Apr 22, 2020
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Any idea what will happen for undergrad summer interns?
Same situation with full pay for the whole summer regardless of internship duration.
Havent heard anything back either. My recruiter told me they should have a say this week.
Confirmed. Received a phone call from my recruiter
Incoming McK summer (undergrad) in a large MENA office. HR emailed today requesting legal docs for onboarding; however, no mention of any FT offers (I didn't ask either) or change in duration of the internship & pay.
Were you recruited out of the US? Also when is your start date?
I’m an incoming FT BA McK for a MENA office, and also have got nothing pushed back yet/received no word on any changes.
Bain has told interns that they will not be cancelling, but their program is virtual. They are NOT saying anything about full time offers.
Any guesses as to whether this would force Bain/BCG's hand?
Bain already released their plans for a virtual summer after McKinsey with no mention of giving full time jobs, so that opens the door to BCG also not doing it.
Thank you to the BCG intern who just threw that MS
Hmmm will be interesting to see what BCG does; from a purely competitive point of view, feels like there's very little reason not to do what McK did because: 1) They usually give 90-95% return offers anyway; giving 100% doesn't feel like a huge deal, especially given that the internships will now be virtual and they may need to give more anyway. 2) Not doing what McK did imposes risk of current interns leaving for McK or being less likely to take return offers.
3) MBB are directly competing - Bain's perception in comparison to McK will doubtlessly suffer due to this decision; as someone who decided between MBBs a distinction between how the firms treated employees during this crisis would almost certainly influence my decision would I need to make it again.
As for why Bain did what it did, they announced the same day as McK - with the decision made before they heard what McK was doing. That's a different situation to be in than BCG who will certianly know what McK and Bain did. Moreover, I wouldn't be so sure Bain will not shift to include the caveats that the internship is opt-in and/or that full-time offers are guaranteed, especially given the risk that BCG/McK both make it such
I think you’re exaggerating. In this environment, when many firms give out automatic FT offers, it can become very easy to feel entitled to it like it’s some sort of compensation for the stress everyone is undoubtedly having during such a crisis. But you should look at it more sober.
I guess most firms give out automatic FT offers because either: - it’s very hard for interns to work remotely (for instance, IB where, e.g., it is crucial that you have stable access to databases like Bloomberg, FactSet etc. which is difficult when WFH); or - much of the project pipeline has dried out or is uncertain, so there is no choice but to cancel internships and give out FT offers
I assume you are at either Bain or BCG given your comment. Think about it this way. These are companies that typically do their very best to make interns happy. If they switch to virtual and do not give the automatic option to not attend/get FT offer, they will have thought about this very hard—
Consulting is an industry where it is (comparably) easy to switch to WFH. Also, I assume that MBB don’t have any issues with not finding a project for their interns. Why would it warrant an automatic FT offer if the above-mentioned reasons do not apply and you could easily do the same work as pre-COVID from home? You will certainly get the same infrastructure, mobile internet plan, compensation, etc. And I’m 100% sure if there’s any other issue (e.g., you have to care about sick family, you live in a rural area with no connection at all, etc.) you’d just have to call them and they’ll find a solution for you.
If I were you, I would be see the positive aspects in this. For instance, Bain is known for their intense scrutiny of cultural fit. In that way, I can understand that they don’t give out automatic FT offers because, even if ultimately 90% get return offers anyway, cultural fit is something you can only test with personal interaction—and I think it would be really positive for you (if you’re at Bain) and the firm, if you end up working there knowing that almost everyone at Bain ended up there because they enjoyed working with each other. And perhaps it’s a good learning experience as well to WFH; for all we know, there might be more waves of this darn virus coming.
Look, I don’t know why McK chose to give out automatic FT offers / optional internship. I also don’t know why Bain chose to go ahead with virtual internship. I don’t even know whether both are true. But I’m pretty sure that this decision does not justify saying that one firm cares for their employees more than another.
