Many of you are smart, so why choose business over medical school?
Why not go to medical school if you have a high gpa, and take the pre reqs online or through summer school. Why not go to medical school?
Apart of me thinks it would be so cool to be a physician
-saving lives
-bringing people back from the brink of death (Emergency med)
-very rewarding
The only thing about medical school that turns me off is the long wait for the ROI, and all the boring course work to get into it (biochem, ochem, etc etc)
Oh a doctor v. banker debate? I'm sure we will discuss things that haven't been stated and restated 100 times before on WSO.
Long wait & lots of debt to start making similar money and I'm not really a science person.
Everyone's answer is different, but I actually started as a biochem major in undergrad with a business minor. I put up with it the first 2 years before switching to finance. Pretty much for the same reason as SEC finance above. Plus I realized I like science, but love finance. But if I ever get bored with this, I'll shoot for med school. Already took ochem and bio, so I'm almost done with prereq's.
I frankly am not interested helping people medically. We have far too many humans to begin with.
Furthermore, the majority of doctors are going all ER on shit, saving lives. It is general practitioner type crap. Coughs, cold, dealing with insurance. Crying, miserable babies. People who wont go on a diet, quit smoking, stop banging hooker tranny's. All simple shit.
If you actually want to help people, be a nurse.
To do medicine , you need passion! You can't go through it if you dont have it! A high GPA doesnt mean you will succeed in that field
Why the FUCK would anybody on here want to be a doctor? Where does this doctor shit keep coming from??
After watching my father go from loving being a doctor to hate it in a span of 8 years....I took his advice and decided not to go to medicine (was biomed engineering/finance w/ >3.8 GPA). Happy with the choice since lots of debt and long hours with no real money till your at least 30
Finance is the best medium (for me) which promotes a decent amount of knowledge in all fields. Esp ER and such because of what you learn about other fields of business through a removed, objective analysis
Because damn it feels good to be a banker
I suspect that the answer for most people on this board is that they are interested in finance, not medicine. Being intelligent isn't in and of itself a reason to do anything.
+1
earning potential as an average senior banker > earning potential as an average doctor
As others have said, it doesn't make a lot of financial sense. You don't start making money until around age 30, and have 200k in debt.
And doctors face an enormous amount of regulation and growing wage pressure. Managed care organizations are becoming increasingly popular, and those doctors make a fraction of what private physicians did back in the early 1990s. The industry is under incredible pressure to lower costs. Medicare/medicaid patients are rarely even break even ventures.
You might say, "become a plastic surgeon and only take private payments" or "become a neurosurgeon".
The former option has occurred to almost every medical student, and has driven down prices. Dermatology is the same. Those private pay doctors also now have to compete with medical tourism in SE Asia and LatAm.
Going into a top specialty (some surgery specialties, radiology, etc) is a gamble. You are betting that you will be within the top 10% of graduating medical students. It's a crapshoot. I'm smart, but I am not sure I am that smart. It's like using KKR as the baseline for evaluating finance salaries.
The default career in medicine, making 150k as a general practitioner, sounds like hell. Dealing with insurance, people coming in with colds/stds/high blood pressure, facing competition from nurse practitioners...it sounds miserable.
And remember where you are working. Either a hospital or doctor's office. I hate both, and avoid them when possible. And you probably won't be working at a hospital like the one on "House". To find jobs, a lot of doctors have to move to rural/underserved areas. Hope you like Appalachia.
I agree with everything in your post, but to be fair, this is even more true in finance.
here's a fun one: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/im-a-doctor-and-im-better-than-ba…
also relevant: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/banker-careerlifestylenot-all-tha…
thanks for those links, some good reads.
For everyone else I just asked because tbh i am a little confused about the choices. I am obviously stronger in my business courses than my science but that doesn't mean i can't be a good doctor. I am a 3rd yr undergrad and am honestly curious.
Perhaps it's a bit cynical, but nobody profits more off of human dismay than doctors.
I have no interest in sticking my finger in another person's butt.
