Opinions on Kellogg's MS in Management Studies (MSMS) vs. LBS & LSE
Hey guys!
Long time lurker and first post here. I was just offered acceptance to the MS in Management Studies (MSMS) program at Kellogg School of Management, and was wondering if anyone had any input on the program, and how it would compare to other more well-established Masters in Management programs. I also have an offer from the London School of Economics, and am finding it very difficult to decide on one or the other.
About me and my career goals: I'm a Canadian who is looking to break into management consulting, hopefully one of the MBB firms. Location does not really matter to me, but I'd like to stay in a big city like NYC/Chicago/London/Toronto.
I've perused a similar post from 3 years back, but I am sure that more information has come to fruition since then. Would be thankful for you guys' opinions on which of the 2 Masters of Management programs you would pick, and why (Kellogg vs. LSE).
Thanks for your help everyone!
Update: I was last-minute rejected by LBS, so it's just between LSE's MiM and Kellogg's MSMS now!
If you wamt to stay in North America, kellogg is an obvious choice.
If you're. In Europe, it's a toss up. Both are elite institutions. LSE has more alumni, and lbs would have more MBA alumni to help you there
There's absolutely no chance that Kellogg MSMS will get you to an MBB full-time offer (I also doubt that this will enable you to have an internship with one).
LSE's and LBS' MiM are full-target programs for MBB in Europe. Their brandname would even get you interviews at BCG's Swiss offices.
Location is not the point at all here. These programs may have similar epithets, but their aim and reach are way different. If LSE's Msc is a 2-year program, go for it (think summer internship in London to strengthen your profile). Otherwise, go to LBS.
I honestly think you'd be deeply disappointed by what Kellogg's MSMS has to offer.
Hope that helped.
As someone also considering enrolling in Kellogg's MSMS, can you explain why you think OP would be disappointed? My goal is MBB
Fairly simple. My statements come from heavy LinkedIn data gathering over the years. The Master in Management concept itself (Duke MMS, Kellogg MSMS, Michigan Ross MM) in the US greatly differs from what it stands for in Europe.
US MiM obviously don't have the capabilities of placing a student who went to a non-target undegraduate at an MBB. Their Career Facts/Employment reports are clearly indicating that.
The only student who got an offer from McKinsey (NYC office) Duke MMS '15 class was an Indian student who already worked at McKinsey (Indian office) in her home country for 2 full years.
You'll always have a Havard/Princeton/Yale/Brown graduate who already holds strong undergraduate internships, and who could have gotten the MBB gig out of undergrad in the first place.
It's been said and said again on this forum. Just do your due diligence and don't lie to yourself (don't be in denial). I know the Kellogg's brandname is sexy because of its MBA. But in the US, one has to know that MBB only recruit from target undergraduate programs and MBA programs.
US MM (Kellogg, Duke, Michigan Ross) can get you into consulting; sure; absolutely no doubt about that. But think Deloitte, Accenture.
The MBB firms have already a hard time screening candidates that come from top UG and MBA programs. The bottome line is: the MiM brand, what it stands for, its reputation +++, is too underdeveloped on the american job market. It's NOT the way to go for MBB.
It can get you better job prospects, can help you switch careers, go into finance and consulting, but thinking it's a good strategy for MBB is just ignoring the obvious.
For heaven's sake, even LBS MiM, which is a European MiM, can't help you get into MBB if you've not attended a target school as an undergrad (officially confirmed by an admission officer).
You can notice a two-tier career stratum when comparing the few top-US MiM and the top European MiM. The former have PepsiCo., Red Ventures, Burger King, as top employers, the later get you to Evercore, Bain, and Goldman.
One has to be extremely serious when evaluating the strength of a program of getting you where you want to end up. The preparation, research, has to go far beyond brandname and reputation of the school (which often has an array of non-hegemonic non-equivalent graduate programs).
Disclaimer: I have submitted my deposit for Kellogg's MSMS this Fall. That being said, I am curious as to whether you have applied to any of the US programs?
