Curious about the general consensus re: an MBA from MIT. Haven't seen too many (recent) threads on it - what's the general consensus about it in comparison to other "lower" MBA business schools">m7 schools (Columbia, Chicago, northwestern)? US news rankings aside, how is f compared to those other schools for recruiting (ib as well but more specifically markets related investment management - mutual fund/hedge fund etc)? Is it better if you want to do quant-y work or is that a stereotype that I'm holding on to?
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MIT sloan is a great school. The difference between Columbia/Chicago/Northwestern is that MIT id considerably more techy/geeky. 50% have engineering undergrad experience (which is much higher than the other schools), and many more graduates aim for technology post-mba. If you want Consulting/IB from Sloan, you can definitely accomplish it (I think MBB is probably their biggest employers).
For pure Quanty finance work, Booth is probably the best of the 4
After quite a bit of research and interaction with the school and alumni, I'd say that your chances at an IM gig are pretty slim. It's just not a target school for that kind of stuff. And like Ops Dude said, the majority of students are more tech / engineering oriented. So you'll be surrounded by a lot fewer like-minded people. This is important because job leads can often come from fellow students.
If you're into IM you should look at HSW, Columbia, and Chicago.
If you just want the average joe MBA jobs MIT will get you there and put you in a great position. Well-respected in my experience. Also, the people seem to be top notch - very smart but humble.
Thanks guys, awesome responses. Kind of along the lines of what I thought (which is why I hadn't really considered MIT earlier).
@"bmcrhino" @"OpsDude" HSW/Columbia/Chicago are my top choices. Also seriously considering applying to NW. Which schools are the best from that list for IM (do certain schools from your list stand out more than others, I mean)? Not interested in quant IM roles, and more interested (as of now) in living on the East Coast (NY,Boston etc) - talking long term, don't mind where I go to school geographically.
For some colour - post MBA goals are (either):
1) Return to IB and eventually work in management at a BB or EB (more likely BB). As an aside, if this is the goal I pursue would a JD also help long-term (especially a 3 year JD/MBA program from Columbia or Penn? considering the benefit I may get from being able to navigate regulatory/legal issues etc?
2) Move to the buy-side. Primarily interested in fundamental research, most likely long/short equity or event driven/special situations (aware they are quite different, still working out where my main interests lie). Also potentially interested in distressed debt - are there certain schools that would help with any one of these/preclude me from others (e.g. assuming Stanford or Chicago may be best if my sole purpose was to work for Oaktree, for example)?
3) Move to corporate strategy at a large company (no specific industry interest yet - most of my IB experience has been in consumer though and I do like it). This is the least likely option.
2 is probably the most likely goal for me (as of now) followed (pretty closely) by 1.
As an(other) aside, I am an international student working in IB outside the US, but will do my MBA in the US and am likely to stay post-MBA (Visa won't be an issue for me - won't need work sponsorship as I have other definite ways of getting it). Likely to do some IB pre-MBA in the US (moving to NY office of my bank is likely) but hypothetically assuming I can't do buy-side work pre-MBA (and want to move to the buy-side post MBA), would it be more beneficial to stay in IB for 3 years and go straight to MBA, stay a 4th (associate) year, or would it be best to do something like ER for a couple of years after IB and pre-MBA? I'm speaking in the (potential?) context of moving overseas with my bank and needing to keep working for them for a few years as a consequence (because, for further detail, I'll likely need Visa sponsorship pre-MBA but not post-MBA for various reasons).
Aware that there is a lot of info there - would really appreciate any other advice you guys may have. Thanks heaps.
I go to NW, definitely at least apply. The school is absolutely amazing. It's definitely the most fun school.
Saw your post, it's partly why I'm considering applying (I also started my UG in the US before moving to Australia, and visited NW during college tours and loved the campus - actually applied there for UG, was waitlisted, got in somewhere else I wanted to go more and took my name off the waitlist). Definitely wouldn't mind spending time there again.
What's the IB/IM recruitment like there (for NY, not Chicago)?