Also do keep in mind that automatically hiring ~10% more this summer means that you also have to get rid of that excess capacity somewhere else, and I bet that this will happen also through firing existing low performers and not only through decreasing direct FT hires this fall. So, even perhaps rather small in case of MBB, there is a trade-off whether you want to assuage current employees that they’ll not be laid off during a crisis, or interns that they’ll be hired.
You make some strong points but I think there are a few dimensions on which I'm not sure I agree with your analysis: I'd love to hear your thoughts because it's clear you have insight.
I don't think the two reasons you mentioned, 1. Much of the project pipeline drying out and 2. It being very hard for interns to work remotely are the only reasons that automatic FT offers are the only ones: I think there's many other reasons, including first and foremost, 1. increased difficulty in providing a great experience (i.e. McK can't do intern training in CA, BCG can't do sick dinners/ intern retreats, etc). that make it harder for the firms to sell themselves - as you indicated, this is crucial to the firms 2. increased difficulty in onboarding 3. increased difficulty in evaluating interns 4. increased difficulty in finding cultural fit (both for interns and for fulltime employees) and yes 5. competitive dynamics - there's no doubt that Bain interns must feel a little bit cheated in comarison to McK interns - for MBB these competitive dynamics doubtlessly matter.
There are many more reasons and probably even more compelling reasons than the 5 that came immediately to mind, but all this is to say that there are many other reasons to give guaranteed FT.
As for some of your other points, particularly around the tradeoff between fullime employees and interns, I think there's a third category here we aren't considering, i.e. fulltime hiring. Given that the ratio of interns:fulltime hires: current analysts is probably somewhere in the range of 1:1.5:5, a delta of what is at most 10% in terms of interns who have fulltime offers who otherwise would not only really requires a reduction of 3% in the other categories - doesn't feel like a huge deal to me. That's not even to mention that I would assume that given internships are remote, more interns than normal will be given fulltime offers anyway. And furthermore, that all these analsysts are super cheap to begin with so who is to say that MBB would need to axe anyone anyway. I doubt the 5%, if that, influx in BAs and Associates at McKinsey because they gave all interns a fulltime offer, will really affect their bottom line.
As for the positive aspects of this, I don't think giving fulltime offers is mutually exclusive with interns reeping the positive benefits you mentioned. McKinsey is giving people the option to do the internship if they want and thus to evaluate the culture/learn should they want to (with a fulltime offer in hand). For anyone interning at Bain right now, it's clear that McK incoming interns get basically all the important positives they get, with the huge plus of a fulltime offer in hand, a big weight off their shoulders to say the least, in an extremely stressful time for all of us.
I think from the firm's perspectives, just evaluating McK's decision vs Bain's decision - McK clearly a) gained a long-term reputational edge - which is doubtlessly valuable and b) left its interns more satisfied - also something these firms clearly value at the cost of maybe a 5% increase in BAs/Associates - probably not a huge deal, ultimately, given how cheap these BAs/Associates are in the grand scheme of things.
Good for you that you're going to McKinsey but literally no one cares about this. If you want to talk reputation start first with actual potentially damaging events and take a tally (e.g. insider trading, corruption, support of authoritarian regimes and what not). That hasn't turned the dial significantly it seems, so why would a decision on whether to give interns free offers for a year do?
Something I think we are missing when thinking about auto FT offers is the loss in the experience of trying out consulting. It is so important to experience a real project and what consulting travel is like. It's easy to read about the lifestyle and the work, but a whole different thing to experience it yourself. You also realize that a lot of the glitter and shinny objects fade away super quickly. An airport lounge stops being cool when it feels like a second home. Expensive dinners taste less good when you are exhausted and just want to go to sleep after finishing work. Even if MBB give out 90% offers, the question in my mind is how many accept... At least in my intern class a bunch of people realized the lifestyle wasn't for them. Many of the interns (MBA) were recently married or just about to get married, and I think the 10 weeks showed them that this might not be the career for them right when they are trying to start a family. I mean, I guess that's what being an analyst is for, but leaving after a bad internship vs leaving after a bad first year or 6 months is really different in my mind.
McKinsey's giving guaranteed fulltime while still preserving the option to do the internship
How do you do that in middle of a pandemic?
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