12/31/15

Mod Note (Andy) - as the year comes to an end we're reposting the top discussions from 2015, this one ranks #24 and was originally posted 3/21/2015.

I figured I'd make this post mostly because it's a topic I enjoy water cooler or barroom talk about, and since people have some strong opinions about this it might lead to something interesting. Besides which a lot of the folks on here who are even younger than I am(or have less experience) might not have to go through what I did before I realized the key ingredients to dating success.

Bit of background: I'm 29 now, and in a good relationship. It wasn't always that way, as I was borderline Aspie in high school and only had a few disastrous relationships in my undergraduate. That changed slowly over time as I began to get so frustrated with my lack of romantic success that the status quo was no longer an option and I finally got motivated to improve that aspect of my life.

The bottom line is that it's entirely about marketing and sales. If you've ever taken a sales class you're going to recognize a lot of what I'm going to say. If you haven't almost all of the core concepts that your finance club or career center taught you about the job search apply here.

Since I don't have all day to hang around on the forums I'll condense it down to the main lessons I've learned and add story as necessary later. They're in this order for a reason as I recommend learning the concepts in that order.

My Core Philosophies

#1: Women do the choosing

If you struggling with dating, then this point comes before all others. The phrasing is borrowed from a mentor I had back in the day for good reason: every other thing here is based on a recognition of this fact. While I recognize that a lot of dudes aren't comfortable with concept(particularly PUA goobers, who usually get very defensive when I say that), just admit that you're wrong. Every time the topic has been studied the results are that female selection defines courtship behavior....in ANY mammalian species, not just humans.

#2: Know yourself,

Self explanatory. You need to know who you are, what your personality is, what your strengths are, and what your weaknesses are. This goes a bit deeper than just being able to write a profile as you need to understand what really makes you tick and what your own motivations and emotional drives are. As an extension of this you also need to have a high level of self awareness so you can understand how different aspects of your communication and presentation are perceived by others.

#3 Know your Target Audience

#1 is why this important, and you need to know #2 to be able to use this information. If we accept that women control sexual selection that it logically follows that the way to get what you want (whether that be laid, a harem, a girlfriend, or married) is dependent on your ability to give women what they want. This is although few people would look at me and think that I'm a player, and I don't have what most people would call "mad game", I'm still able to get what I want: I've figured out what my dating niche is (churchgoing, small town, girl next door types) and how to sell myself to that niche. While it's a smaller market I've got other friends who have successfully adapted my philosophy targeting other demographics (Sex and the City type career women and sorority girls respectively) and achieved fantastic results for their own goals.

To help break that down I classify them in three main categories(you may do it differently). The first is the housewives. These are the girls that want to settle down, get married, and have the kids and white picket fence. Secondly you have the freaks, who are motivated primarily by thrills(particularly sexual) and excitement. They're the ones you see licking each other's boobs and dressed in crotch-high, skin-tight dresses at the club. Needless to say you don't get with them by behaving like a respectable gentlemen. Finally you've got the diggers.....ones that are attracted primarily to guys who have status and money. You've got to be careful with that type because they've usually got some game and if you're not careful(or man enough to handle them) a skilled digger will suck you drier than the crickets I feed my pet tarantula.

Obviously your target audience may differ. If you want models, then mold yourself into a handsome and rich businessman(or be an athlete). If you want wild club girls then you want to be the kind of guy you DO NOT take home to momma....and if you want a small town country girl then you'd better be the kind of guy who doesn't mind getting sweaty or getting some elbow grease on his hands.

#4 have a sales plan

I am NOT suggesting you do like the dumbass PUA's and have a line by line script that you recite. What you should do is know what personal qualities you are using as a selling point(e.g. well dressed, smart, a fantastic lay) and what your strategy is to convey those points....and have a clear goal in mind that you are going to ACT towards(ask her out or back to your place instead of just thinking about it). This should also include a long term plan for continual improvement and maintenance of yourself.

On another note, here's a few key tips that I have found invaluable:

#1: Use the "brad pitt" rule with girls.

In other words, you ask yourself a simple question: "If I were Brad Pitt(or any other attractive celebrity of your choice), would this girl be behaving the way she is?" If you were Brad Pitt would she flake on a date? Would she suddenly need to "use the bathroom" while talking to you if you were a famous actor?

You know the answer to that question.....and deep down you know what that says about her level of interest in you. Following this rule has dramatically improved the quality of my own relationships, culminating with my wife. I highly doubt that she'd treat any celebrity better than she treats me.

If you're using online dating it applies there. Don't waste your time with girls who aren't responding to your messages quickly and enthusiastically. Girls these days have their damn phones within arm's reach 24/7 so there's rarely any reason why she should take longer than a few hours to get back to your texts/emails/calls.

#2: "Eye contact".

In public, don't approach every girl. You'll look like a desperate goober and blow out the bar. Instead take a look around and only approach girls who make eye contact with you and either hold it or look away submissively (typically down, not away sideways). Eventually you'll be able to intuitively "feel" which girls you can connect with but I don't recommend trying it until you've already had some success with women.

#3. Active Listening.

The better you are at this skill the better you will do. PAY ATTENTION to what a girl is telling you, don't interrupt, and learn how to ask follow on questions to guide the conversation while still letting her do most of the talking. Don't make the mistake most guys do of trying to run their mouths in order to impress a girl. Most of the time she should do about 2/3 of the talking.

#4 Know how to dance.

If you're meeting women in the club, by far the best way to get girls is by being able to dance. I've got an actor buddy who pulls like crazy because he will generally go into the club, look for a woman who returns his gaze, then without asking reach out his hand and take them over to the dance floor before just pulling out his phone and giving it to them.

#5 Know how to fuck.