That's gross man. To each their own I guess :-p
You stick your finger in turkeys butt already. It's the same thing.
Jeez this topic has been beaten to death lol, and the reasons should be quite obvious to the OP as to why finance is preferable to being a doctor for many.
Just my take, but I don't know very many pre-meds going into medicine because they "want to help people." Like TNA said, if you wanna do that, be a nurse. In reality, medicine has the same appeal as banking: ticket to the upper class, prestigious, blah blah blah. Difference is that it's open to more people and a safer career, long-term (pluses), but it takes a shitload of debt and time to get there (minuses).
I liked science as a kid and kicked ass in AP Bio and shit in high school. But four years of pre-med sounded shitty, especially at my school. Never really went to a doctor's office and thought 'damn, I wanna do that.' Plus I think finance is conceptually interesting. ("What's the "true" value of this asset?" "Is there a market for this company?" "What's this industry going to be like four years from now?" that sort of thing). And it's competitive (you're 'winning' deals).
Dentistry seems like a sick job. There's no residency required and you make 120k out of dental school. There's also no insurance bullshit to deal with also as most procedures are cash only. Residencies are shorter too, typically two the three years. Only downside is that you have to look at people's mouth all day...
Know lots of Doctors all said stay away from med school.
Ant your comparison is a bit unfair, you'd need to compare normal doctor to back office and heart surgeon to HF/pe.
This isn't doctoroasis.com.
Simple answer: I don't deal with blood and guts well.
For those in college now, why in the hell would you want to go to medical school today with Obamacare? We're evolving into a system where the typical doctor will make maybe the equivalent of $150,000/year today after spending 12 years between 18 and 30 in school accruing debt. I have a ton of clients here in the D.C. area and the intelligent ones are making over $100,000/year by the age of 30 without accruing a lifetime of debt.
Models & Bottles, brah
Went through this decision and chose finance because I was better at it, but I would encourage you to commit to one. Because I tried to balance med school admissions (shadowing, intense courses, etc.) with how competitive finance is, I ended up not becoming as good a fit for either. I ended up with a solid ibd gig but feel if I could have focused I would have had a shot at bx, ghl, evr etc.
While I enjoy finance and feel I made the right choice, I really miss the feeling of being able to help people and make a difference. Executing a sale/buyside process just does not give you that. That is why you become a doctor, and, as you will realize in your analyst years, is worth quite a lot more than money.
Ideally you need both though (money and feeling that you made a difference) and becoming a doctor could make you hate helping people since that becomes your job. That is the wild card.
You can tell that my orthopedic surgeon has a pretty low opinion of humanity after 25 years in the business. :)
According to a recent study, 60% of doctors would quit today if they could.
Read this if you are thinking about becoming a doctor: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2012/10/survey-60-of-doctors…
"But more vexing than anything is that you realize that the pansy actually looks happy to be going to work. “What the heck? Who likes going to work?” you contemplate, confused. “Did I make the wrong decision going into finance?” You pause and ponder, glad Brick Breaker gives you a short respite between lives. After a moment of deep reflection, you nearly burst out loud laughing at your idiocy, tickled silly by the image of yourself living on $35,000 a year in some outer borough with minorities. You collect yourself, reasserted, brush off your pants and fondly pinch-sharpen the creases, and make a mental note to send your impeccable resume to Ogilvy & Mather (just so you can reject them)." - Leveraged Sellout "Brick Break My Heart"
That's a misrepresentation of the study. I'd imagine >50% of laborers in ANY industry would like to retire if they could.
It didn't ask them if they'd like to switch trades, but if they'd like to RETIRE.
Ah the good old doctor debate. It's like masturbating, sure you feel good about yourself during, but after when you finish you just end up with a glob of milky substance in your hand. Much like being a doctor, you feel great saving people but you will be destined for an upper middle class or low upper class life. At least with banking you are destined for a low upper class to mid upper class life.
Honestly? Don't much care for people.