I am having a hard time believing your extreme statements. Have you looked at the fact that Kellogg's MSMS have actually listed Bain and BCG as employers of their students? Also, it is an utter fallacy to ignore the value of Kellogg's MBA alumni network, especially when considering MBB, would you not agree?
I do believe that prior experience matters of course, but in exclusive terms of networking opportunities and doors opened at the big firms, Kellogg should do a good job at worst. Not to mention the pairing with the 1YR MBA.
(First of all, congratulations for your admission. I sincerely hope that the program will lead you to your most-wanted aspirations.)
Actually, I plan to apply for the 3 US MiM, but for other reasons than getting into the Tier1 Consulting Firms (M,B,B) (for that, I'd rather chose LBS and LSE).
I'm not here to preach anything. Indeed, just like you, I try to be as serious as possible when considering the proper channels that would hopefully lead me to reach my goals, in terms of occupation. We all do.
So let's be collaborative here, not confrontational. :) I'm not a saint. I don't pretend to know the divine truth. I'm well aware I might be wrong on certain points.
But I just want to emphasis the fact that my so-called statements come from a total neutral analysis of career outcome for these programs. Meaning, I'm not attending any MiM (US nor Europe) at the moment. But the fact that these are very costly, and that most of us here are legitimately (for the most of us, at least) heavily interested in joining MBB and GS/JPM/MS, I do want to tell the harsh actual results and to be as clairvoyant when assessing the strength of a program as the AdComs are when they're reviewing our applications.
Here's the link to Kellogg's MSMS Employers. As you can see for yourself, there's no sign of Bain nor BCG on this list. If you came accross another webpage where they are listed, I'd be extremely happy if you could share that with me. In fact, just as you, I'd be happy to have that information, i.e., to actually be reassured that there's indeed a chance of breaking into MBB when you graduate from such a program.
For the Networking part. I agree 100% that Kellogg may have one of the strongest alumni networks out there. It vastly outshines the European business schools, for example. No doubt about that.
But you have to be aware that the way MBB (and BB too) are very specific in the way: (1) - they screen resumes for 1st interview callback; (2) - they offer a graduate a full-time position.
For example, when the MiM is a 1-year program, I hardly see how an MiM graduate could be offered a full-time position at an MBB, because you have to precisely have done a summer internship there before that, to be even considered for a full-time hiring.
That's why, logically, as I expected, when I did my years-long LinkedIn due diligence, every US MiM grad who got into BCG or McKinsey (only Fuqua MMS:FOB so far), had already a BCG internship (done during UG) under his belt even before joining the program.
And then, the school's staff is happy to show off on the employment report that their MiM program is a feeder one for MBB (at London Business School, they're the pros of doing that). when in fact, it clearly isn't.
Same goes for international mobility. When a school shows you a map and tells on its website that the graduates go to work in various countries, in conservatively 80% of the cases, it's just international students that go back to their home countries (because they couldn't crack into the school's country job market).
Again, I highly encourage every prospective MiM student, to actuamly be a businessman when it comes to selecting the right program: Do your research, talk to real employees of the school, talk to former students of the program, target the graduate school fairs.
I took part in the latest Michigan Ross MM webinar. I can tell you with 100% accuracy that it's the worst possible choice for someone wishing to break into BB IBD, MBB consulting, or any other highly prestigeous jobs out there.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong, really, because I think US MiM should create a real alternative to the traditional US MBA But it has to be done with logic.
Lastly, you mentioned possibly pursuing the 1-year Kellogg MBA afterwards. It's a whole other story. You enroll into a totally different program (not successively, but after a couple of years), with a different aim. It's a grounded, highly-recognized program in the field. It's the norm in the US. Just compare the list of employers for the MBA to its MMS counterpart. Completely in a different league.
The 1-year Kellogg MBA post-MMS would grant you the same opportunities as the 2-year MBA with no prior MMS.
Former Kellogg MSMS student here and I agree with @Starfall". Message me for more info
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