Being good in the sack is a key skill. If you can take charge in bed and get a woman to lose control while you fuck then there are a lot of ways this will benefit your game. Besides the obvious benefits that come with being able to give women powerful, addictive, orgasms that keep them coming back for more there are also other side benefits. some guys use this to gain emotional control by speaking to her while she's having orgasms. I use this actively at home by using words at the right intimate moments to create a feeling of powerful connection to me. That's one of many reasons why I'm not the least bit worried about her cheating on me: she can't get better dick than mine, or an emotional high like I give her, anywhere else and I make sure she knows it.

#6 Look good.

If you look beautiful, good for you. Most people are average by definition of the word and while I've seen a lot of well presented people in finance there are very few qualified to be male models. You can close the gap by keeping yourself in good shape and by dressing well. Women notice when you are health and well put together a lot more than you think they do, and I guarantee you can find anecdotal evidence to back that up. I had one acquaintance(an executive with a MM Marketing company) who saw a dramatic increase in both the quantity and quality of women on his team simply by going from 15% body fat(not noticeably fat) to 11%(no flab). Similarly know how to dress. Obviously your office style is no good at a club. I highly recommend getting a style consultant to work with you and give you a list of suggested color combinations and styles to use.

This will also benefit your professional career. Who usually gets the job: the best qualified or the best looking candidate? You all don't need me to tell you the answer to that question.

#7 Verbal communication takes practice.

It's a no brainer why this is important. Personally I recommend Toastmasters as they have modules designed for different aspects of communication, and they can be a fantastic networking resource. Doing it will dramatically improve your social confidence, storytelling skills, and it will also improve professional communication skills that will be invaluable as you advance in your career. I've got another acquaintance who is a tech expert in NYC, and has recently advanced his career( and salary) considerably as his bosses noticed the dramatic improvement in his speaking skills.

For something that's a bit more fun try an improv class.

#8 Don't get fucking lazy.

Don't take shortcuts, don't try to run scripts, don't think that just having cash or "prestige" is going to get you good results(although that might lead to you getting played by a digger).... and don't get complacent just because you have a girlfriend. I've made that mistake before and the result is that you are going to slip up and get assed out. You are ALWAYS in the game no matter what your relationship status is. Even if you're monogamous like I am then you still game your woman.

#9 Don't be a stereotypical nice guy.

Forget all that hollywood bullshit. It's sold to you because women like seeing sappy guys in movies, males like that aren't threatening to the audience, and it's a feminist friendly portrayal of males. If you're a "nice guy" you're also full of bullshit. The only reason you're being "nice" is because you want to fuck her.

What if I told you that you can be a gentleman but still be aggressive?

Instead of being one of those get the fuck over yourself, man up, and learn how to be a leader. Most women want a man that they can trust in a position of leadership. It's your job to fill those shoes and you aren't going to do it by being a "nice guy". Less Ted Mosby and Michael Cera, more James Bond, Jack Donaghy and Jax Teller.

Comments (112)

3/17/15

Nice post, but why is it when women approach men they act like she is a thirsty Wh*re (Work PC)? I was raised in the South so most guys would approach girls and it wouldn't be "creepy." Now I live out West and some basic girls have made some good looking guys so awkward and shy that they won't approach girls because they now think it's creepy. So confused.

Greed is Good!

Financial Modeling
3/17/15

Great post but I think getting a "style consultant" might be a little aggressive

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

  • Margaret Thatcher
3/17/15

whitecollarandsuspenders:

Great post but I think getting a "style consultant" might be a little aggressive

You don't need to go full out. In fact it's unnecessary to do that. I did a little bit of networking for this one and found out that one of my friends has a girlfriend who does that.....and for $25 bucks + an hour of my time I got matched up with a color palette that I now swear by.

Given the choice between full out consulting and experimentation I'd go with the former. It can be a bit pricey but a single session is going to cost you less than going through several outfits to find the one that works best.

Best Response
3/17/15

Dude, what is wrong with you?

3/17/15

adapt or die:

Dude, what is wrong with you?

Lol

You just need to be confident and non-needy, the rest takes care of itself. Tossing in a little humor and not being a fat slob helps also.

3/17/15

Brilliant post. Well done.

3/17/15

mbavsmfin:

Brilliant post. Well done.

When you receive praises from Brady, you know you fucked up, OP.

5/26/15

.

3/17/15

User11221122:

I couldn't read your whole post since this is so fucking stupid.

Not only is the mammalian comment irrelevant, I'm not sure its true. If you had any confidence or measure of self worth, you would realize men do the choosing, after age ~20.

I don't make the statement lightly. Take a look here: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=female+sexual+...

The comment is also unrelated to "confidence" or "self worth". A confident man recognizes that women choose males and that fact doesn't bother him because he knows what he brings to the table, and knows that the kind of woman he likes will see it in him.

3/17/15

Very practical. In fact, this is one of the most matter of fact "game" breakdowns I've ever seen. I SB'd.

My own philosophy boils down to this: Be ready if/when she is. You just never know with chicks. They're flaky, they're prone to changing their minds at the last minute, they're status conscious, they care about how they're perceived by friends and strangers, are indirect when trying to let you down gently, etc.

Once I realized this I stopped caring and just plowed through pickups. Some girls are really turned on by my directness, some not so much. If she maintains eye contact and seems intent on holding a conversation, then it's my duty to escalate. If she's looking to blow me off, then I jet. Wash, rinse, and repeat enough and eventually your odds in any given situation will be about even. I've seen plenty of guys talk their way out of success by trying to be too cute, too clever, or by second guessing themselves. You have to be ready when she is. Dick around too much and she'll lose interest as quickly as a cat does with a new toy.

Finally, there's a visual and mental component. Visually, they love a man who looks good (not necessarily physically but stylistically) so look your best. Mentally, they love a man who exudes certain traits: confidence, authority, humor, etc...so act your best. It's really not that hard to be funny and/or charming. I moonlighted as a stand up comic for a couple of years so I have a vault full of material I use to keep them laughing. Just to show how much of a geek I am, over the years I kept a little book with all sorts of clever retorts, rebuttals, sayings, one liners, etc. and committed them to memory. It's pure gold. You needn't go that far but I was incredibly socially awkward as recently as 4 years ago.