Well, that settles it then. Kellogg's standard for empiricism must be different than what I'm used to.
^~~ this is what booth students sound like.
jk
It's fun to poke at the stereotypes... on both sides. Honestly, it's pretty tough to screw up "having fun" at business camp.
You be surprised. I always get MS'ed on this board a lot for me being negative on CBS, but of the~ 20 people I've talked to who went there, more than half had a negative opinion...which is absurd, at other schools everyone always loves it (one exception might be Wharton, which also seems to have a culture issue) and has fun.
Compare CBS to Booth: Booth is another big city school in the same tier, and also finance focused. Although it's not a culture I think I would like, the people who go there absolutely love it.
You get monkey shit because your posts have turned into the Kellogg version of Brady talking about how amazing the school is and so much better than everywhere else. Every school has strengths and weaknesses and you bash a great school which you didn't attend and have no real information about. The reality is if somebody wants to go into Investment Management then CBS is a much better choice than Kellogg. It doesn't matter how much fun the school is you will get better buyside placement from CBS and if you think that isn't true you really have drunk way too much Kellogg kool-aid.
Since it sounds like you're much more interested in the fundamental research side of things, this sounds like a waste of money and time. While you'd be wasting an extra year + and thousands of dollars, your peers are out there working in the real world, moving up the ladder. And the JD won't help much except signal to people that you like degrees. These companies want hungry, passionate, and sharp guys and a JD just might send the wrong message.
Landing a gig at a top fund in any of those areas will be tough for virtually anyone and the less experience you have in that area, the harder it will be. It sounds like you don't have much experience with investing / hedge funds based on you saying that you'd be interested in distressed debt, or L/S equity, or special sits. Those are so different and require different skill sets. I don't think any program would be better than others for these. EXCEPT Columbia's Value Investing program will be the best for landing an IM gig.
A corporate gig would be an easy path for you.
One last comment: If you did IB pre-MBA and post-MBA, I think it would be a BIG stretch to lateral to the buy-side. As shitty as it is, there are enough go-getters coming from the analyst programs of ER and IB, and MBA grads that there isn't a lot of room for an IB associate.
I speak from my position at a HF. Maybe PE would be a bit different.
In terms of ranking the programs (my opinion based on what I've seen around town): 1. H 2. S 3. W 4. Columbia 5. Chicago
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it - couple of follow up qs I hope you won't mind answering.
1) Mostly considering JD/MBA in the context of working in senior management at a bank down the line, not in the context of pure IB. I've heard pros and cons for this - do you still think it'd be irrelevant in the context of working in management (to help with the legal issues?) I also briefly considered the possibility of having 2 summers rather than 1 to intern - assuming wanting to move to buy-side with some (or none) pre-MBA experience, do you think the extra summer would be very beneficial? As one example, thinking about the possibility of going smaller fund --> better fund or even big law ---> fund (like distressed) where that may help etc. Still no point?
2) You're spot on, I have no experience with investing/hedge funds professionally. Basically, I'm in my first year of IB and am thinking ahead - enjoyed my internship and subsequent work enough to think I may want to stay, but love investing and am likely (if not certain) to follow that path. Distressed debt/L/S equity/special sits are all very different as you said, but each have piqued my interest and I'm in the process of learning more about each. For now I know that I'm definitely a value investor philosophy-wise (not extreme value) and find distressed debt/event driven stuff really interesting (large part of why I'm considering a JD/MBA).
Re: your last comment. I will have decided what I want to do post-MBA well before it and am not likely to return to IB post-MBA if I choose to move to the buy-side. My ideal path is (currently) IB ---> buy-side group at my bank ---> MBA. If that isn't possible/doesn't work out, would you recommend moving to ER for a couple of years (assuming direct move to buy-side is not an option) before MBA? Finally, do you see many post-MBA ER guys move to the buy-side eventually?
Thanks, your rankings are pretty in-line with my perceptions so good to see I've been looking in the right places.
Paging @"kingfalcon", he could probably provide more insight.
Thanks!
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