Everyone on my Mom's side are doctors. On my Dad's side they all work at BB. My mom said she wanted at least one doctor in the family. Thank god my sister took care of that first so I could go the finance route.
Cool story bro. So prestigious!
Some doctors have figured out a career that, to me, looks like the best thing going; high volumes of big surgeries and big pay. What could be cooler than showing up every day to do major surgery? Beats sitting at a desk. Compare that to all the Wall Streeters you now know who are un- or under employed mid-career. Many of them are now likely wishing they had gone medical.
But, passion wins the game. Go with your passion.
delete
doctors have a similar career trajectory of someone in PWM:
4 years of school/rotations (doing something other than practicing) getting ready for the business 4 years of being a pledge (resident), seems similar to rookie broker, hellacious hours, not a lot of money, but just more job security ? years of making really good money with good lifestyle
I chose not to do medicine because I never cared for science, I just didn't have great teachers early on so my interest was never there. when I got to college, I lived with a pre med guy for 2 years, and all of the stuff he had to do simply didn't interest me.
on top of all of that, malpractice insurance, obamacare, the stress of literally having someone's life in your hands (friends are either internists, ICU, or surgeons so they actually have to deal with life/death situations), and so forth just doesn't appeal to me. I suppose if you were a radiologist, the risk of malpractice is low and if you were a ortho/cardio/neuro guy, you make a crapload of money for not a lot of hours, but the risk of malpractice is astronomical.
I respect the hell out of doctors but I think you need to be a certain type of crazy to want to do it, just like you need to be a certain kind of crazy to be a stockbroker.
What's so crazy about stockbrokers?
don't get me started
Doctors, make a lot of money yes. But in reality they are no different than a broker. They make money when they actually do the work. Most bankers don't make it to the top spots at the banks they started at. I would argue that most don't even want to. The best of the bankers put in their time in IB then maybe PE of HF then get out of that to go and start their own company. Until you make your capital and the labors of others maximize your possible returns you are likely to always be working for a living,
At least finance professionals are not pretending they are not in their line of work for the money. Financiers are often depicted as non-value adding greedy middle-men but I find something refreshing about their motives being very clear.
amen brother. if they really believed they weren't in it for the money they'd go to Sudan and do pro bono work for Unicef or the Red Cross full time.
also, I don't know that I'd respect someone's opinion if they thought they were on a social mission and talking to me about investments. I think passion about what you do is important, but there's nothing wrong with being motivated by money.
That's completely asinine. If every doctor did that there'd be nobody left here to take your kid's tonsils out. And in any case, you're saying there's more moral value to working for DWB than treating cancer or doing heart surgery in Manhattan, which is just wrong.
Oh, those doctors, they make me so mad, helping people and earning decent money!
I don't think any doctors are pretending they don't care at all about the money. And I haven't met many doctors who blather on about their moral superiority, either. It's not like being a doctor is a get-rich-quick scheme. Go to school and intern for 10 years and you'll start pulling in 250k. Yup, what a bunch of transparently greedy bastards.
But regardless, how do you explain all the pro-bono work they do?
I understand what you're saying. I guess I just don't appreciate the media portrayal of bankers being greedy and self serving while doctors are heroes. Both are doing an important job and being compensated handsomely. IMO, you're not Mother Teresa just because you perform surgeries instead of coordinate mergers.
I wouldn't be able to do it, I would suffer compassion fatigue like @LuckyCharms said. Losing people or questioning my decisions in a surgery or ER role would really effect me. Too much personal reflection for me. Right now, if I make a wrong call, its on me, or the company, and is just financial.
My buddy flies in the medical helicopter for a large hospital and loses people almost daily due to the extent of their injuries, I dont think I could do what he does for even a day.
I have always been sure that people who actually become doctors, are meant to be doctors. It's not only about brain capacity. I've got brilliant friends who can't seem to got into med school despite their excellent academic record.
On the other side, I think business is all about learning and experience. Even doctors could make their practice a profitable business after given a bit (or a considerable amount) of business lessons.