To sum it up: look your best, act your best, and be ready when she is. Doesn't guarantee you'll get every girl but you'll def. get the ones that you're supposed to.

It's not rocket science.

5/26/15

.

3/17/15

"I will not read a single study". What's next? Gonna quote some William Jennings Bryan to us, c. Scopes Monkey Trial?

First, you don't even need to read a study. Go into a bar. Stand there. Do nothing. Count how many women approach you and express interest. Next, have an attractive girlfriend of yours do that.

Bottom line: she gets approached, and she chooses who she selects of who approaches her. You present your "package" (not referring to your penis) and she decides if it's worthwhile or not. It's very simple. Doesn't work the other way around.

And last, your chart is mostly wrong. At age 40, it might be true. At age 25, completely wrong. Even the top men at age 25 get rejected ALL the time. There's not a super hot woman in the world who gets rejected even a majority of the time at age 25.

3/17/15

I think there was some confusion about what being a "chooser" entails but given how you defined it here I would agree 100%.

3/17/15

Masterz57:

Bottom line: she gets approached, and she chooses who she selects of who approaches her. You present your "package" (not referring to your penis) and she decides if it's worthwhile or not. It's very simple. Doesn't work the other way around.

Depends on what is meant by choosing and the context. For one night stands from bars and clubs bishes are choosin because that is not in their best interest. But for any sort of monogamous relationship guys are the choosers because monogamy is not in their best interest. It's just science

3/17/15

Going Concern:

Masterz57:

Bottom line: she gets approached, and she chooses who she selects of who approaches her. You present your "package" (not referring to your penis) and she decides if it's worthwhile or not. It's very simple. Doesn't work the other way around.

Depends on what is meant by choosing and the context. For one night stands from bars and clubs bishes are choosin because that is not in their best interest. But for any sort of monogamous relationship guys are the choosers because monogamy is not in their best interest. It's just science

Prepare for a deluge of monkey shit for this comment. At least that's what happened to me last time I pointed out this rather obvious human mating strategy.
3/17/15

Going Concern:

Masterz57:

Bottom line: she gets approached, and she chooses who she selects of who approaches her. You present your "package" (not referring to your penis) and she decides if it's worthwhile or not. It's very simple. Doesn't work the other way around.

Depends on what is meant by choosing and the context. For one night stands from bars and clubs bishes are choosin because that is not in their best interest. But for any sort of monogamous relationship guys are the choosers because monogamy is not in their best interest. It's just science


But even at bars, women don't have the freedom to select a mate that we do. A guy can approach every girl at the bar if he wants. A woman's choices are going to be limited to the handful of guys that approach her (unless she's confident enough to make the first move... which isn't very common). For the most part, she'll have to choose from the guys that chose her first.

The trick to dating lots of women is just to approach as many as possible. In fact, that's also the trick to meeting the right girl. Sooner or later you'll run into what you're looking for. That's what's awesome about being a man!

3/17/15

NGW:

Going Concern:
Masterz57:

Bottom line: she gets approached, and she chooses who she selects of who approaches her. You present your "package" (not referring to your penis) and she decides if it's worthwhile or not. It's very simple. Doesn't work the other way around.

Depends on what is meant by choosing and the context. For one night stands from bars and clubs bishes are choosin because that is not in their best interest. But for any sort of monogamous relationship guys are the choosers because monogamy is not in their best interest. It's just science

But even at bars, women don't have the freedom to select a mate that we do. A guy can approach every girl at the bar if he wants. A woman's choices are going to be limited to the handful of guys that approach her (unless she's confident enough to make the first move... which isn't very common). For the most part, she'll have to choose from the guys that chose her first.

The trick to dating lots of women is just to approach as many as possible. In fact, that's also the trick to meeting the right girl. Sooner or later you'll run into what you're looking for. That's what's awesome about being a man!

I don't disagree

3/17/15

The beauty of online dating is that it allows you to date tons of people fairly easily. However, the quality isn't that great, and the attractive ones are bombarded with male attention, so it's hard to consistently land quality dates through online.

I still think the best way to meet women is through venues such as school, civic organization, mutual friends, house party, etc. Bars/clubs are terrible places for the most part.

3/18/15

The trick to dating lots of women is just to approach as many as possible. In fact, that's also the trick to meeting the right girl. Sooner or later you'll run into what you're looking for. That's what's awesome about being a man!
5/26/15

.

3/18/15

A. Of course I strike out with women. Every single guy in the world does. If you're not striking out some of the time it means you're not even trying.
B. Unlike some of the other people on this thread I'm not going to engage in a dick measuring contest on an anonymous Internet forum.
C. Your point about relationships and choosing may be correct, I don't think it's clear enough advantage for me to say for sure. For instance, for a man to choose a woman for a relationship she has to choose him to go out with for the first date. Chicken and egg situation.

3/18/15

Masterz57:

C. Your point about relationships and choosing may be correct, I don't think it's clear enough advantage for me to say for sure. For instance, for a man to choose a woman for a relationship she has to choose him to go out with for the first date. Chicken and egg situation.

A bit, but that's also not true from a guy's perspective. All you really need to know as a dude is that if a girl isn't giving any indication she's interested in you then you shouldn't waste your time.

3/23/15

Would agree with this completely, falling in 25 year bracket you are referring to.

3/17/15

I love my freedom way too much to box myself/mylife with a cum dump. Your post should be titled: advice for ugly dudes. Pretty boys like myself have all the women. Married and not married. Young and MILFs.

3/17/15

companion:
Pretty boys like myself have all the women.

And VD.

3/17/15

false. everyone on wso w/ more than 100 banana points is ugly.

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

3/17/15

David Aames:

false. everyone on wso w/ more than 100 banana points is ugly.

source?

3/17/15

companion:

David Aames:

false. everyone on wso w/ more than 100 banana points is ugly.

source?


He's using himself as a sample of 1.
3/17/15

neither of you had a funny response to my comment. fail

cc @"companion"

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

3/17/15

CorpFinanceGuy:

companion:
David Aames:

false. everyone on wso w/ more than 100 banana points is ugly.

source?

