Whats better in terms of exit ops and salary...middle office IBD or working at Big 4? I eventually want to get into something FO finance related.
Would I have a better chance of getting into a good business school from MO IBD or Big 4?
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I think you would have a better chance getting into a good business school from consulting. From the numbers I have been seeing recently consultants have been consistently better represented at the top business schools than people working in the financial services industry.
I think the question is Big 4 Audit or IBD MO. Answer is almost always Big 4 audit for the following reasons:
At the Big 4, you are "front office". You're client-facing and dealing with similar shit that bankers deal with. The hours may be (slightly) better, but it's just as tedious and detail-oriented - with shitty client demands and unforgiving bosses. You will put a designation under your belt, and have a good grasp of accounting.
With MO, you're basically shit out of luck for the most part (exception is sometimes MO -> Trading), especially after recent scandals at UBS.
For business schools, both are worse than front office in a bank - so try and make the switch ASAP if you can.
Thank you for the response.
Coming from a Big 4 audit position, what would would I be able to get in IBD? What would be easiest/ most likely to transition into?
It all depends. While big four is not the greatest job in the world, it is not a bad place to start off. If you go to work at a Big 4 firm and get on a client whose industry you are interested in (financial services, energy, etc.) you have a very unique opportunity in that you essientally have open access to the clients files. While a lot of auditors put in 2-3 years and don't learn much b/c they simply perform the tests and move on, you really can learn a great deal about an industy if you just slow down and really read some of the stuff you are looking to pull numbers from.
Target Big 4 in region that has the client base you are interested in (Houston - energy / NYC - financials), put in a year, learn all about the industry and then switch to a IB position focusing on that industry.
I can definitely agree with that. I think there needs to be a lot less emphasis on the 'title' of a job, and more emphasis on 'what' you do. Although I am currently on the IBD path, I did spend one summer at a Big 4 and was amazed by how much I learned from the opportunity.
True that. FYI I lateraled from Big 4 to IBD after a little over a year.
While I didn't focus on a specific industry and I had no prior experience in the coverage group I'm in, Big 4 definitely helped me break in. Aside from jumping straight into IB, Big 4 is actually a very logical stepping stone. At the junior level, you're just looking at the financial statements in both audit/IB majority of the time anyways. The only difference is in audit you look at the GL account and in IB you look at the line item. Either way, you're still dealing a lot with accounting, just for different purposes. Also, one thing that you don't get in IB but you do in audit is client interaction (at least at the analyst level). I'm really grateful for being forced to talk to clients all the time in audit - it really really helped me with my interview skills came time to recruit for IB and it'll be very handy later on.
If you want to transition from Big 4 to IB, go for it man. If you actually look past all the vouching and tick and tying bullshit that you do in audit, you'll find out there's a lot that you can learn. If you can convince a senior banker that you're just not a typical auditor processing shit all day and have a believable story as to why you're interested in IB, you'll break in sooner or later. Trust me, Big 4 isn't THAT bad of a place to be. I'd even argue that it's one of the best places to start off if you're willing to make the most of it.
The "stigma" against accountants really only come from prospective bankers that haven't even broken into banking yet. Most people that are actually in banking either don't care you were in Big 4 or thinks that the accounting background is very helpful. The reason why you don't see a lot of Big 4 --> IBD is because majority of auditors don't want to even do IB. Most people in audit bounce after 2-4 years because they hate the hours and lack of work life balance, why would they subject themselves to even more torture by going into IB? Contrary to what it seems like on the boards, not everyone wants to go into IB. Outside of a very small community, majority of the people that you interact with don't give a fuck that you're in IB, even if you're working at GS TMT or MS M&A. In fact, the people that are close to you and really matter probably hate the fact you're in IB.
At the end of the day, if you're legit, you'll get what you want out of your career (whether it's IB or something else). Just make sure you really have good reasons for wanting it.
Btw feel free to ask me about specific questions.
Equity research is pretty common in the UK, and to a lesser degree in Canada. A lot of it depends on what industry you cover as an auditor. It's less likely in the united states.
A top Canadian MBA (Ivey or Rotman) are also very much open to auditors, for the most part. Those will allow you relatively easier (than directly) access to the hallowed halls of M&A/IBD if you so choose - albeit several years down the road. For a top MBA, you'll want to stick around to manager (4-5 years). I've had colleagues get into schools like Booth, Columbia and Wharton as well as the top Canadian schools though, so it's very much possible.
Canada is relatively interesting, in that the top guys at many hedge funds, banks and other financial institutions are often CAs, mostly due to the fact that the MBA is "relatively" new in Canada. Prior to the 90s, CAs were the defacto "business" guys up here and to this day, it's a tight club - the CA is far more respected here than their american equivalents south of the border.
Note that Canada and the UK/EU view the Big 4 much more positively than the US.
Also note that within the "middle office" there is a huge range of amount of interaction with front office, level of transferable "finance" skills, etc.
Which middle office positions have the most interaction with front office, specifically?
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