All in all, maybe it's just about passion. Maybe.
Because finance smart and doctor smart aren't necessarily the same thing.
The real reason not to go into medicine (My dad is a doctor and gives me this speech once a week...) is because doctors are getting slammed by the government. Not only is it a high initial cost to be one (huge expense to go to school, plus the opportunity cost of like 8 years of your life), but the profitability level of being a doctor is shrinking by the day.
My dad is a specialist surgeon and runs his own practice. Since Obamacare, the bad as gotten worse. With more and more people switching to government-related care, and with more and more regulations that insurance companies have to keep up with, reimbursement rates are plummeting. Pair that with Hospital buying power going up, and you realize that all the money is going to the hospitals. My dad has 20+ years of experience in his field and he makes like $250 on a tonsillectomy (remove the tonsils) surgery, but the hospital makes THOUSANDS. This is not a procedure that costs the hospital much at all. And to give some perspective on government reimbursement, if my dad saw a medicare patient, he would make less than 60% of what he could make on a patient with the same problem who had private insurance. So obviously, the money side of the doctor equation is not nearly as good as it once was, and getting worse.
The other thing people don't realize is how much most doctors work. There are certainly some cushy areas of medicine (anesthesiology, primary care) but in general, a specialist works investment banker hours. When I lived at home in High School I would go days without seeing my dad, because he would work so late, and then be back so early. Largely due to the huge time-suck electronic medical records cause on specialists. He is now required by law to use these systems, and they just aren't good for anything other than primary care.
To summarize: Being a doctor doesn't pay what it used to; the hours suck; and the stress level is high. Oh plus the potential to fuck up and get sued.
Overall, a pretty good post. You are a bit off on primary care. Primary care docs are basically paid like nurses these days, but they still have the med school capital overhang. The value of the EMR is massively overstated for virtually all docs. It's really only valuable in chronic disease management.
Didn't care to read every post.
My reason; Saw enough death in my military days and no interest in the medical profession outside of first aid.
Because I'm 33, have no debt (instead, I have 2-3 years of earnings saved) and make more than all but a small fraction of doctors at the peak of their careers.
Damn it feels good to be a banker...
Just as a point of reference, a friend of my best friend went to a Caribbean medical school and became a general practitioner. He and his girlfriend are both newly minted post-residency MDs out of the same Caribbean med school working at hospitals as general practitioners in the DC area and both are making about $250,000/year. Not bad at all.
Labore deserunt magni fuga consequatur. Enim aliquam quibusdam enim nam quidem.
Sequi et eos nobis nulla nemo. Aspernatur nesciunt hic nisi vero. Beatae id magni qui odit.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Et aut ad consectetur dolore voluptas sint accusantium tenetur. Aut sint nostrum ut. Dolor ipsam eligendi excepturi sapiente quae occaecati. Quia sed unde enim vel et eaque voluptas.
In ut et ut aut. Qui animi occaecati eum. Voluptatem voluptas dicta non error modi facilis voluptatem inventore.
Temporibus laborum aut totam cum tempore. Ipsam vel reiciendis sit rerum quas libero qui.
Laborum iste earum saepe. Quia molestiae qui adipisci et.
Optio sint qui distinctio iure qui. Perferendis consequatur omnis quasi. Numquam quisquam id aut quod facere sint. Neque reprehenderit quia placeat vel minus commodi minus. Molestiae quibusdam ducimus fuga sed dignissimos explicabo sequi.
Ut nobis possimus quo quas. Exercitationem dolor est at soluta maxime cumque. Voluptas voluptas voluptas nemo pariatur et. Nisi similique repudiandae ut iusto quia et aut. Commodi amet magnam unde corporis totam nihil. Qui sit placeat architecto nihil sit voluptatibus.
Dolor omnis laborum id aut. Provident distinctio consequuntur ut nulla sed. Quasi molestiae nesciunt ratione sunt mollitia dolore exercitationem. Deleniti in tempore voluptate nisi corrupti provident non minima.