He's using himself as a sample of 1.

Here. Take that banana.

3/17/15

David Aames:

false. everyone on wso w/ more than 100 banana points is ugly.

Look at my picture.....that is the definition of a handsome man.
3/17/15

i guy that pretends to be dick fuld (and does a great job of it) is telling me to look at his fake avatar. this has gotten too weird, i'm out

p.s. i'm sure youre a handsome snowflake though, get some

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

3/17/15

David Aames:

i guy that pretends to be dick fuld (and does a great job of it) is telling me to look at his fake avatar. this has gotten too weird, i'm out

p.s. i'm sure youre a handsome snowflake though, get some

Fake avatar? What does that even mean? It's clearly not a drawing.
3/18/15

DickFuld:

David Aames:

false. everyone on wso w/ more than 100 banana points is ugly.

Look at my picture.....that is the definition of a handsome man.


Haha you look like a young Steve Carell. I'd SB you but I'm out.
Financial Modeling
3/17/15

I miss midas mulligan magoo videos and life lessons with poppa Braverman. :(

3/18/15

Me too. somehow I feel like Midas and Eddie would each have a very different approach to dating....

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

3/17/15

@"easy c" i could write my dating philosophy in like 2-3 sentences. if it takes you more than a paragraph you are wayyyy over thinking it

you must socially awkward, ugly, or both. no offense

edit: sorry that was mean, had a shitty day

What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions?

3/17/15

David Aames:

@Easy C i could write my dating philosophy in like 2-3 sentences. if it takes you more than a paragraph you are wayyyy over thinking it

you must socially awkward, ugly, or both. no offense

edit: sorry that was mean, had a shitty day

Or maybe I'm breaking it down in a way that's more effective when trying to communicate my points to left-brained, analytical types.

3/17/15

lol "have good credit", i love this website

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My story | My Linkedin

3/17/15

AndyLouis:

lol "have good credit", i love this website

You beat me to it.

Lol.

"Talk to 500 women, don't get rejected by 50, get close with 5, maybe one sucks you off"

3/17/15

From a guys perspective:

Boobs and ass, and all that sass.

3/17/15

LittlemissCEO:

Rumplesmoothspin:

From a guys perspective:

Boobs and ass, and all that sass.

Check, check, double-check :)

We should move this to the PMs.

3/17/15

Am I the only one on this supposedly quantitatively leaning website that noticed he repeated using the numbers six and seven?

3/17/15

you're overthinking this whole thing way too much

3/17/15

Way too much work. Roofies/special K->private plane->unnamed lawless province in Afghanistan->my walled compound. Bitches be like "wtf happened?!?!?" but it's way too late by then and they're mine. When I walk with them into town for a good stewed goat meal they can yell and scream as much as they want because no one cares or understands or I can tape their mouths shut because no one can see under their burqa. And you can have dozens of them as long as you kick up some of your opium money to the local warlord. God bless good ol' Afghanistan!

Seriously, I never tried this hard or had a set strategy with women and I did fine when I was younger. Have things changed that greatly in the last 15 years?

And regarding who chooses: I'd say it's women until a guy hits an very high level of desirability: pro athlete (or college athlete on campus), very wealthy/successful or famous (actor/musician types) and even then it's with a particular type of woman such as a gold digger or celebrity whore. I can't speak to athletes or famous guys, but I know more than a few wealthy guys who either married later in life or are on their second or third helpings and almost every time the women are absolute smoke shows and decades younger but the biggest bitches I've met. As in I wouldn't care if she looked like a 1960's Sophia Loren and could suck a golf ball through a garden hose: these women are usually horrible creatures. So maybe a guy only gets to choose a certain type of woman when he accumulates enough wealth.

3/17/15

Talk to me more about the talking during orgasm manipulation situation.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

3/17/15

Sounds like you are strong devotee of PUA. Good to know.

"It is our fate to be tormented with large and small dilemmas as we daily wind our way through the risky, fractious world that gave us birth" Edward O. Wilson.

3/18/15

WHAT.

THIS IS THE WORST.. YOU are the worst.

HERE, I'll let you guys in on all you need to corral up some whores:
1. Put her on a pedestal
2. Kick her off
3. Breathe

Want some bb qt to shower you with back-to-back calls, voicemails, texts, and emails? Why stop there? You could have neverending cascades of InMail messages, telegraphs, and letters delivered via carrier pigeon too.

Casual harassment isn't some privilege afforded only to HAWT BOYS like Brad Pitt (ew), you know. My neighbor earned his very own stalker, right from the comfort of his home, and you can too! There's just one easy step that you need perform:

Ignore her.

Girls can't handle being rejected, especially if they're constantly on the receiving end of compliments and suggestive Snapchats. Ignore her texts, flake on plans, dial down the interest, whatever. She'll be blowing up your phone at 3:26AM on a Saturday night before you know it.

P.s. All three categories of girls that you mentioned ARE THE SAME.

Are you guys really this clueless? Need I write a fucking manual on collecting basic bitches? Jesus.

3/18/15

snatch:

WHAT.

THIS IS THE WORST.. YOU are the worst.

HERE, I'll let you guys in on all you need to corral up some whores:

1. Put her on a pedestal

2. Kick her off

3. Breathe

Want some bb qt to shower you with back-to-back calls, voicemails, texts, and emails? Why stop there? You could have neverending cascades of InMail messages, telegraphs, and letters delivered via carrier pigeon too.

Casual harassment isn't some privilege afforded only to HAWT BOYS like Brad Pitt (ew), you know. My neighbor earned his very own stalker, right from the comfort of his home, and you can too! There's just one easy step that you need perform:

Ignore her.

Girls can't handle being rejected, especially if they're constantly on the receiving end of compliments and suggestive Snapchats. Ignore her texts, flake on plans, dial down the interest, whatever. She'll be blowing up your phone at 3:26AM on a Saturday night before you know it.

