouses along with some of the other BB's, the mid market shops will reduce there IB side or close it down all together since they won't be able to compete. (That's my opinion)
The question now becomes what industry are those people going to? Where is the opportunity?
I agree more or less with your last paragraph. Finance has gotten very saturated. Students I know at top b-schools are pretty concerned about the finance job market. I think banking, at least at the BB's, should be ok for the foreseeable future since mergers and IPO's are still going on at a healthy pace. Sales&trading, however, is being taken over by math/CS phd quants, and those desk are hiring very few mba's.
The finance rockstars continue to pursue buyside opportunities: PE, HF, IM. But as you very well know, those jobs are hard to get, regardless of what school you're at.
honestly, i think it all depends on your background. if you went harvard/princeton/stanford undergrad, i think you can get away with going to a lesser b-school. that said, if you went to non-target undergrad, you definitely need the brand name on your resume so paying a premium for HBS/GSB is worth it.
it gets tricky when you are trying to figure out what that cost is. i'm actually deciding whether or not to go to b-schools right now. for me, i've been saying that i need to make up all costs (tuition + living expenses + loss of salary) within 3 to 5 years of graduation. say you are associate at a PE firm, 4 years out of undergrad:
tuition - $100k living expenses - $100k loss of salary - conservatively $250k/year so $500k total
total b school cost - $700k
what is trajectory with and without b-school for the 5 years after?
without - $250k, $275k, $300k, bump up $500k, $550k with - $300k, bump up 2 years earlier $500k, $550, $600k, another bump up to $1mm?
above is my best guess and would welcome challenges/comments but in this scenario, we're pulling in ~$1mm more making b-school worth it.
getting back to original question, i'd probably pay $300k premium to go to HBS/GSB to ensure i'm on the better trajectory.
I'm personally not trying to get into PE (so maybe I don't belong in this thread, but whatev), so fuck no I wouldn't go $160k in debt for HBS over a free motherfucking ride at Wharton.
I'm not going to pretend like I'll ever have the credentials to get into HBS. That being said, my goal in life is to become known as more than just "the guy who went to [insert ultra-prestigious university]".
The fuck?
brady, if sucking cocks was the only way you could get into HBS, how many would you be willing to suck in order to improve your chances?
I would just go to Stanford. If Stanford is not an alternate choice, then I would just go to a different top 10. I do not care as long as the school I go to still impresses people...maybe Columbia or Haas.
Brady would have not limit on the cocks he would suck to get into HBS.
at the end of the day you're buying a brand and lifetime affiliation, but that brand is only as strong as the rest of your makeup. HBS on your resume might get you an interview over someone else, all else being equal, but you still need to have achievements and be able to perform like Andy said. you can be "that shitbag from HBS who can't do basic math"
b-school is a great time, but you still gotta put in the work to develop the professional connections. $100,000+ more in debt is quite a bit to take on and one that only a few jobs will allow, so there goes career mobility and freedom of action.
500k is an ungodly amount to essentially learn stuff you will most likely have already learned on the job or is available online. Think about it this way... assuming you can get 8% on 500k, that is the mortgage/rent on a decent home + a lease on an M3 for life Vs. Adding yourself to the HBS group on linkedin.
Going to Kellogg, I'd probably be willing to spend around $50k more for HBS.
How has HBS changed since the 1980's? (Originally Posted: 03/28/2013)
Is it mostly more mathematized?
Meh, pretty weak. Gotta try harder.
THey have not changed, they are old fashioned and not up with modern times. LBS, Columbia, Kellogg, Insead all offer 1 year programs and HBS refuses, let's see how long they can refuse in these times the appetite for a MBA is weak..
I heard they still don't have electricity. Everything is done by candlelight.
I'm not trolling. BTW how is HBS different than UW recurring or otherwise?
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