P.s. All three categories of girls that you mentioned ARE THE SAME.

Are you guys really this clueless? Need I write a fucking manual on collecting basic bitches? Jesus.

How do I collect you? I like your personality (inner beauty or something)

3/18/15

snatch:

WHAT.

THIS IS THE WORST.. YOU are the worst.

HERE, I'll let you guys in on all you need to corral up some whores:

1. Put her on a pedestal

2. Kick her off

3. Breathe

Want some bb qt to shower you with back-to-back calls, voicemails, texts, and emails? Why stop there? You could have neverending cascades of InMail messages, telegraphs, and letters delivered via carrier pigeon too.

Casual harassment isn't some privilege afforded only to HAWT BOYS like Brad Pitt (ew), you know. My neighbor earned his very own stalker, right from the comfort of his home, and you can too! There's just one easy step that you need perform:

Ignore her.

Girls can't handle being rejected, especially if they're constantly on the receiving end of compliments and suggestive Snapchats. Ignore her texts, flake on plans, dial down the interest, whatever. She'll be blowing up your phone at 3:26AM on a Saturday night before you know it.

P.s. All three categories of girls that you mentioned ARE THE SAME.

Are you guys really this clueless? Need I write a fucking manual on collecting basic bitches? Jesus.

So many blanket statements, so many points completely missed.......

3/18/15

snatch:

Ignore her.

Girls can't handle being rejected, especially if they're constantly on the receiving end of compliments and suggestive Snapchats. Ignore her texts, flake on plans, dial down the interest, whatever. She'll be blowing up your phone at 3:26AM on a Saturday night before you know it.

There's no magic formula for a guy. This might work some of the time on some of the girls ("basic bitches") but certainly won't work always. Some girls will simply assume the guy isn't interested and shift her attention to another guy pursuing her.

3/18/15

Going Concern:

There's no magic formula for a guy. This might work some of the time on some of the girls ("basic bitches") but certainly won't work always. Some girls will simply assume the guy isn't interested and shift her attention to another guy pursuing her.


-

The antidote to that is good active listening skills. I honestly can't tell you anyone how to get better(I didn't actively work on it) as my skills just improved as I got older, and I'd still classify mine as "average" on the basis that I listen and observe well but I've got bad habits like interrupting that tend to ruin it.

Either way though if you are a skilled enough observe you'll be able to tell when a girl is getting bored or if she's confused and not sure where you're feeling.

3/18/15

Anyways...for starters all three types are definitely NOT the same. While all women( and guys) on some level want partners who are sexually competent, good potential parents, and materially successful that doesn't mean those factors influence all of their behaviors equally. Example that comes to mind is that I've run into girls who straight up said they're "looking for something a little freakier" and I've also met ones who reacted the exact opposite way and appreciated that I took the time to try to figure them out first.

Just the same way that some guys will slather all over the scantily dress, gothy looking chick in the club while others while be repulsed by what they perceive as slutty behavior.

Not a perfect classification by any means but it's a handy and easy way of classifying what motivates gals when they evaluate men.....and same token applies. If you're a man-stud then the freaks are going to love you, while some of the "good girl" types are going to be grossed out if they ever find out how many girls you've been with. Know where you fit in to get the best results.

3/18/15

"To leave no stone unturned" - Me on the prowl

3/18/15

just tell girls you're a trust fund baby...works every time

3/18/15

I like snatch -- both the poster and the real thing (as well as the Guy Ritchie film starring Brad Pitt as a bare-knuckle boxing Irish gypsy...that was good, too).

3/18/15

I saw some ugly ass chicks in NYC yesterday on St. Patricks day ...

3/22/15

They must not have been Irish.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

3/18/15

"Who usually gets the job: the best qualified or the best looking candidate? You all don't need me to tell you the answer to that question."

Entertaining post but you're crazy if you're implying the best looking candidate gets the job more often than the best qualified.

3/29/15

Sonny:

"Who usually gets the job: the best qualified or the best looking candidate? You all don't need me to tell you the answer to that question."

Entertaining post but you're crazy if you're implying the best looking candidate gets the job more often than the best qualified.

Missed this. I'm not "implying", I'm stating. Look it up and do your own research. It's been studied and proven.

4/1/15

With a slight difference in skill, yes, but it here depends on the skill gap.

5/14/15

Could you please post a link to one of the studies?

3/18/15

I feel the correct approach is to jump start the conversation and keep talking until she feels comfortable and then do the active listening. The moment the light bulb hits where a girl will turn from ice cold to electric hot in an instant is amazing.

Found IT! At the 0:47 second mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28JkyL0BUok

3/18/15

he makes it look so easy why aren't we all doing this

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My story | My Linkedin

3/18/15

AndyLouis:

he makes it look so easy why aren't we all doing this

Because it is actually easy. He just started talking to her and kept plowing through. If she showed no interest in a conversation he'd have probably bailed almost as soon as he approached. You can usually tell within a minute (he did in 45 secs). She met a basic compliance test (by smiling) and showed interest by asking him about himself. He picked up on it brilliantly.

I definitely give him points for taking her hand and leading her to the table for a convo though. I def. wouldn't have been able to discern that as an option so quickly. But it sure does beat standing around by a shelf when you think of it.

It amazes me that guys could create an actual industry around basic human interaction.

3/19/15

Maybe because it's fantasy. The key moment in the video is at 1:35 when he tells her "follow me real quick" and she does while he holds her hand. Super realistic. I guess models go to Barnes and Noble to get picked up.

But the first 30-40 seconds where he approaches her is good work. Though that would only be possible in the rare occasion that a girl is by herself which is almost never.

Side note, talking about the technical specifications of ipads is not flirting no matter how long you go without blinking.

3/21/15

it's unbelieably easy man - law of large numbers

"I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. "
-GG

3/18/15

I feel the correct approach is to jump start the conversation and keep talking until she feels comfortable and then do the active listening. The moment the light bulb hits where a girl will turn from ice cold to electric hot in an instant is amazing.

Found IT! At the 0:47 second mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28JkyL0BUok

3/18/15

You are 29? You worry me, unless you got married really young and have no fucking idea how to pull birds, you have no excuse for writing such a load of bollocks.

What's with writing rules and putting everything in a fucking excel table. Just go out and be charming.

"Dudes, am 29 married with a good girl on the outside, bad girl on the inside. I am king Dong and make them all scream. Listen to my advice son."

Alright back to work, thanks for this post.

3/18/15

Be willing to invest in yourself to attract the ideal mate. Most people wouldn't think twice about spending an additional 20k to upgrade their car because they enjoy the higher quality experience even if it is only for 2-4 years. Yet I see men unwilling to spend hundreds of dollars upgrading their wardrobe or personal attractiveness to get a higher quality mate they will have for the rest of their life. Get in shape, have decent grooming, find an attractive personal style of clothing.

It's a small investment for a lifetime upgrade.

3/18/15

OP is pretty cringe worthy

3/18/15

The way I've always thought about attracting girls is stepping back and thinking...if a girl invited me over to have dinner at her house and meet her family, what would I say about myself? Thats really one of the only times where you can really brag about yourself, so I try to think about how that conversation would go.

A couple years ago I did this and realized that I didn't have much to say after 5 minutes, and that helped me get on the right track to self-improvement. Not even with the motivation of getting girls, it was just a technique that helped me recognize where I needed improvement.

If you give off the vibe that you need a girl to make your life fulfilled you probably won't have much luck. Present yourself in a way that makes girls want to be around you, but also know that you don't need them and are shouldn't be afraid to kick any of them to the curb the moment they start to bring you down.

3/18/15

Easy C:

My Core Philosophies

#1: Women do the choosing

If you struggling with dating, then this point comes before all others. The phrasing is borrowed from a mentor I had back in the day for good reason: every other thing here is based on a recognition of this fact. While I recognize that a lot of dudes aren't comfortable with concept(particularly PUA goobers, who usually get very defensive when I say that), just admit that you're wrong. Every time the topic has been studied the results are that female selection defines courtship behavior....in ANY mammalian species, not just humans.

This is correct for an average male,but a high quality male has the most power in the dating world. Even in the animal world the "alpha male" picks who he wants to mate with that could be one female or all the females in the group. So the girls who the high quality guy doesn't want then falls to the lower level guys. So if you are not one of the top guys in the room then yes the girl would have to chose you as there are a lot of other average guys around as well.

If you are not a high quality male yet then in my opinion you should't waste your time dating you should using that time to better yourself (career,working out, clothes, life adventures) so that you can actually get the girls you actually want. It is better to go through a a period of very little sex for 6-7 months put in the work needed and then be able to actually get the better girls than to settle for any girl will sleep with you.

"When you expect things to happen - strangely enough - they do happen."
- JP Morgan

3/18/15

TFW im only attracted to freaks

Disclaimer for the Kids: Any forward-looking statements are solely for informational purposes and cannot be taken as investment advice. Consult your moms before deciding where to invest.

3/18/15

OP,

Despite your few random putdowns of PUAs, you've literally described exactly what good PUAs do.

3/19/15

John-Doe8:

OP,

Despite your few random putdowns of PUAs, you've literally described exactly what good PUAs do.

By "PUA's" I'm talking mostly about the internet marketer type PUA's. I actually know a few local PUA instructors up in Denver and I was extremely impressed by their game: most were very masculine, confident guys. They seem to be the exception in my experience. I've run into some other ones in Denver, NYC, and Atlanta and in each instance they struck me as extremely robotic and creepy.

I'm also very much opposed to old-school PUA game where you run up to a girl with a pre-set "stack" of things you say to her. They're trying to treat a conversation like a computer program where X input always gets you Y result. Human interactions just don't work that way.

If you are not a high quality male yet then in my opinion you should't waste your time dating you should using that time to better yourself (career,working out, clothes, life adventures) so that you can actually get the girls you actually want. It is better to go through a a period of very little sex for 6-7 months put in the work needed and then be able to actually get the better girls than to settle for any girl will sleep with you.

For starters, that was part of my original advice. I said that you need to develop the qualities that your target audience finds attractive in order to be successful, to include knowing how to communicate that you have those qualities.

You know how when you set your sights on a particular BB, the most successful applicants will quickly figure out what their criteria are and spend their first few college years building that resume so they can get the internship? Same way here.

However, you also need to keep in mind what you're saying. While there's a lot of "high quality males" most of us are average by virtue of the word's definition. That means that in order to get the same results as a guy who is as good looking as Tatum Channing or Leonardo DiCaprio(not that I'm impressed with their looks, but girls sure seem to be) then you need to work harder to close the gap. You can do that in any number of ways ranging from hitting the gym, being a better dresser, or plain old attitude.

It's rare but I can think of a counterexample: That Irish guy I mentioned earlier is short, fat, and ugly but he more than makes up for it with attitude and accent. It also helps that (based on what I know of his military record) the guy is a bona fide badass. I'm in much better shape than he is and I wouldn't dream of trying to fuck with him.

3/18/15

Alright I'll bite... I think a lot of this has to do with your age/location, your friends, and your level of comfort (drunk or sober) interacting with girls. I think the best thing anyone can do is work on themselves and to stay busy. Hit the gym. Pay a little more attention to what you're eating. Get involved with something you're passionate about outside of finance. Right now I'm getting pretty bored with the girls in my friend group that I'm usually around on weekends so I'm actively working on meeting new people through volunteering (free t-shirts anyone?), hitting up the Tinder/Hinge baes (granted it takes some work but meeting up at a bar or area that you're already going to be at on a Friday/Saturday night with your buddies is a win-win), and keeping my mind from wandering by just staying busy.

Adding to the discussion about the video posted (I skimmed through it) and some of the comments that came before it, I'll share a quick story about one of my friends that I work with. This dude is just a normal guy. Nothing too stand-out but when it comes to "opening" or just saying something to random girls, he kills it. He followed the PUA shit for awhile but all it takes is some stupid comment or "intro" and you can go from there. I don't know how he does it half of the time but he has more balls than me when it comes to just randomly approaching girls. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Lastly, have/make girl friends. They will hook you up with their friends and it makes things 10x easier.

3/18/15

I'm just going to leave this here.......
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12115-...

3/18/15

And in case you missed it, the co-author of that study is a woman, a highly regarded professor at the B-school at University of Minnesota. (Kathleen Vohs)

3/19/15

Just to reiterate how easy it is, check out this guy. He goes beyond socially awkward straight into possible head injury and still manages to number close a few girls.

http://theflama.com/awkward-guy-picks-up-girls-and...

3/19/15

How can you avoid a post from WSO on dating?

I don't know, my friends, I don't know...

3/19/15

To be fair, I've read plenty of "how to date" threads in the past and this was the first one that didn't strike me as out and out ridiculous. Certainly nothing stupid like the stuff you get with PUAs like negs and peackocking, lol

3/19/15

TheGrind:

To be fair, I've read plenty of "how to date" threads in the past and this was the first one that didn't strike me as out and out ridiculous. Certainly nothing stupid like the stuff you get with PUAs like negs and peackocking, lol

Eh, there's a lot of PUA stuff in the OP. For example "know yourself" is the same as "inner game". Just semantics

Also "don't be a nice guy" is just PUA-esque bull chit that is part of the larger category of advice that advocates trying to pretend to be some particular person whether or not you are. The fact of the matter is that bishes often do like guys who are nice and not huge douchebags...they like nice guys who also have a spine and don't need them to be happy. Parroting these kind of lines is misleading

Finally while "negs" weren't mentioned in the OP and are very PUA ish it's undeniable that bishes love being teased if done properly

3/20/15

Regarding sex: :"some guys use this to gain emotional control by speaking to her while she's having orgasms. I use this actively at home by using words at the right intimate moments to create a feeling of powerful connection to me."

Yikes.... this sound extremely manipulative, misogynistic, self-centered and, obviously, controlling. While you may have some good advice, this language is incredibly concerning. If someone had that attitude toward my sister, mother, female friends and/or ex-girlfriends, I would really angry and worried that a person I cared was being treated so horribly.

3/20/15

Jason-Rhee:

Regarding sex: :"some guys use this to gain emotional control by speaking to her while she's having orgasms. I use this actively at home by using words at the right intimate moments to create a feeling of powerful connection to me."

Yikes.... this sound extremely manipulative, misogynistic, self-centered and, obviously, controlling. While you may have some good advice, this language is incredibly concerning. If someone had that attitude toward my sister, mother, female friends and/or ex-girlfriends, I would really angry and worried that a person I cared was being treated so horribly.


You made a new account just to comment how misogynistic that quote was when the whole thread is about picking up women? Really? Shouldn't you be reading some tech blog complaining about the lack of diversity or women board members in Silicon Valley?

Chicks do the same thing in bed and love to play mind games. Like it has been discussed heavily in this thread, 99% of the time chicks can get laid when they want with whoever they want. This isn't a fucking one way street.

Holy shit I'm tired of everyone trying to find some sort of sexist, racist, feministic, politically incorrect angle to every damn thing someone writes online. Just one time I'd love for everyone to read something and take it at face value rather than dissect every possible angle and come up with a different interpretation than the writer clearly intended.

Or maybe I'm just too insensitive to the struggles and problems of the oppressed.

3/22/15

CorpFinanceGuy:

Jason-Rhee:

Regarding sex: :"some guys use this to gain emotional control by speaking to her while she's having orgasms. I use this actively at home by using words at the right intimate moments to create a feeling of powerful connection to me."

Yikes.... this sound extremely manipulative, misogynistic, self-centered and, obviously, controlling. While you may have some good advice, this language is incredibly concerning. If someone had that attitude toward my sister, mother, female friends and/or ex-girlfriends, I would really angry and worried that a person I cared was being treated so horribly.

You made a new account just to comment how misogynistic that quote was when the whole thread is about picking up women? Really? Shouldn't you be reading some tech blog complaining about the lack of diversity or women board members in Silicon Valley?

Chicks do the same thing in bed and love to play mind games. Like it has been discussed heavily in this thread, 99% of the time chicks can get laid when they want with whoever they want. This isn't a fucking one way street.

Holy shit I'm tired of everyone trying to find some sort of sexist, racist, feministic, politically incorrect angle to every damn thing someone writes online. Just one time I'd love for everyone to read something and take it at face value rather than dissect every possible angle and come up with a different interpretation than the writer clearly intended.

Or maybe I'm just too insensitive to the struggles and problems of the oppressed.

@"Jason-Rhee" you kinda have to agree with @"CorpFinanceGuy" here ... of course you want only good things around any woman you care about... and by extension for every woman in the world (coz they are all the sisters, daughters, etc. of someone somewhere)... but this logic does not really apply to men, does it? Nobody gives a fuck about guys. Even though they are discriminated against by businesses (dance clubs, bars : forced to pay cover charges while the women walk in for free) and societies (guys are "expected" to pay on dates, it is considered acceptable for women to leave a man if he cannot "provide" for her ... while simultaneously somehow believing that men & women are equal)...

anyway, long story short, each gender has its strengths and challenges.. and while I have never tried to "gain emotional control" by speaking at certain times I cannot disagree on anecdotal evidence that women like such "bad boys"...

maybe it is time for you take the blinders off and see women as who they are ... not angels who can do no wrong but merely people that have both good characteristics as well as flaws.

3/20/15

Regarding sex: :"some guys use this to gain emotional control by speaking to her while she's having orgasms. I use this actively at home by using words at the right intimate moments to create a feeling of powerful connection to me."

Yikes.... this sound extremely manipulative, misogynistic, self-centered and, obviously, controlling. While you may have some good advice, this language is incredibly concerning. If someone had that attitude toward my sister, mother, female friends and/or ex-girlfriends, I would really angry and worried that a person I cared was being treated so horribly.

3/20/15

Eventually consensual sex is gonna be considered rape thanks to faggots like you

mbavsmfin:

I don't wear watches bro. Because it's always MBA BALLER time!

3/21/15

Dude you are over thinking this whole thing. have you ever tried selling anything? it's pretty much the same: listen, use what you hear to tailor your sales pitch and go in for the kill. The only problem most men have is that they don't approach enough women. You approach 10-20 a day, 5-10% success means you are a very happy camper. I am on the road all the time and that is the approach I use and haven't spent a lonely night on the road yet. beat that with a stick

"I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. "
-GG

3/22/15

To all the twats who disagree, he is right. I am a girl and seriously, this guy summed it all up. Honestly, pretty boys can meet Elton John at the back of a loo. We care about leadership, style, and charm. The more well-rounded, the better. You don't have to be rich, just ambitious and dedicated (unless you are trying to catch a slag and not a partner). Using key words after she bursts during sex is magic, I know when its being used on me and I don't care its still so good. I hate it when educated men go for girls with an IQ the equivalent of a piece of furniture and complain about our mental competency. Fellas, I don't generally recommend going for a girl that's smarter or equally as smart, she'll break your balls and feel unsatisfied after. But, at least raise the bar a notch. All the rest was bang on too.

3/22/15

realestatefreak:

To all the twats who disagree, he is right. I am a girl and seriously, this guy summed it all up. Honestly, pretty boys can meet Elton John at the back of a loo. We care about leadership, style, and charm. The more well-rounded, the better. You don't have to be rich, just ambitious and dedicated (unless you are trying to catch a slag and not a partner). Using key words after she bursts during sex is magic, I know when its being used on me and I don't care its still so good. I hate it when educated men go for girls with an IQ the equivalent of a piece of furniture and complain about our mental competency. Fellas, I don't generally recommend going for a girl that's smarter or equally as smart, she'll break your balls and feel unsatisfied after. But, at least raise the bar a notch. All the rest was bang on too.

care to point out what some of these magic words are?

3/23/15

Personally, I don't feel comfortable going into explicit details. Small glimpse is to tell her what you had done to her and how she reacted to your 'prowess'. Play on her psychology, expose how she craved it and that you are the only one who can deliver. Women are very emotionally open after an orgasm and will lap up any trick you play. Some girls know what you are doing but it adds an emotional high after a physical one and its welcomed. Just do this with a girl you want to be with and not just a hookup, because the girl will latch on and want more. If you want any more details I advise you PM the stud who posted this topic.

3/23/15

I get the picture.. further details not required :) .. thanks... SB'ed

3/24/15

realestatefreak:

Personally, I don't feel comfortable going into explicit details. Small glimpse is to tell her what you had done to her and how she reacted to your 'prowess'. Play on her psychology, expose how she craved it and that you are the only one who can deliver. Women are very emotionally open after an orgasm and will lap up any trick you play. Some girls know what you are doing but it adds an emotional high after a physical one and its welcomed. Just do this with a girl you want to be with and not just a hookup, because the girl will latch on and want more. If you want any more details I advise you PM the stud who posted this topic.

Well said, although to be fair I can't take full credit. The concept was introduced to me by someone else and I put my own style on it.

Word of warning is that you do NOT do that recklessly. Make damn sure you know what you're doing before and that you're with someone you feel a good level of comfort with. An old Army buddy of mine failed to do that in his younger days and the result was a chick that hopped the fence around base and showed up at his barracks room in the middle of the night.

Also use it responsibly. Since I'm married and monogamous now I use to make her feel an emotional intimacy and closeness. The most descript I'll get is that I'll talk about how close we are, and how amazing our relationship is, and how we're devoted to each other, etc. Something else that's important is not to run your mouth. Just a few words or a single sentence at a time is enough.

The effect is noticeable: when I do that I usually get perks like some extra nice meals, cookies made, my suits cleaned for me, and such the next day.

3/24/15

Easy C:

... Something else that's important is not to run your mouth ..

so.. nothing along the lines of this ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJh59vZ8ccc

3/22/15

really liked the "right words" thing

3/23/15

Be genuine and do take her number when you spotted her the first time and text her to set up a date asap. 3 days rule are bullshit anyway.

3/24/15

huh

3/25/15

this whole post was a thinly veiled brag attempt ...you ever been with a real woman OP?

3/25/15

It's beautiful to see someone was actually paying attention to what I was teaching about dating. Wonderful post. I joined just to make this comment. Your post was linked on my site and not sure who you are but I'm going to do a video on this soon.

I noticed that you put my ideologies to use and now are in a relationship. Bravo!

I'm sure you will get some flack over telling the truth of dating such as women do the choosing from guys who just can't accept it. Oh well, welcome to the club..lol Don't worry about them and just let em keep ramming their heads into a wall.

Thanks for the support!
Chris aka Player Supreme

3/25/15

It's beautiful to see someone was actually paying attention to what I was teaching about dating. Wonderful post. I joined just to make this comment. Your post was linked on my site and not sure who you are but I'm going to do a video on this soon.

I noticed that you put my ideologies to use and now are in a relationship. Bravo!

I'm sure you will get some flack over telling the truth of dating such as women do the choosing from guys who just can't accept it. Oh well, welcome to the club..lol Don't worry about them and just let em keep ramming their heads into a wall.

Thanks for the support!
Chris aka Player Supreme

3/27/15

Based on the comments on this thread, I'm surprised any of you have ever gotten laid. You have zero understanding of human women. We're not that complicated.

3/28/15

This is all pre-success stuff. Once you are truly successful you can go back to the "being yourself" that is so commonly advised but works so badly for most guys.

5/9/15

+1

5/28/15

I would hire a 10/10 female as long as she could read at a fifth grade level

5/28/15

This is probably the best and most practical thread in WSO. Agree with every single point on here.

5/28/15

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